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[princec]

It appears to be somewhat higher quality than the FXE, on a par with the CE04, and it's got reasonable charging facilities built in compared to the useless OBC in the Zero. I think it's nice that there's another option out there, but not so nice that it doesn't really move the game on in any particularly meaningful direction.

Cas

[TheRan]

I think the range of the larger battery compared to the Zeros is partly offset by the greater weight and drivetrain losses. I can't remember where I downloaded the specs to check the number on the Pulse but the max "city" range on the website is 100 miles versus 105 for the FXE. Of course it might not be the exact same testing procedure and manufacturers like to inflate the numbers but you'd expect a bigger difference for that difference in capacity.

Yeah it does have a bigger battery and faster charging, all I'm saying is I don't think that justifies the extra money. You could also point to the technology improvements with the dash and connectivity, but in that case there's better suspension on the Zeros.

[Nairb]

At the 7:20 point of this new German language video they mention the press meeting with the CEO & management where they say they're also working on two more "secret" bikes for the future.  The press event was held in June on pre-production units.  Turn on cc then in settings turn on auto generated english.  Maybe they'll be bigger versions of these; ie. an SRS type non-naked street bike and DSRX/Experia type tourer with double the battery & NACS DC charging fully utilizing the liquid cooling.  Or maybe they'll be a moped and a big trike;) 

But perhaps a stripped down off road dirt bike version of the Origin could be a good one for the future, which might get them more sales at lower prices/costs given fortnine's glowing take on the off-road riding experience with that swing arm...  take off most of the electronics, ABS, lights & fairings, put on a light weight seat & rear fender, dirt bike fork & high fender, smaller dirt bike size wheels & tires, and put the charger/inverter in an accessory stand like the Varg.

[TheRan]

From the "x-ray" images they have on the website it doesn't really look like they'd have the room for more battery, and it's all tightly integrated into one big enclosed unit. I don't think it's really Can-am style but the logical addition would be a sport bike, a Pulse with a full fairing.

[Nairb]

Was just thinking it could be a double wide battery pack version based on this design.  Presumably this current pack is made up of two columns of horizontally stacked 2170's, so ~140mm width of just battery, plus casing & connectors, etc, perhaps making this pack on it's own 20cm wide, or 25.  Or perhaps it's 3 columns wide & thus more like 25-28cm including casing etc. If they made a four column wide version maybe it would end up 45cm wide, which maybe isn't far off the width of a DSR or Experia pack width...   or a six column wide version. That's all I was thinking

[TheRan]

Is it using 21700s? That doesn't seem the best choice for liquid cooling. From the images it looks like one block about the size of a Zero 7.2 pack rotated almost horizontal and then another on top around half that length with the charger behind it. I assumed there are pouch cells inside.

[Nairb]

One of their teaser videos from a month or two ago shows cylindrical cells, and one might also explicitly say 2170's.  I recall seeing a video from a couple years ago of a prototype battery pack that had the cylindrical cells in a pack with liquid coolant running right through the pack instead of in channels or plates adjacent to the cells like most car manufactures are doing.  It wasn't Can-Am displaying this I don't think (at some trade/tech show I think) but it was about the size of a motorcycle pack, or maybe the presenter even said it was for electric motorcycles, can't recall.  Can-Am's animations of the cooling running through the pack look kind of like this.  They show digital blue-ish liquid kind of flowing through the pack and into the motor.

[Nairb]

This isn't the video I'd seen (was maybe a trade show walk through on Munro live, Out of Spec, or maybe even Linus Tech Tips), but is the same concept, just more recent.



EDIT:  Maybe it was this Munro live Faraday Future video...



Similar here at 14 minutes in on a university design race bike.  16kWh, 400V

[TheRan]

In that case it probably wouldn't be too hard for them to pull the charger out and up the pack to like 10-11kW/h and then move the charger up to the tank area, make that a little larger for some more wind protection like a proper adventure bike.

[Nairb]

I believe the charger and inverter are already up at the top/tank area and upper sides, only the plug inlet is down low
See 1:30 here:



and at 40 seconds in here:

[Specter]

Be interested to know what the cooling is.
Glycol alone aint too good,  mix with water, unless the water is DI, it will conduct, and unfortunately DI picks up all sorts of ions and crap and really wants to start conducting... badly.  We use liquid cooling on the inverters at the power plant,  it's basically a 10,000 HP vfd for starting the generators, and have all sorts of filtration to keep the water ultra pure so it won't conduct electricity.  Putting a system on a bike is really unfeasable.

Still, it also seems many are VERY close with a solid state battery,so the chem batts may quickly become a thing of the past.  Interesting times we live in!  Lets hope we don't blow ourselves up in the meantime.

aaron

[Nairb]

It's being used in computer servers too


Edit, This HP vid isn't about immersion type cooling...

[princec]

So surely they'll use a dielectric liquid of some sort, on account of not needing very much of it? eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoroether

Cas

[Fran K]

....
Yeah it does have a bigger battery and faster charging, all I'm saying is I don't think that justifies the extra money. You could also point to the technology improvements with the dash and connectivity, but in that case there's better suspension on the Zeros.

How do we know which suspention is better? Zero fx fxe 41mm forks, Can am 43mm forks.  The Zero fx shock was like $450 from Zero a few years ago not sure about now but it is unlikely it is very good.  Considering the price of the vehicle.  And you can't be absolutely sure what Zero is using by the time this one is available without a pre order deal.  Travel on the adventure ish one an inch or more in excess of the fx value.  The Can am one actually looks like you could rub against stuff.  10 inches of travel and 10.8 inches of ground clearance  It sure will help being narrow.

[Nairb]

haven't found any BRP related immersive battery cooling or dielectric fluid related patents just yet, but they are hiring for a fair number of engineers, technicians, and designers for their "electric vehicle and propulsion development team"

https://careers.brp.com/electric


also, their 2021 press release about investing $300M to electrify all their product lines:

https://ir.brp.com/news-releases/news-release-details/brp-introduce-electric-models-each-its-product-lines-end-2026