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[Richard230]

I have a friend that wants to discuss electric cars this weekend (gasoline prices in the SF Bay Area are now at $6 a gallon for 87 octane) and I know he is going to ask about the cost of charging at commercial L2 and L3 stations in the U.S.. Since I have never owned any EV other than a Zero that charges at 120V, I don't know how to answer that question.   

Do you need to subscribe to a commercial RV charging company or can you just go to any charging station and pay with a Visa or MasterCard? Do they charge by the KWh or by the minute? What are typical costs to use the charging facilities? Thanks for any observations that you can provide.

[Curt]

I've been charging my 60kWh (now 66kWh after battery replacement) Chevy Bolt EV on the occasional road trip, almost exclusively at Electrify America L3 stations where I pay $4/mo to get a preferred rate of $0.31/kWh resulting in a typical charge from 20% to 80% taking 75 minutes and costing around $14. It can be a trial to get an EA station to start charging, but they're the cheapest and most abundant.

Generally, you must already be signed up for whatever charge network you plan to plug into, or at least have installed their app, which you may or may not be able to do on the spot. You create an account and deposit an amount which gets refreshed whenever it runs low (similar to the way FasTrak works). Several companies (e.g. ChargePoint) will send you an RFID card you can simply swipe.

L2 stations are useful at home and at the office, but not often when traveling. Sometimes you can luck out and the hotel has one, or you may be able to park near a school or government office. Good ones aren't common. Those that are not free are typically overpriced. Some are in paid lots or garages, and hours can be limited to daytime or business hours.

[staples]

If he's concerned with EV cars in the US then the next question is Tesla or other?

I'm unable to find any published costs for Tesla Superchargers, and they do vary by state. On a recent road trip (in December) in my Model Y, it was approximately the same cost as it would have been with my previous Prius at 40mpg to drive from Chicago to California. I'm guessing it might be a bit cheaper now that gas has gone up.

For others, as an example of L3 costs, you can look at the costs on EA's site by state: https://www.electrifyamerica.com/pricing/

Public L2 is probably cheaper but not really fast enough to consider for long distances or significant car charging. Depending on the location and station it could be free like many Volta stations in grocery parking lots, and similar. But you'd probably only be getting 6kW or so.

Generally if you fast charging you are not really going to save much over gas. The true savings come from charging at home overnight.

[Richard230]

My friend has been interested in the Chevy Bolt, but knowing him I am sure that he would do a lot of research before deciding on a particular model. He doesn't seem interested in Teslas.

I wonder when it will be possible to just show up at any charging station and pay with a credit card as you do at a gas station?

[HoodRichOG]

I think some stations allow that and for sure all of electrify america network has credit card readers.

[ultrarnr]

You can find the cost of Tesla Supercharges are sometimes listed on Plugshare. Prices vary from state to state and in some case by time of day. The Supercharger in Springfield VA charges $0.34 /kWh from noon-7pm. The rest of the time it is only $0.14/kWh.

[Richard230]

It is starting to sound like you really need a playbook to understand how the EV charging network functions, especially if you want to reduce the hit on your pocketbook. Personally, I don't think much about needing to subscribe to a commercial company before you can use their facilities, or at least receive a lower power rate. If the government wants everyone to eventually buy and drive electric vehicles they should standardize charging systems and their power connectors. Keep in mind that in the U.S. they don't do a very good job of teaching math and no secondary school teaches students how to manage a budget, so I don't imagine that the general (voting) public is going to enjoy navigating different charging systems and their requirements in the long run.

One additional comment: I bet Tesla Superstations cost a lot more than $0.34/kWh in California as that is what I pay for my home electric power cost at the lowest rate offered by my utility company.   

Thank you for your comments. I found them informative. I now have something more interesting to discuss over our Sunday breakfast at Alice's Restaurant than the high cost of state taxes and gas prices. 

[ultrarnr]

Richard, I thought I was giving an example of the expensive Superchargers! That must be some really high quality electricity you have out there if they are charging you that much for it.

[DonTom]

I have a friend that wants to discuss electric cars this weekend (gasoline prices in the SF Bay Area are now at $6 a gallon for 87 octane) and I know he is going to ask about the cost of charging at commercial L2 and L3 stations in the U.S.. Since I have never owned any EV other than a Zero that charges at 120V, I don't know how to answer that question.   

