Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Curt]

I have never heard of a DC powerline, have you?

Read about the Pacific DC Intertie. It's not relevant here, but it sure is interesting.

[Sklith]

No.  They have 240 in them for powering the cars in standby mode.

Got any documentation to back this claim up? 'Cause I've got TelsaMate logs querying Tesla's API pulling 1kW @ 405V with 100% SoC from a Supercharging session I did recently.

[DonTom]

I have never heard of a DC powerline, have you?

Read about the Pacific DC Intertie. It's not relevant here, but it sure is interesting.

First I heard of such. I read about it here.


I would think the losses of the skin effect at 60 hz  would be less troublesome than converting DC to AC to make needed changes,  but technology changes faster these days faster than I can keep up with.  It don't mention the disadvantages and how they convert it back to  AC for household and business use.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[DonTom]

ultrarnr, I agree with you completely but ultimately it's up to them to decide what to do with their business. If they don't want to be an Energica dealer in GA, hopefully someone else will soon.

There is probably a long waiting list for Energica dealers.


My understanding is by their contracts with shops Energica has to supply their old shops first before any other new shops. They do not make enough bikes to supply any new shops.


Hopefully,  they become a much larger company and get a  larger  factory to make more bikes.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[DonTom]

...And I'm not going to argue with Don and his 'but dumb outlets' idea.  The dumb outlets don't do anything that J1772 doesn't do.

That is because you know you will lose. Show me a 12KW J-1772 station anywhere in the USA--just one. I can show you several  12KW 14-50R's even in my own houses. Even at 80% continuous  duty that is 9,600 watts, more power than ANY j-1772 I have seen.


My 8KW chargers on my SR will trip most J-1772's. But I don't have to worry about such with a 240 VAC  outlet.



-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Sklith]

I've done 2 cross country road trips with my family in Teslas, and I've charged via 14-50 outlets at 2 hotels so far. One of which came in clutch which is Quality Inn 1902 21st Ave. Scottsbluff NE. The reason is it was the only way I could charge to cut from the I-80 Supercharger route to the I-90 one since we had changed our plans and no longer wanted to visit Colorado during our trip.

In Europe, they essentially don't have cables at EVSEs, you have to bring your own cable. Should be this way here too since it's cheaper to install a station without a cable.

[reini]

RIP another thread going down the rabbit hole of discussing the weird electrical system in the US...

[Crissa]

...And I'm not going to argue with Don and his 'but dumb outlets' idea.  The dumb outlets don't do anything that J1772 doesn't do.

That is because you know you will lose. Show me a 12KW J-1772 station anywhere in the USA--just one. I can...

...Go on and on at length, never once wondering why someone might not install a public charger at that level even though they totally exist.

Most outlets in your house are probably 15a, too, that doesn't mean that 50a outlets don't exist.

-Crissa

[DonTom]

In Europe, they essentially don't have cables at EVSEs, you have to bring your own cable. Should be this way here too since it's cheaper to install a station without a cable.

Yep, and I carry such cables with me anyway. All four of my EVs can charge from a 14-50R. At the same or more power than a J-1772.


I didn't realize that Europe EV AC  charging was mostly from a simple outlet.  IMO, the way I would p[refer it here, but I can see why on some motorcycles they wouldn't want to have to carry cables. Such as the LW, which as AFAIK, has no luggage available. But it doesn't even count since its AC charging is less is around 1.4KW, which is mostly useless other than for home charging overnight. But it is also nice for charge tanks and such. But even them I would carry a cable for an outlet. I like to leave home knowing I can charge from anything possible.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Shadow]

...Show me a 12KW J-1772 station anywhere in the USA--just one...

Don, you forget I showed you the 70A Eaton J1772 station at Diamond Peak ski resort? Twice.

[DonTom]

Don, you forget I showed you the 70A Eaton J1772 station at Diamond Peak ski resort? Twice.

That  was 70 amps? 16.8 KW?  Yeah, I forgot all about that one. I wonder why they no longer use those.


BTW, I only remember one time seeing those and I forgot all about them. That was before I was used to taking long trips on electric bikes and had no way to use that type of power.  When was the other time?  The first time was my first ride from here in Auburn to Reno, with you.


I assume the older AC charge stations had more power because DC Fast charging was rare back in those days. I also noticed Tesla AC charging is much less these days., maxed at 12KW, AFAIK. Yet some of the Tesla Destination stations on the road are 16KW.


I will take a ride back out there to Diamond Peak  one of these days soon for another look!


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[DonTom]

Plugshare says it is used at 48 amps, same as I charge my Tesla with at home, 11,520 watts. But that is as good as a 14-50R, so I stand corrected on that issue.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[wavelet]

In Europe, they essentially don't have cables at EVSEs, you have to bring your own cable. Should be this way here too since it's cheaper to install a station without a cable.

Yep, and I carry such cables with me anyway. All four of my EVs can charge from a 14-50R. At the same or more power than a J-1772.


I didn't realize that Europe EV AC  charging was mostly from a simple outlet.  IMO, the way I would p[refer it here, but I can see why on some motorcycles they wouldn't want to have to carry cables.

Huh? No, most public EV chargers in Europe are 3-phase, supplying 22kW via the IEC 62196 Type 2 EV socket, a.k.a. Mennekes .
There are few models that can make use of that (most common is the Renault Zoe, the best-selling EV in Europe many years which while a low-end car has always had 22kW support, and older versions even had 43kW AC), but the majority of current cars can do 11kW AC 3-phase, standard or at least as an option.

Home EV chargers in Europe are typically 11kW 3-phase, using the same socket, although 22kW EVSE units are also available, and cost <US$1000. Installing the latter sometimes requires enlarging the electric utility's connection if you want to charge a car at that rate while still providing enough wattage for the rest of the household load.

There are people here who install 22kW chargers at home to be able to charge two cars @ 11kW each.

3-phase charging is common, simply because most residences & commercial buildings have a 3-phase panel. Here  3x25A  & 3x40A (@230V) are most common.
The UK is the exception, with 3-phase residence feeds being rare.

Charging using a simple (1-phase household) AC outlet, 16A @ 230V or 10A @ 230V, depending on specific outlet & country, isn't common.
People do use granny cables to charge cars, but for the granny scenario only.
The fact that Zero uses household sockets as their standard charging solution is definitely hurting them in Europe.

[Crissa]

The fact that Zero uses household sockets as their standard charging solution is definitely hurting them in Europe.

When the bikes that use that as the standard were released, there wasn't the infrastructure there is now.  Even so, it's still cheaper/smaller and you can get an adapter to plug into an EVSE if not an actual bigger charger like the Charge Tank.

It hurts them to be lighter and cheaper?  Do any of the other low-end bikes even use the EVSE infrastructure?

-Crissa

[DonTom]

Don, you forget I showed you the 70A Eaton J1772 station at Diamond Peak ski resort? Twice.

And today, I used it at 8KW, no need for two J-adapters.


There is a total of four such stations out there, two at the nearby Golf Course. I check-in to both on Plugshare, but the Golf Course was just for the check-in.  I only ran the OBC at the golf course, as I just near fully charged at Diamond Peak.


All four ChargePoints are 70 amp output. All are the exact same type. That is the only place I have ever seen those. We need more like that! Good for above 16KW per station, assuming it runs on 240 VAC.  That sure would make the ChargeTank useful on a premium Zero, charge at 12KW with ease.


BTW, the golf course is closer to the main roads and free for anybody to use.


Here is the label:


-Don-  Reno, NV