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[Fred]

If you don't think what you're getting for your money is good value then that's fine. Fair enough. But don't get worked up over how that purchase is delivered to you.

If the hardware is installed you have paid for it. Removing extra hardware at point of manufacture would reduce the cost of making the bike.

No.

1. It's not yours if you haven't paid for it.
2. Let's say the hardware costs $100 and it costs $200 per bike to have a branch in the production line where the bikes are manufactured differently - then it's cheaper to fit them to all. It may make the bikes cheaper and be a way for Zero to reduce prices. I don't know Zero's numbers, but for many products it does work out better this way.

Obviously, Zero's prices have gone up. It's fair enough to complain about that. Maybe it's the same supply chain pressures that everyone's facing and the bikes would be even more expensive without this trick. Maybe it's Zero beeing greedy. I have no idea.

[DonTom]

er and be a way for Zero to reduce prices. I don't know Zero's numbers, but for many products it does work out better this way.

Obviously, Zero's prices have gone up. It's fair enough to complain about that. Maybe it's the same supply chain pressures that everyone's facing and the bikes would be even more expensive without this trick. Maybe it's Zero beeing greedy. I have no idea.

I don't think the prices went up as much as the value of our dollars went down. We would see how cheap Zeros really are if we could pay with gasoline instead of cash and then compare to a few years back.


-Don- Cisco Grove, CA (Charging 2017 Zero SR at 8.0 KW)

[DonTom]

If a part is installed on the bike you buy, you have paid for the part. If you have paid for a part it should function.

But you have not paid for the software to make it function.


I think I see more advantages than disadvantages of this new way. But it's really not that new. Tesla has been doing it for years with their 6K$ autopilot.


Installing software is usually easier than installing the hardware.



-Don- Auburn, CA

[Skidz]

Tesla has been doing it for years with their 6K$ autopilot.

Well yes, and no. The computer is not just for FSD, it's for a lot of other things. You pay for the development of an extra software package. Think of it as your home computer. When you buy it with a decent operating system, or with Windows (Sorry, couldn't resist) you can do basic stuff like browsing and email. But if you want to use the computer for, let's say, flying a simulator you'll have to pay for the software. I think $6k is a bit steep for what you get but they can ask what they want and as long as it works, it works.
In this case it's more than just software; it's disabled hardware. Tesla used that to bring the price of the M3 SR down below an incentive threshold, but when that went south they changed their ways. In this case, they give you a 15.6kWh battery but really it's a 17.1kWh battery and for a price you get the extra 1.5kWh. The charger is a 6kW model but you get 3kW and for a price, you get the full 6kW.

This brings up a nice point for the buyers; If a company advances in technology, and you buy that technology, you'd expect to be able to use that technology. But now the company sells you the new tech, but allows you to use it like it's old tech until you pay extra. Would you buy the bike for a higher price if all the premium features were enabled? And, if these features are enabled, are they enabled for the bike retaining a resale value or only for the owner, losing the features when selling the bike?

IMHO, Zero is doing nothing wrong business wise but it feels wrong. You buy it, you use it. All of it. And if it costs more, it costs more.

[Richard230]

As I have said before, motorcycle enthusiasts are a very conservative bunch - especially compared with Tesla buyers. This type of marketing is just not going to fly with most current motorcycle owners, especially when they are dipping their toes into EV from ICE. Once the word gets out about how Zero is selling their bikes with advertised features that will need to be "unlocked" for a fee, buyers will be staying away from Zero motorcycles in droves and heading toward LiveWires, Energica (if they have the money) or other lower-priced brands in the future. If dealers are going to fully inform their potential customers regarding the various models, prices and upgrades being offered by Zero, it will send their customer's heads spinning. Frankly, I just don't see their sales increasing in the future if Zero continues along this marketing path. 

[DonTom]

As I have said before, motorcycle enthusiasts are a very conservative bunch - especially compared with Tesla buyers. This type of marketing is just not going to fly with most current motorcycle owners, especially when they are dipping their toes into EV from ICE. Once the word gets out about how Zero is selling their bikes with advertised features that will need to be "unlocked" for a fee, buyers will be staying away from Zero motorcycles in droves and heading toward LiveWires, Energica (if they have the money) or other lower-priced brands in the future. If dealers are going to fully inform their potential customers regarding the various models, prices and upgrades being offered by Zero, it will send their customer's heads spinning. Frankly, I just don't see their sales increasing in the future if Zero continues along this marketing path. 

The way I see it, is if they advertise it correctly, there is no real issue. As long as new buyers know what the price includes, there is no issue.


I guess we will have to wait and see how it all works out for Zero.  If I were to buy a Zero, this would not bother me a bit.


-Don-  Auburn, CA