Do you need to subscribe to a commercial RV charging company or can you just go to any charging station and pay with a Visa or MasterCard? Do they charge by the KWh or by the minute? What are typical costs to use the charging facilities? Thanks for any observations that you can provide.

The answer to all those questions vary greatly. A CCS fast charge or a CAHdeMO charge can be from anywhere from free to being MORE expensive than gasoline.  Sometimes they are close distance to each other.  For an example,  Donner Summit Fast charging is FREE.  Truckee, CA charging can be very expensive.


Most J-1772 charging in the Reno area (by far) is free. But again, expensive in Truckee, CA. Free in Colfax, CA at the train station.


Most fast DC chargers and J-1772 can be activated by a phone call. Some have a card, some don't. Often, The Electrify America (the ones at Wal*Mart cannot be activated  by a card--but some others at other Wall*Marts can be activated by a credit card on the charge station). Same brand, same everything, except how it works and the price. I assume even the ones that do not have a card you can use a phone and then use a credit card. But that I have never tried.


I took my Zero SR to Yerington, NV  a few days ago to check out their four new J-1772 charge stations. The first hour cost five bucks, regardless if it's one KW or 7 KW charging rate. Drops to $1.00 per hour after that first hour. 


At Virginia City, they have a 8KW J-1772, no card needed, just plug in for free. Always on and hot, ready top go. More power available for FREE to anybody at all.


If you own a Tesla, you need no card for any Tesla chargers of any type. All Tesla owners MUST have a Tesla account that takes care of it all. Plug in and walk away. The only button to press is at the end of the charge cable to open your charge door via wireless. That is as simple as it can be.

But it is best to have at least a ChargePoint card for CA and NV. Any EV can slow charge with J-1772, your motorcycle, a Tesla, or anything else. An adapter is needed for Tesla. My 2018 Tesla M3, came with it and several other adapters.


So pick your own answers as it all varies that much.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Richard230]

Well, that is enough information to make my head spin.    Thanks, Dom for the info.

[DonTom]

Well, that is enough information to make my head spin.    Thanks, Tom for the info.

Well, I am Don. Tom was my same-sex mate (legally married since legal in 2012) for 43 years, but Tom  died of cancer in 2016, which was a few months before I owned any EV of any type and I was not yet in this forum.


But yeah, there is a learning curve WRT charging and you have to check out each one individually. But my link to PlugShare shows most of  what one needs to know.


But it is NOT necessary to look at Plugshare with a Tesla. Simply turn on the mic and say "Navigate  to Supercharger"  and all the Superchargers in the area show on the screen. You can also ask for other types of chargers.


I mentioned there is ONE standard. AC Charging, (includes J-1772). It's just slow, usually 7KW, but sometimes more and sometimes less. Each charge station says it rating right on the box or charge screen.  It is OKAY to plug in a 12KW car charger into a 6KW charge station (in most cases--me being an exception with my older Zeros) because the "pilot signal" from the charge station tells the EV charger to reduce it's power to whatever the charge station can handle).


Since my weird setup does NOT use a pilot signal (and I often charge my 2017 Zero SR at 8KW) I adjust mine manually. If I don't, I get this message sent to my E-mail:


"Dear Donald,

The station at which your vehicle is charging, DC CORRIDOR / LUCKYS SS L2, has detected that your vehicle is drawing more current than the station’s rating, and has suspended charging to prevent the circuit breaker from tripping. This typically indicates an issue with configuration of the vehicle or an issue with the battery management system on the vehicle. Please contact the manufacturer of the vehicle if you receive this notification again.

Team ChargePoint"




I enjoy seeing that message when I try to see what the machine can really handle (Some say they have a 6.6 KW limit but will not shut off even above 7 KW--even that is inconsistent). But it's nice to know my little motorcycle can charge at more KW than  ANY car from the same J-1772!


BTW, there are adapters made for other cars to use the DC fast chargers that are NOT designed for that type of car. For an example, I have seen Teslas use the Japanese standard CHAdeMO at Wal*Mart by using these.   Notice that is a cheap used one, only a little over $500.00.


Also, I can use Tesla Destination stations (but not the Superchargers) on my Zero and Energica, by using a Tesla-Tap adapter. You can see me doing such here.    These are much cheaper, because there is no DC conversion.


