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[Crissa]

Saying something doesn't solve it all is giving ammo to those who say we can't do enough at all.

We have to do many things.

[flynnstig82r]

Of course. I'm not anti-EV, I'm just pushing back on the idea that replacing gas cars with EV's should be the primary focus of advocates or represents the best use of government funds. If someone can carpool or take transit or active transportation options for most of their miles, it might be better for sustainability for them to hang onto the old gas car for incidental trips than to buy a brand new vehicle that had a huge manufacturing footprint to be produced and shipped.

[Crissa]

I've found it surprising how many people do not accept the idea that more modes of transportation means fewer cars on the road.

-Crissa

[JaimeC]

It is amazing how many of my fellow Americans think they need a multi-ton vehicle to transport just themselves every day...

My car only gets used in really bad weather, or when I have to carry too much to fit on my motorcycles.  Otherwise I'm nearly always on two wheels.

[Richard230]

It is amazing how many of my fellow Americans think they need a multi-ton vehicle to transport just themselves every day...

My car only gets used in really bad weather, or when I have to carry too much to fit on my motorcycles.  Otherwise I'm nearly always on two wheels.

It is the same with me. I only drive my car about 500 miles a year. Most of the chores and family visits that I used to use my car for has been replaced by my Zero.    To carry stuff and for shopping I have an expandable tank bag, an expandable seat bag, a set of soft saddlebags and a Givi top box in two different sizes. My Zero is a beast of burden. 

[Eicas]

Same here!  After I get my Zero I sold my Jeep and we now get by with one small car and my Zero.  So far after 2 months it is working out great.

[Crissa]

I love doing errands on the Zero About as much energy to go to the store as light a 100W lightbulb for any hour.  It's great.

-Crissa

[DonTom]

I love doing errands on the Zero About as much energy to go to the store as light a 100W lightbulb for any hour.  It's great.

-Crissa

Let's see.  A 100 watt light for an hour is  0.1KWH.  Your Zero has around a ten KWH battery, I assume (nominal). Perhaps gets 6 miles per KWH at the most in the city. So 0.1 KWH would be 0.6 miles round trip at best. So your store must be 0.3 miles away.   I think I would just walk and leave the bike at home.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

My bike has an 8.5kWh battery, which would have less available, but completely unrelated to how much it takes to move it.

The store is .9 miles away and several hundred feet down in elevation.  Coming back with the groceries on foot (or even my bicycle) is a feat.

-Crissa

[hiura]

We don't have time to waste on thinking about excuses — our time needs to be spent on thinking of solutions like business models, creative financing, inventions, etc..

I'm not talking excuses. I'm talking people who can afford $30,000 on an EV toy while they dream of peeing on the little people in fly over country as they sit in business class to realize that there is a great pissed off wave of populism rising against your righteousness. You think Joe Manchin is worried about losing his seat in West Virginia or that Trump is the worst that we can get.

People who stand in line to buy the latest SUPREME drop while virtue tweeting on their slave made iPhone need to chill on the righteousness. Saying wee nee to go electric tomorrow? OK, put down the latte and get your ass hundreds of feet in the air running electric lines or else all you have is self-righteousness and no plan.

Where are you people pushing for Thorium reactors? Yeah...all talk from people online when they have the money and expect the little peons to do the sweat work. The masses will own nothing and be happy.

[hiura]

Sure, but that's like declaring something health food because it's slightly better for you than a Big Mac. If everyone living a car-dependent lifestyle switched to an EV tomorrow and continued driving just as many miles, we'd still have a major emissions crisis on our hands. Switching to an EV is better than nothing, of course, but it's a band-aid on a gunshot wound. Compared to carpooling, transit, active modes, or even car sharing services like Zipcar, EV's represent a huge amount of investment for a comparatively tiny reduction in environmental footprint.

Thumbs up and this is my point. Lets all feel better about ourselves by forcing all EV cars and motorcycles on people (who can't afford them) and putting a lot of people out of work all the while achieving minimal results. Consumerism and building pollution never get a mention. It's always cars/motorcycles while ignoring all else. Change is needed, but results over feelings will work. 

[Richard230]

This thread appears to be taking a spin on the dark side. 

[hiura]

This thread appears to be taking a spin on the dark side. 

So long as real-life Titania McGrath's refuse to consider the unintended downstream consequences of their self-righteousness, what we all here want (more EV options and energy/supply chain freedom and independence for the US) gets subsumed to feelings.

Even if every ICE car/motorcycle got crushed this morning, there is not enough material to build enough EVs for everyone and the impact is still going to be minimal compared with planes, mining, manufacturing, energy production and building energy waste. This is a multifacted problem and comfortable white collar people continuing to tell blue collar people dismissively how to live (or just die) is not a winning strategy.

There has to be a transition not a revolution. Not my thinking....reality.

[Crissa]

A fifth of US emissions is from automobiles.

So no, it wouldn't be minimal.  Airplanes are less than a sixth of what cars put out.

I do not understand this argument or its timing.  What does this have to do with promoting alternate means of transportation?

-Crissa

[Richard230]

A fifth of US emissions is from automobiles.

So no, it wouldn't be minimal.  Airplanes are less than a sixth of what cars put out.

I do not understand this argument or its timing.  What does this have to do with promoting alternate means of transportation?

-Crissa

Right now I am starting to worry that smoke from wildfires in the West are going to overtake vehicle emissions.