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[jwahl83]

Hello, everyone. I am in the process of conducting research into Harley Davidson for a stock pitch and am closely examining their push into the electric motorcycle market as an area for future growth. I am curious to hear your thoughts on the Livewire and how it stacks up to other bikes in the space. For example, Zero's SR/S is competitively priced and I am curious as to why you think the Livewire is (or is not) superior. Is the price premium worth it to own a Harley? It seems as though Harley is attempting to target a new customer segment as the majority of HD's loyal customer base is committed to combustion motorcycles at least for now. In line with this, do you think there is the possibility for the broad appeal of an electric bike among riders broadly if the technology progresses?

Bottom Line: Please share any thoughts you have on the Livewire, why you bought one, and how you see the future of Harley Davidson electric motorcycles. I greatly appreciate your help. Feel free to comment on any aspect of this post.

[princec]

I can only tell you why I didn't just buy one and bought a Zero instead: price. It's 50% more than everything else out there (and actually twice the price of the SRF I just got) This is fundamentally its main problem. If it were priced within 10% of a Zero or Energica it'd quite possibly be first choice.

Couldn't care less about the Harley brand (if anything it's got way too many negative connotations), so it competes almost entirely on technical merit for me, and dealer backup (which is admittedly good). All the main leccy bikes have technical pros and cons but the Livewire was never even in the running because the price is a joke - if I had 30 grand lying around it's going on a Model 3.

Cas

[Richard230]

My personal feeling is that H-D just doesn't have their heart into electric motorcycles and was mostly making a political statement with the LiveWire.  Also, I wouldn't be too surprised if they received a government grant to help fund the LiveWire's design and development. I think they continue to see their future making and selling ICE vertical twins.

[princec]

But surely they'd have just made something half-assed then? The LiveWire is top-three-contender of all the EV bikes available - it's really good.

Cas

[NEW2elec]

All reviews are positive for the bike and ride quality but price, range and lack of 6kw AC charging makes other bikes more practical. 
I think Harley will come out with an electric adventure/scrambler option in the not too distant future.

[Richard230]

But surely they'd have just made something half-assed then? The LiveWire is top-three-contender of all the EV bikes available - it's really good.

Cas

I agree. The LiveWire appears to be a very well developed and designed electric motorcycle. So they probably received a nice big government grant to design the bike.  But with that pricing they really don't seem to want to sell very many of them. I also believe that the designers of the bike were hired guns and are likely not full-time H-D employees. But that is just my guess from keeping track of H-D bikes and business practices, going back to the early 1960's Topper Scooter. They have a long history of going in one direction and then dropping the product. The latest example is Buell, but there have been many other attempts to move on to other directions that they have killed off after a few years - and have lost their shirt in the process.   

[jwahl83]

Original poster here. I appreciate the responses. I do not own a motorcycle personally however as an outsider, I agree that the cost of the Livewire is extremely difficult to justify. I read an article suggesting that its price was set in anticipation of lower sales volumes with the hope of driving up interest in the EV platform. From there they could offer potentially cheaper options down the road. Whether or not that will play out as they planned is to be determined as there are serious headwinds (battery tech etc.) facing the EV industry as it becomes more widely adopted. Would it be safe to say that if HD found a way to lower prices and fix aspects such as the offering level 2 charging it would be much more appealing broadly? I realize these are not easy fixes per se however I am just trying to roughly gauge if this is something existing customers care about or if there is just a lack of interest.

[princec]

Halve the price and add L2 charging and they'll fly off the shelves.

Cas

[Crissa]

Or double their DC charging.

Otherwise, it's the Porsche of electric motorcycles.

-Crissa

[MVetter]

I've done an extensive review on the LiveWire. I also have experience with most of the other makes and models out there by Zero and Energica. Here are the great things about the LiveWire:

- Top-tier thermal management on the batteries. Actively cools while riding due to clever engineering.
- Top-tier performance. Yes, it's capped at 114mph but it has the unusual trait of giving amazing power deep into low battery. I've not seen anything else compare at low charge state.
- Beautiful fit and finish. High-quality parts.
- The largest dealer network.

Here are some not-so-great things about it:

- Borderline nonexistent level 2 charging. 14 hours at a J plug? No thanks.
- Price. Obviously.
- Complete lack of storage and storage options. From H-D. Seriously.


Those are just the major pros and cons as I see them. I have tons more minor positive praise and gripes but those are the most important things I see when I look at the bike.

[DonTom]

I've done an extensive review on the LiveWire. I also have experience with most of the other makes and models out there by Zero and Energica. Here are the great things about the LiveWire:

- Top-tier thermal management on the batteries. Actively cools while riding due to clever engineering.
- Top-tier performance. Yes, it's capped at 114mph but it has the unusual trait of giving amazing power deep into low battery. I've not seen anything else compare at low charge state.
- Beautiful fit and finish. High-quality parts.
- The largest dealer network.

Here are some not-so-great things about it:

- Borderline nonexistent level 2 charging. 14 hours at a J plug? No thanks.
- Price. Obviously.
- Complete lack of storage and storage options. From H-D. Seriously.


Those are just the major pros and cons as I see them. I have tons more minor positive praise and gripes but those are the most important things I see when I look at the bike.

IMO, the pros are far from making up for the cons.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[umrath]

I would like to see the "Livewire" brand to become an independent company.
I'm not convinced that Harley is really able to transform the way they need to.

But: The Livewire is a great bike (even though it's far too expensive for my taste) and I also like what I saw in "Long Way Up".
So, the potential is definitely there and they know how to build bikes.

[hiura]

I would like to see the "Livewire" brand to become an independent company.
I'm not convinced that Harley is really able to transform the way they need to.

But: The Livewire is a great bike (even though it's far too expensive for my taste) and I also like what I saw in "Long Way Up".
So, the potential is definitely there and they know how to build bikes.

Give'm time. Harley will passively allow (or even actively engage in) the Livewire to wither and then sell it for a fraction of their investment just like with MV Agusta.

[princec]

That sounds and appears to be exactly what they're doing.

Cas

[Richard230]

I would like to see the "Livewire" brand to become an independent company.
I'm not convinced that Harley is really able to transform the way they need to.

But: The Livewire is a great bike (even though it's far too expensive for my taste) and I also like what I saw in "Long Way Up".
So, the potential is definitely there and they know how to build bikes.

My recollection is that H-D did say last year during one of their corporate Rewired press releases that they planned to spin off their electric vehicle operations into a separate (but I assume, affiliated) company as part of a planned reorganization of the firm. Gotta keep those electrical customers at arms-length and away from the IC V-twin Faithful.