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Author Topic: KTM considering swappable batteries  (Read 3460 times)

NEW2elec

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Re: KTM considering swappable batteries
« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2021, 08:43:35 PM »

When Energica first came out they said their then $38,000 bikes would be future proof by being able to upgrade to newer and better batteries when they came out.  At this time upgrading an older Ego isn't an option.  But feel free to buy a new one.

Potted or not is by far the least important point I was making in regards to your Damon reference.  The vloger either doesn't know or doesn't understand the benefits to the Hyperdrive system and it's purpose for future motorcycle types. 
There are fasteners all along the edges.  I can't confirm at this time but I would say the case should be able to be opened (at a service center) and have at least some of the drive components replaced if maybe not individual cells.

The problem with Li-ion isn't the Lithium it's the liquid electrolyte that expands, gasses, bursts and burns.  It also is what negatively effects the range and charging speed and discharge rate in temperature extremes.
Thus solid state cells without the liquid electrolyte will be used in most all applications from a safety aspect alone.
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princec

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Re: KTM considering swappable batteries
« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2021, 08:52:05 PM »

The way I foresee it panning out is - power density is likely to win out over recharge time. At the end of the day - literally - people are generally going to return home, and that's where they're going to want to recharge, for the cheapest electricity, and they've got all night to do it. I think this would lead to fast chargers being positioned as things to help you go on long journeys, so we'll see large banks of them popping up on motorways, and substations to distribute the colossal power requirements to them. If people are generally going to either overnight charge or expensively fast-charge on trunk roads then we're likely to see a general desire for an increased overall range to avoid the relative hassle of a charge stop in the first place. "Slow" AC chargers are going to stagnate out-and-about because there's little use-case for them - because they mean a car takes up a bay for a long time they just can't get the throughput they need from them, so they'll likely all become "destination" chargers where people are going to actually stop rather than just somewhere along a route.

Tesla is more or less directly pursuing this strategy, with every battery update storing more power in the same volume, and the supercharger network taking direct care of long-range customers.

Solid state is the Great Saviour but it won't be ready in time for the 2030 ICE ban in the UK (for example), and in the meantime "normal" battery tech advances slowly and incrementally; I predict a 33% increase in range for the same volume and weight over the next 10 years or so, though that will largely be irrelevant to cars and of more interest to PTWs which are the backbone of personal transport for most of the world.

Cas :)
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Richard230

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Re: KTM considering swappable batteries
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2021, 09:01:21 PM »

I have to agree with Cas, but what he doesn't mention is what anyone living in a multi-unit apartment or condominium will do to recharge their EV. While there may be the possibility of options where apartments have a dedicated garage, you won't find that feature on very many high-rise condos in dense urban areas. So that would indicate the need for EV rentals with fast on-road or vacation destination charging stations to keep them running.
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Crissa

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Re: KTM considering swappable batteries
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2021, 09:06:46 PM »

Swapping packs will always have lower power density and reliability.

They'll find some use in scooters and race bikes, but... Those two issues have always stopped them from being used elsewhere.

Motorcyclists want density and reliability and so they will never be happy with older swapping tech.  Bikes just don't live long enough, either, statistically.

-Crissa
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2014 Zero S ZF8.5

princec

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Re: KTM considering swappable batteries
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2021, 09:30:03 PM »

I have to agree with Cas, but what he doesn't mention is what anyone living in a multi-unit apartment or condominium will do to recharge their EV. While there may be the possibility of options where apartments have a dedicated garage, you won't find that feature on very many high-rise condos in dense urban areas. So that would indicate the need for EV rentals with fast on-road or vacation destination charging stations to keep them running.
There's a huge elephant in the room over this and it basically needs spelling out. "POOR PEOPLE WITHOUT POSH HOMES WON'T BE DOING MUCH CAR OWNING ANY MORE". There. I said it.

Cas :)
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Crissa

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Re: KTM considering swappable batteries
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2021, 11:07:13 PM »

Poor people without homes don't do much car owning to begin with.

-Crissa
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2014 Zero S ZF8.5

Crissa

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Re: KTM considering swappable batteries
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2021, 01:07:03 AM »

Zero has been finding that using several modules of different age runs into problems charging which just wears out one of the modules more quickly.

Their 14.4 monolith is actually four such modules, and the Power Tank is another module.  They used to make three-module bikes, like mine.

-Crissa
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2014 Zero S ZF8.5

Sklith

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Re: KTM considering swappable batteries
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2021, 09:31:04 PM »

I think DCFC charge times in cars & motorcycles will improve so much within a few years that swapping batteries will pretty much only exist in either the off-roading market or on shorter range (20-ish mile range) vehicles.

If your car can accept 200 miles of range in 5 minutes then swapping batteries doesn't sound all that appealing.
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2020 Energia Ego

princec

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Re: KTM considering swappable batteries
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2021, 09:54:37 PM »

I'd be happy with 100 miles in 30 minutes meself.

Cas :)
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Sklith

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Re: KTM considering swappable batteries
« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2021, 01:21:58 AM »

Being happy with 100 miles in 30 minutes puts you in the minority for sure. Right now, Energica models & LiveWire do that but it's hardly convenient. Planning a road trip from Atlanta to Destin, FL on Abetterrouteplanner.com on my Ego just about doubles the travel time from 6 hours to 12 hours compared to a combustion motorcycle.
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2020 Energia Ego
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