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[Moto7575]

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries

[MVetter]

To save the people who aren't as technically minded, this is all stuff we already knew. For best practices, try to keep your battery above 20% and below 80% SoC for any extended periods of time. It's ok to charge to full and bring it down to empty, but try to burn it down below 80 or charge it back above 20 as soon as possible. Don't store it full or empty in a hot environment, as this accelerates degradation. This is no surprise because the batteries are all chemical reactions, and heat makes things react more 'cause it's all excited and whatnot.

You should also know that the cells in Zero's bikes are already soft-capped, voltage-wise. They mention in the article as 4.2vdc being the 100% value. Zero's cap is 4.157vdc, so automatically they are increasing the longevity of the cell with those parameters.

[wadejesu]

I just want to know if it will hurt anything if I ride it daily and when finished plug it in and leave it till am. which means it would still be plugged for 6-8 hours after it's fully charged.

[MVetter]

I just want to know if it will hurt anything if I ride it daily and when finished plug it in and leave it till am. which means it would still be plugged for 6-8 hours after it's fully charged.

You will almost certainly see a longer life out of your battery if you set the charge target to like 80%. If you need the full 100% for your commute you could then tell it to top up as soon as you wake up then do your morning routine as it finishes.

However that's just a pain in the ass in practice and will quickly make you more likely to resent your bike. So while I'd say you're not actively hurting it, you could probably get more than what Zero advertises if you cap it at 80%.

[ESokoloff]

I just want to know if it will hurt anything if I ride it daily and when finished plug it in and leave it till am. which means it would still be plugged for 6-8 hours after it's fully charged.

I installed a 2”x4” electrical J-box in-line on a charge cord.
I put a 0-6hr spring wound timer in the box & figured 10% SOC/hr or charging. 

This worked pretty well but I improved it by installing a slightly oversized plastic/water resistant electrical box & crammed in a 0-4hr spring wound timer as well as a (pre-selected 3hr electric timer.
Via a DPDT toggle switch I can configure for 0-4hr, 0-7hr, or continuous charge.
I also fabricated a short cord leaving this project box & installed a right angled plug that is inserted into the bikes charge port so I never have to unplug it, just the male plug into the wall socket. 
I limit my SOC to 70% for my daily commute. 

[Moto7575]

Not really : the curve on ideal state of charge tells that 75-65 is optimal, informations are structured and fact based. To be fair one analysis is missing : what is the best charging cycle per kilometer - taking twice the number of cycles to age if you do half the number of kilometers per cycle is not really interesting !

To save the people who aren't as technically minded, this is all stuff we already knew. For best practices, try to keep your battery above 20% and below 80% SoC for any extended periods of time. It's ok to charge to full and bring it down to empty, but try to burn it down below 80 or charge it back above 20 as soon as possible. Don't store it full or empty in a hot environment, as this accelerates degradation. This is no surprise because the batteries are all chemical reactions, and heat makes things react more 'cause it's all excited and whatnot.

You should also know that the cells in Zero's bikes are already soft-capped, voltage-wise. They mention in the article as 4.2vdc being the 100% value. Zero's cap is 4.157vdc, so automatically they are increasing the longevity of the cell with those parameters.

[DonTom]

You will almost certainly see a longer life out of your battery if you set the charge target to like 80%. .

How are the cells ever going to balance?


And why does Energica say right on the screen to let it finish charging when you're at ~80% SOC?


-Don-  Reno, NV

[MVetter]

How are the cells ever going to balance?

Do a balance charge every other month or so.

And why does Energica say right on the screen to let it finish charging when you're at ~80% SOC?

Clearly you haven't read it. It's pure Google Translate Italian. I can't remember the exact wording off the top of my head but it's something like, "In order to enable balance sequence it is suggested to do not disconnect..."

How it *should* read is more along the lines of, "If you would like the batteries to balance, we suggest you do not disconnect..."

[Moto7575]

Do zero balance if you keep it connected at 80% ?
Also what is you view on the optimal cycle (60-75 for small commuter as myself seem better than 20-80)?

How are the cells ever going to balance?

Do a balance charge every other month or so.

And why does Energica say right on the screen to let it finish charging when you're at ~80% SOC?

Clearly you haven't read it. It's pure Google Translate Italian. I can't remember the exact wording off the top of my head but it's something like, "In order to enable balance sequence it is suggested to do not disconnect..."

How it *should* read is more along the lines of, "If you would like the batteries to balance, we suggest you do not disconnect..."

[MVetter]

Last I checked Zero bikes entered a balance sequence above 110vdc aka ~80%.

As far as your second question, the closer you can keep the pack overall to about 50% the happier it will be. If you can keep it almost always between 40-60% then oh my god it will last exponentially longer than someone who is delving significantly deeper into the pack.

[Moto7575]

Thanks a lot ! Do you have a study supporting this and comparing many charge cycle options ? I would like to know what i save to see if it is woth doing it !

Last I checked Zero bikes entered a balance sequence above 110vdc aka ~80%.

As far as your second question, the closer you can keep the pack overall to about 50% the happier it will be. If you can keep it almost always between 40-60% then oh my god it will last exponentially longer than someone who is delving significantly deeper into the pack.

[wadejesu]

If you have an FXS 70-80% is not going to get you very far, that's only about 40 miles vs 60 at 100%

[JaimeC]

If you have an FXS 70-80% is not going to get you very far, that's only about 40 miles vs 60 at 100%

And that's the primary reason I never even considered an FX-series bike.  I would've stayed with the "S" until Zero inexplicably decided the US would only get that model with the 7.2kWh battery DESPITE still selling the 14.4kWh version in Europe...

[MVetter]

Thanks a lot ! Do you have a study supporting this and comparing many charge cycle options ? I would like to know what i save to see if it is woth doing it !

I mean... you can literally cite tables 2 and 4 from the original study you linked for confirmation. Just apply the data to a Zero pouch and extrapolate that into pack values. For example, in Table 4, take any of the cell voltage values and multiply them by 28, because Zero packs are in a 28S configuration.

4.2 x 28 = 117.6 <-- this is beyond Zero's allowed voltage. They soft cap their cells at 4.157vdc
4.15 x 28 = 116.2 <-- basically 98% on a Zero
...
...
3.9 x 28 = 109.2 <-- ~79% on a Zero
3.65 x 28 = 102.2 <-- 50% on a Zero
...
...
all the way down to
3.39 x 28 = 94.92 <-- empty Zero

[DonTom]

How are the cells ever going to balance?

Do a balance charge every other month or so.

And why does Energica say right on the screen to let it finish charging when you're at ~80% SOC?

Clearly you haven't read it. It's pure Google Translate Italian. I can't remember the exact wording off the top of my head but it's something like, "In order to enable balance sequence it is suggested to do not disconnect..."

How it *should* read is more along the lines of, "If you would like the batteries to balance, we suggest you do not disconnect..."

It's more like "It is suggested to NOT disconnect until charge is completed". Next time I see it, I will write down the exact words. FWIW, I usually disconnect at around 90% SOC to make sure I can make it to Reno from Cisco Grove or vice versa. 80% will cause some range anxiety, but I would most likely make it, but I can ride faster with no worries at 90% SOC (11.7 KWH battery).


I assume my new Experica with the 22KWH battery can make the 99.0-mile hilly trip on a home charge as long as I don't go too fast.



-Don-  Reno, NV