It works quite well as is, after one knows all the tricks. But like I said, it takes time and experience  to learn it all. Very few NEW EV drivers know this stuff, and that includes me in 2017.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Richard230]

Sorry about that Don to Tom conversion.  That was just my fingers making a typing mistake.  BTW, my dad's name was Otto, but everyone called him Tom after a famous football player during the 1940's.  Thanks again for your replies.

[DonTom]

I think some stations allow that and for sure all of electrify america network has credit card readers.

I don't think the Electrify America ones in Fernley, NV have CC readers. But the Electrify America in Elk Grove, CA do. Next time I am in Fernley, I will double check. I  activate those via the internet.
 
Also, Elk Gove has an Electrify America J-1772 as well as CCS and CHAdeMO.  At the Fernley, NV  Wal*Mart, they only have the  CCS and CHAdeMO, but no J-1772.

Also, in the Wal*marts where they are MOST needed (IMO) they have no charge stations at all. Such as is the case at  the Susanville, CA Wal*Mart.   At first, I thought they were going to put them at all Wal*Marts which would have really been useful.  But they didn't.

The fast chargers at Fernley ALWAYS work on my Energica.  I always have trouble getting them to work on my Energica at Elk Grove. Last time I was there, I tried them all, I could get none to work and went on to the next charger in the next town, where all  was fine.   So there are other differences with what FW they run and such with EA.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[hotsauce]

My friend has been interested in the Chevy Bolt, but knowing him I am sure that he would do a lot of research before deciding on a particular model. He doesn't seem interested in Teslas.

I wonder when it will be possible to just show up at any charging station and pay with a credit card as you do at a gas station?

Pretty much now is when. Back in 2019 California passed legislation requiring all new DC Fast chargers to have credit card payments as an option. Personally, I've driven a Bolt for three years and I've never once used a credit card at a charging station. I don't really see any advantage to doing so over using an app that also lets me monitor and control the charge session. EVs will always be the province of the reasonably well-off until you can pay to charge in cash, but that's a different discussion.

The biggest hurdle I've found when talking to people about making the switch is getting past the "how long does it take to charge" question, because it means they're thinking like the battery is just a different kind of gas tank, where you have to make a special stop to fill it. I ask them "if you left home every morning with a full tank of gas, how often would you actually have to visit a gas station?" and that generally changes their perspective.

Of course, if your friend is asking about L2 and L3 prices because he doesn't have access to at least a 1120V outlet every night at home, then the next question is, are the L2 chargers at/near his place of work, where he could charge during the day? If you can plug in to an L2 station for 4 hours each day, that'll get you enough juice to cover your day-to-day needs if your daily commute is less than 150 miles.

[Richard230]

My friend has been interested in the Chevy Bolt, but knowing him I am sure that he would do a lot of research before deciding on a particular model. He doesn't seem interested in Teslas.

I wonder when it will be possible to just show up at any charging station and pay with a credit card as you do at a gas station?

Pretty much now is when. Back in 2019 California passed legislation requiring all new DC Fast chargers to have credit card payments as an option. Personally, I've driven a Bolt for three years and I've never once used a credit card at a charging station. I don't really see any advantage to doing so over using an app that also lets me monitor and control the charge session. EVs will always be the province of the reasonably well-off until you can pay to charge in cash, but that's a different discussion.

The biggest hurdle I've found when talking to people about making the switch is getting past the "how long does it take to charge" question, because it means they're thinking like the battery is just a different kind of gas tank, where you have to make a special stop to fill it. I ask them "if you left home every morning with a full tank of gas, how often would you actually have to visit a gas station?" and that generally changes their perspective.

Of course, if your friend is asking about L2 and L3 prices because he doesn't have access to at least a 1120V outlet every night at home, then the next question is, are the L2 chargers at/near his place of work, where he could charge during the day? If you can plug in to an L2 station for 4 hours each day, that'll get you enough juice to cover your day-to-day needs if your daily commute is less than 150 miles.

My friend is retired and has a 240V dryer plug in his garage. However, he and his wife like to go on long camping trips in their diesel-powered motor home and was wondering about the cost of L3 charging while on the road if they switched to something like an electric SUV - especially now that diesel fuel has hit $7 a gallon in California.