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Author Topic: Hub motor handling?  (Read 1551 times)

hotsauce

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Hub motor handling?
« on: January 15, 2022, 02:15:51 AM »

I often see "altered handling" as a potential down side to motorcycles with hub motors. I'm currently riding a Chinese motorcycle with a 12kW hub motor and I've been asked a couple times how the unsprung weight affects handling. The motorcycle handles about like I remember my CM400 handling, but that was like 30 years ago, so who knows how reliable that memory is? Plus I'm a pretty conservative rider, so maybe I don't feel a difference because I'm just not leaning it over that far. I don't want to tell people "oh it handles fine!" and then have them be upset when it doesn't do what they expect. The bike weighs around 330lbs, with 70 pounds of that coming from the hub motor, vs. an average of 30 pounds for a normal rear rim.

So I guess what I'm asking is, what would make me say "oh, that's the unsprung weight" when I feel it?
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Richard230

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Re: Hub motor handling?
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2022, 04:02:41 AM »

Typically heavy unsprung weight will result in a rough ride as the rear wheel will bounce over a bump and spend more time in the air than a lighter, well suspended, wheel. Handling would be more compromised when cornering around a rough road and be less of an issue on a smooth roadway.
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Starpower

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Re: Hub motor handling?
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2022, 10:18:56 PM »

In a relaxed riding pace you would notice very little if any difference. But as Richard said when the pace picks as does the road surface it gets funky. To make it worse these bikes often have funky suspension.
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Demoni

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Re: Hub motor handling?
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2022, 10:42:24 AM »

Rotating mass is the enemy of acceleration, deceleration and turning. It will however make a bike feel more stable due to the greater gyroscopic effect
For the likely use cases a lower powered EV moto has I don't think a heavy rear wheel would be noticed. I have been on a few hub motor scooters and they handled fine.




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gregj

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Re: Hub motor handling?
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2022, 02:24:34 AM »

In a nutshell, on smooth city streets at city type use , you won't notice the difference , except in potholes ot maintenece dips. There the extra mass is hard to tame , but as it only occurrs once , it would be annoying but not much else.
At higher speeds and on rougher surfaces the extra mass will be more noticeable. Multiple modulations will be much harder to contain especially as the emotorcycle crowd seems to have bypassed decades of suspension tech and gone with very poor solutions. Poor quality damping ( ICE equivalents aren't immune from this one), heavy suspension  components and poorly designed chassis and linkages ( read simple single pivot rears mostly) are the big problem. The heavy unsprung mass contributes to the problem. Could a hub motor be designed to work sufficiently well. Of course!. Has it yet...mostly no.
Part of the problem also is that the hub motor unsprung weight is also a more significent proportion of the total system weight ( bike and rider). That also makes it more difficult to control. On a car the hub/suspension weight even with motors on each wheel is a tiny proportion of the total system weight, making it less noticeable.
The gyro effect on handling is more complicated. If you have as much motor mass as possible close to the axle , it will be less of a problem.
The bit few talk about, is the effect of the rear wheel mass relative to front wheel mass, and the consequent gyro interactions. To turn a two wheeled caster steering vehicle, the front gyro has to overcome the rear gyro ( which is trying to keep the bike upright). With a heavier rear the front input has to be greater  to bring the bike back from understeer to neutral.That requires a rethink to get it to handle properly.
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