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[DonTom]

See here.


"One reason to be suspicious of electric cars overall, is that we haven’t solved any of the real problems that we’ve always thought they had,” said Michael Shellenberger, a climate expert who founded the group Environmental Progress."


-Don- St. Cloud, FL (in RV with Zero DS)

[MVetter]

yes

clearly

go back to gas

[BigPoppa]

Wow...so much biased cherry picking of stats.

"...are often more expensive to fuel than their gas-powered competitors, according to a report from the Anderson Economic Group (AEG) published in October."

To get there, they had to factor in not only charging fees but registration fees and the cost of home chargers.

They conveniently leave out that most charging is done at home with much cheaper rates and that the cost of a home 240v charger is recouped pretty quickly...especially if you have more than one EV. Since I've taken a Ford Escape and my Model Y from the San Francisco Bay Area to Seattle, I can confirm that the charging costs and fuel costs aren't too different with charging being a bit cheaper on average since my trips in the Model Y have never been during peak travel season.

[DonTom]

"Are EVs a scam?"

No. And Yes.

They are simply another option for your transportation. You can cherry pick your argument and come to any conclusion you want. Under some circumstances they are cheaper and more environmentally friendly than ICE. Under some circumstances they are more expensive and less environmentally friendly than ICE. They have some drawbacks and don't fit all possible user scenarios. In some scenarios they excel.

When are EVs less "less environmentally friendly than ICE?"

-Don- St. Cloud, FL

[princec]

They're never more unfriendly but they do use up maybe 50% more resource and energy than ICE vehicles in construction and that's all cleverly hidden away where you can't see it in shitty countries where no-one cares about people. Let's not kid ourselves. Just because smoke ain't coming out the back doesn't mean it's not still fairly nasty to the world in general. At least bikes are only about a tenth as nasty to make.

Cas

[Moto7575]

No. Especially when you country's power is 77% nuclear, and you are using an electric motorcycle to commute that you charge on your standard home plug.

[NEW2elec]

EVs are an emerging technology and if I thought they had in some way reached there peak and would never improve I'd say they would just be a small segment of the overall transportation options. 
But we are just scratching the surface and as battery costs and overall improvements happen then in my mind they will be the clear superior choice as they can fill some many niches at once.

Gas has had over 100 years of improvements so just give EVs maybe 20 and they will take over.

[princec]

It has to be said though that the former scenario is actually dwindling rapidly in most of the developed world at least, and the latter is mitigated heavily by recyclability.

Cas

[T.S. Zarathustra]

Is it? Apparently fossil fuels (coal, oil and gas) are still responsible for about 80% of current electricity generation. https://www.iea.org/reports/key-world-energy-statistics-2021/supply That leaves about 20% split between bio/waste, nuclear, hydro, wind and solar. So there is still a far way to go.
EV have positives too and some are big. Still, IMHO the best way would be to reduce power usage, not switch it from one fossil fuel to another. Get work closer to where you live, shop local, travel to next state, not continent, replace car with bicycle/scooter.  Design buildings so they don't need as much heating and cooling. I'm sure you're all tired of me saying that, so I'll stop here.

Recycling of Lithium batteries still is not as good as it could be. Not mentioning solar cells and windmill blades.

[princec]

It does vary by country (and even by region).

There's no silver bullet and EVs are just the tip of the iceberg, but as they say, the great is the enemy of the good and all that, so it's a step in the right direction as opposed to the wrong direction.

Cas

[DonTom]

Is it? Apparently fossil fuels (coal, oil and gas) are still responsible for about 80% of current electricity generation. https://www.iea.org/reports/key-world-energy-statistics-2021/supply That leaves about 20% split between bio/waste, nuclear, hydro, wind and solar. So there is still a far way to go.
EV have positives too and some are big. Still, IMHO the best way would be to reduce power usage, not switch it from one fossil fuel to another. Get work closer to where you live, shop local, travel to next state, not continent, replace car with bicycle/scooter.  Design buildings so they don't need as much heating and cooling. I'm sure you're all tired of me saying that, so I'll stop here.

Recycling of Lithium batteries still is not as good as it could be. Not mentioning solar cells and windmill blades.

I wonder if someday they will do something about the real problem--way too many people in this world!


-Don St. Cloud, Fl

[ESokoloff]

I wonder if someday they will do something about the real problem--way too many people in this world!


-Don St. Cloud, Fl

Don, I agree but Elon disagrees with us......

https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-on-demographics-population-ageing-2021-12

[valnar]

The points in the article at not wrong, mostly.  Any non-EV person contemplating an EV has thought of them.

I like the term "deadhead" miles.  It's true for long distance traveling that you have to plan to go places you wouldn't otherwise.  Included in deadhead miles is another soft cost not listed - eating out for lunch.  Lemme explain: If you are traveling 6+ hours (say Cleveland to Chicago), you could make the trip without having to stop long for a meal, unless you really want to.  A gas station takes 5 minutes.  With an EV, you need much more time to charge.  What do us EV people always tell those ICE people?  "Just stop for lunch while it's charging".  But that only makes sense if you wanted to stop and buy the whole family lunch in the first place.  The rest of us would just pack some snacks for the trip.

This is just one example of inconvenience.  There are many.  It's a rich person's game.

I own a Zero, but have no interest in an EV car yet.

[Sklith]

Stopping for lunch while DC fast charging in my Tesla is out of the question. My charging sessions usually take 20-25 min so if I'm getting a meal I'll have to eat it in the car.

[princec]

Even on my SR/F I only just had enough time to actually stop and have a proper lunch when I travelled to North Wales (fish and chips, mushy peas, slice of bread and butter, mug of tea... and it was fantastic). I also stopped for a slice of cake and a coffee, and another time for a crappy Morrisons sandwich and a little rest. Stopping for a rest makes a hell of a lot more sense on a bike, I reckon, because it's far more tiring.

Cas