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[Richard230]

Here is a long, but interesting article that was in my newspaper today regarding the tough future for gas stations in California when EV's become even more abundant than they already are. Apparently many of the independent gas station owners are dreading the future, especially after 2035 when nothing but new zero-emission vehicles will be sold.  Attached is page one of the article.

[Richard230]

Here is page 2.

[MVetter]

Dang they've only got... *checks complex math* ... like 12 years to figure out how to adapt how can anyone expect to survive this madness?

[DonTom]

Here is a long, but interesting article that was in my newspaper today regarding the tough future for gas stations in California when EV's become even more abundant than they already are. Apparently many of the independent gas station owners are dreading the future, especially after 2035 when nothing but new zero-emission vehicles will be sold.  Attached is page one of the article.

i expect there to be a lot of ICE vehicles sold just before 2035.  For years after 2035, I think there will still be mostly ICE vehicles on the road.


OTOH, I wonder how many EVs would be in CA right now if Tesla could keep up.




-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Ashveratu]

A gas stations biggest profit margin is usually on the food and other goods it offers vs gas. Some stations actually start to go negative on gas profits when prices spike to help keep customer cost lower.

Station owners already have an alternative laid out for them, start installing DC chargers and have a nice area where customers can chill and have a snack/meal.

[Richard230]

A gas stations biggest profit margin is usually on the food and other goods it offers vs gas. Some stations actually start to go negative on gas profits when prices spike to help keep customer cost lower.

Station owners already have an alternative laid out for them, start installing DC chargers and have a nice area where customers can chill and have a snack/meal.

While most gas stations that I have seen do have a "mini-market" store attached to the station, most (but certainly not all) are not places where most people would want to hang out for more than the few minutes it takes to pay their gasoline bill (many stations, especially along major highways, will no longer let you pay at the pump) and use the bathroom, which may make you beg for the bathroom key. The independent gas station owners that are the subject of the article, really don't want to invest any more than just enough to keep their business open and my thought is that only the big operators who own multiple stations and maybe the Big Oil-owned stations (once they come to their senses) will want to invest in charging station infrastructure and establish a decent waiting area for their customers while recharging their EV's.  Right now I am not seeing a trend in that direction.
Time will tell.

[Fran K]

A gas stations biggest profit margin is usually on the food and other goods it offers vs gas. Some stations actually start to go negative on gas profits when prices spike to help keep customer cost lower.

Station owners already have an alternative laid out for them, start installing DC chargers and have a nice area where customers can chill and have a snack/meal.

I see the word some.  Costco gas is 2.99.9 for 87 (r+m)/2 yesterday every other station I see has instantly gone up 20 to 30 cents due to the opec+ announcement.  I think strong profits exist with price fluctuation.   I don't know the mark up difference for high test like maybe 91 octane or so.  It was 3.97.9 like 98 cents more I would guess some motorcycles use that.

[Richard230]

My newspaper reported that Costco gas prices went up 90 cents a gallon in the SF Bay Area last week.  I think regular fuel is selling for around $6.50 a gallon at Costco earlier this week. Oddly, not all Costco stations sell gas at the same price. It seems to depend upon the local market. 

[DonTom]

(many stations, especially along major highways, will no longer let you pay at the pump)

I have yet to see that anywhere. But perhaps that is because it isn't often that I buy gas these days. Five EVs mean I don't have to get gas often. But still, most of my vehicles are ICE.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Richard230]

(many stations, especially along major highways, will no longer let you pay at the pump)

I have yet to see that anywhere. But perhaps that is because it isn't often that I buy gas these days. Five EVs mean I don't have to get gas often. But still, most of my vehicles are ICE.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

I made a mistake about not paying at the pump, I was thinking of getting a receipt.   

All of the gas stations that I visit let you pump your own gas and pay at the pump, of course. But if you try to obtain a receipt, which is something that I always want for my records, many of them have a message that says to go into the store to obtain the receipt.     A time waster for me. When buying gas I want to spend as little time a possible there and get back on the road again.

