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[DonTom]

The LW is said to be the best selling electric motorcycle in the USA.  And is most likely true.


I have a few guesses of why, I want to see if others some up with the same.


-Don-  Colds Springs Valley, NV

[NEW2elec]

Don what I saw said they have only sold a few hundred bikes.
They may have said it was the "best" US made electric bike sold but it's over priced for the range and charging options at $30k MSRP.

I've seen plenty of reviews where people were happy with the bike as a whole but it's needed to be priced closer to $24k maybe.

[DonTom]

Don what I saw said they have only sold a few hundred bikes.
They may have said it was the "best" US made electric bike sold but it's over priced for the range and charging options at $30k MSRP.

I've seen plenty of reviews where people were happy with the bike as a whole but it's needed to be priced closer to $24k maybe.

Then see here.


"The $30,000 LiveWire electric motorcycle may have sold enough units to become the No. 1 best-selling electric motorcycle model in North America, but it still priced out most of the market – especially critical younger riders."

How many bikes has Zero sold in the USA since the LW was available?

-Don-  Reno, NV

[NEW2elec]

Well there is the "MAY" in that statement.  And maybe compared to any one Zero model but Zero sales could be spread across at least ten different models and more if you count standard and premium.

[DonTom]

Well there is the "MAY" in that statement.  And maybe compared to any one Zero model but Zero sales could be spread across at least ten different models and more if you count standard and premium.

" That would put them at around 200 bikes per month."

How many bikes does Zero sell in a month?  Zero doesn't say, so how does Harley even know?

But  there is no "may" in the linked statement.

I suppose HD could be playing word games, but according to the HD shops, they sell quite well.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[princec]

Well, interestingly enough, we have data from DVLA in the UK, that's actually accurate. I don't know whether we can meaningfully extrapolate the sales in the UK market to the US market (the US is basically weird af with their odd penchant for useless Harleys), but for example, in 2019, there were 19 Zero SR/Fs on the road in the whole of the country, and  I suspect they sold a whole lot more of them in 2020. There are only 9 FXSes, 7 DSes, etc. You get the picture... not a whole lot. Unfortuantely there's no data yet for 2020 so there's no LW stats.

I can't help but be absolutely certain they'd shift an order of magnitude more of all of these bikes if they were priced at something like 2/3rds of their current RRP.

Cas

[NEW2elec]

Don,
The $30,000 LiveWire electric motorcycle !"MAY"! have sold enough units to become the No. 1 best-selling electric motorcycle model in North America, but it still priced out most of the market – especially critical younger riders."

There is a "may" in the quote.

Earlier in the year I heard they had only sold like 400 bikes total.
They are ending the model as a HD and spinning it off with other smaller electric offerings.

[Richard230]

That Electrek article that Don references contains nothing but their opinion regarding which direction H-D might take in the future if they continue to introduce electric motorcycles into their lineup. While interesting, I am not seeing any quotable facts or numbers to support their position.

However, it won't be long before H-D introduces the new LiveWire One to the market and gives some hints regarding their new EV brand's future. Maybe by then the mud that we are standing on will start to dry out a bit. But even then, H-D has a history of not going through with many of their plans and concepts due to their board looking more for short term monetary gains instead of investing in the future even if they loose money now.

I suspect that their new EV brand is an attempt to insulate the company from likely low volume EV sales and a potential for company losses over the next 5 years. I am pretty sure that H-D's corporate board does not have the same resources or financial guts that Tesla had during their first 10 years. I have no doubt that most of the members of the H-D board have "V-twin" tattooed to their foreheads. 

[DonTom]

Well there is the "MAY" in that statement.  And maybe compared to any one Zero model but Zero sales could be spread across at least ten different models and more if you count standard and premium.

"And then there’s the fact that the LiveWire is the number-one-selling electric motorcycle in the US, according to Harley-Davidson."

But yeah, in this world of BS, that can mean anything, especially if they see every Zero as a different model.  It would be nice to have some real numbers.
-Don-  Reno, NV

[flynnstig82r]

Leaving aside whether the ELW is the best-selling electric motorcycle or not, there's also the issue of dealers quietly letting LiveWires go for substantially less than MSRP. I've heard some people have been getting them for as little as $20k. So we don't know how many of those buyers paid the full MSRP.

[DonTom]

Leaving aside whether the ELW is the best-selling electric motorcycle or not, there's also the issue of dealers quietly letting LiveWires go for substantially less than MSRP. I've heard some people have been getting them for as little as $20k. So we don't know how many of those buyers paid the full MSRP.

Yeah, I also heard recently that many HD dealers have lowered the prices substantially of their demo bikes, as happens with many bikes near the end of the model year. But I don't think I have heard of much reduction on bikes that are NOT demos.

FWIW, I wouldn't pay 20K$ for a new LW, just not what I want in an electric bike. IMO, it would make a lot more sense to buy an Energica or Zero SR/S, even for a few thousand bucks more, IMO.

However, the LW does look like a very high quality bike. Photos don't do it justice. One has to see it in person. It almost looks like it should sell for 30K$, IMO.

But if the LW is really the best selling electric, I think the number of dealers where it is sold is the main reason. But I am not even sure about that, when I discovered in Tucson, AZ  there is no LW at the HD dealer, but I can buy a Zero in Tucson. Could the HD  name also be a reason?

Or the many people who have tried a LW at a HD dealer and never tried any other electric motorcycle and was impressed with the torque and such?

-Don-  Reno, NV

[MVetter]

I suppose if you don't consider ANY factors like how many models are in their portfolio, marketing budget, and brand loyalists the LiveWire's numbers might be impressive, yeah.

Try factoring some of those things in and it might be less so.

[Richard230]

I still think this is where H-D's interest really lies:  https://www.motorcycle.com/features/what-we-know-about-the-harley-davidson-high-performance-custom-1250.html

[DonTom]

I still think this is where H-D's interest really lies:  https://www.motorcycle.com/features/what-we-know-about-the-harley-davidson-high-performance-custom-1250.html

I wonder what the purpose is to release the info on a certain date.


But I can clearly understand one possible reason. Such as when I purchased my Energica.  I had no idea I could buy the 21.5 models at the same price if I waited a month later. They would have lost a sale on the smaller battery if they released the information earlier that a much larger battery was coming a month or two later.


-Don-  (CCS Charging in Fernley, NV)

[Richard230]

I just finished reading an article published today by Motorcycle.com showing spy shots of a new fully water-cooled and completely redesigned BMW R1300GS prototype being tested. So BMW is still on board with ICE for the future. So far I haven't seen a single spy shot or speculative article regarding an electric GS. I think that says something about how the major motorcycle manufacturers regard the EV market.

H-D is an outlier, of course and is taking a chance on the high-end EV market. But I  still can't understand why they haven't come up with a cruiser model.    While BMW did develop and market their electric scooter, it sure didn't sell well in the U.S. With the big push to go fully electric by 2030 (not all that far away) with autos I am not seeing any big stampede to do the same with motorcycles.