[DonTom]

I made a mistake about not paying at the pump, I was thinking of getting a receipt.   

All of the gas stations that I visit let you pump your own gas and pay at the pump, of course. But if you try to obtain a receipt, which is something that I always want for my records, many of them have a message that says to go into the store to obtain the receipt.     A time waster for me. When buying gas I want to spend as little time a possible there and get back on the road again.

Keeping such records is the time waster. I have never wanted a receipt at a gas station. If you use a CC or debit card, you will have as good as the receipt anyway.


Come to think of it, I don't think any of the charge stations I have used can even print out a receipt. But most CCS charge stations can email you one as well as many J-1772 stations.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[flynnstig82r]

The biggest problem with DCFC's at gas stations is that they're not pleasant places to hang out. Lots of traffic coming through, impatient people, and drab surroundings. People want to charge at a coffee shop, a park, or while getting a bite to eat, not at a place zoned for hazardous storage tanks that is deliberately located at the farthest ends of shopping centers, pushed away from shopping destinations that don't want to be right next to the noise and unsightliness. Gas stations are designed to stop for 3-5 mins and maybe pick up a quick item or use the bathroom, they're not a good fit for longer stays.

[DonTom]

The biggest problem with DCFC's at gas stations is that they're not pleasant places to hang out. Lots of traffic coming through, impatient people, and drab surroundings. People want to charge at a coffee shop, a park, or while getting a bite to eat, not at a place zoned for hazardous storage tanks that is deliberately located at the farthest ends of shopping centers, pushed away from shopping destinations that don't want to be right next to the noise and unsightliness. Gas stations are designed to stop for 3-5 mins and maybe pick up a quick item or use the bathroom, they're not a good fit for longer stays.

Perhaps where you're located. I find CCS mostly at gas stations that have snack shops and a john. And nice shady locations.


Other than my free CCS  fast charge at Donnor Summit Rest Area, my favorite CCS Charge stop is at Cisco Grove. Store, John, Subway Sandwich shop and a nice shady park with picnic tables with a short hike over the bridge on I-80. Also, the one at the Shell Gas Station in Soda Springs is nice. Burger King there as well as a Pizza place (but not always open). That's just a few miles to the east of Cisco Grove.


There sure are a lot of CCS stations between my Reno and Auburn house. No matter which way I go.  Most of them are in great locations, IMO.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Richard230]

The biggest problem with DCFC's at gas stations is that they're not pleasant places to hang out. Lots of traffic coming through, impatient people, and drab surroundings. People want to charge at a coffee shop, a park, or while getting a bite to eat, not at a place zoned for hazardous storage tanks that is deliberately located at the farthest ends of shopping centers, pushed away from shopping destinations that don't want to be right next to the noise and unsightliness. Gas stations are designed to stop for 3-5 mins and maybe pick up a quick item or use the bathroom, they're not a good fit for longer stays.

+1.  That is exactly the way that I feel too, based upon all of the gas stations that I have visited. I have never seen the type of gas stations that Don frequents. I am sure they exist, but in my 60 years of riding motorcycles I have only seen one or two like that. Most are exactly the way that you describe them.

A very large number of people in the SF Bay Area fill up their ICE vehicles at Costco gas stations, resulting in long lines with seemingly 50 cars in the line waiting for their few minutes at a gas pump, nonstop day and night. It is hard for me to imagine a similar scenario at a future Costco with rows of inexpensive CCS charging stations. 

[DonTom]

+1.  That is exactly the way that I feel too, based upon all of the gas stations that I have visited. I have never seen the type of gas stations that Don frequents.

I wouldn't expect much in the SF Bay Area. Just too crowded and not much room for much of anything.  Things are a bit different up here in the mountains where I do most of my charging, regardless if CCS of J-1772.


-Don-  Auburn, CA