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[Crissa]

It's not really a widget, DC charging doesn't require rectifiers, as that's all in the station.  DC charging solves the problem of heavy AC charging units by taking it off the bike.

-Crissa

[TheRan]

I think he's talking about a step down buck converter. I would imagine it has been discussed on here before and there are good reasons why it's not done, my guess would be they're not efficient enough and you'd end up dumping kilowatts of heat.

[Crissa]

Too bad rearranging the cell order from parallel to series was patented recently.

-Crissa

[Sklith]

Too bad rearranging the cell order from parallel to series was patented recently.

-Crissa

You're talking about GM's Ultium's batteries, right? Doesn't seem fair that they'd have a lock on that, but whatever.

[TheRan]

It's not done for the same reason but I wonder whether Dewalt's Flexvolt batteries would count as precedent and invalidate that patent.

[Crissa]

It's not done for the same reason but I wonder whether Dewalt's Flexvolt batteries would count as precedent and invalidate that patent.

I don't think the patent is valid, since it should be an obvious use but... there it is.

And it was Rivian that patented it.  It's not the Ultium.

-Crissa

[princec]

Wasn't that patent about using software & hardware to dynamically reconfigure the battery though?
I was just rather hoping Zero would change their approach and design and reconfigure things into a high-voltage arrangement so they could follow the rest of the EV industry and take advantage of DCFC. But I suppose their motor is designed for massive amps and no gearing and they're so far up that road they won't be turning around any time soon.

Cas

[Richard230]

Wasn't that patent about using software & hardware to dynamically reconfigure the battery though?
I was just rather hoping Zero would change their approach and design and reconfigure things into a high-voltage arrangement so they could follow the rest of the EV industry and take advantage of DCFC. But I suppose their motor is designed for massive amps and no gearing and they're so far up that road they won't be turning around any time soon.

Cas

My recollection is that when Zero's original motor was designed as first used in the 2013 models, it was done so with the help of a $900K government "incentive" grant. I imagine that the IPM motor cost a lot less to make as it seems to use many of the same major parts of the original motor. In any case it appears that Zero is not interested in buying an off-the-shelf high voltage motor and is really only interested in using their own dedicated motor, for whatever corporate reason. As long as it costs big bucks to design and manufacturer a specialized Zero-only motor and using only their own motor is the direction that their board wants to go, I am not looking forward to any big changes to their voltage plans. 

Of course I have always thought that eventually, if electric motorcycle sales ever increase to the point where the major motorcycle manufacturers finally decide to jump into the market, Zero would be brought out by one of the majors like Suzuki instead of them going to the trouble and effort to set up their own EV division. (Sort of like Polaris buying out Brammo.     )If that was to happen then things would likely finally change in a big way - eventually.    If only I can live that long. 

[JaimeC]

Of course I have always thought that eventually, if electric motorcycle sales ever increase to the point where the major motorcycle manufacturers finally decide to jump into the market, Zero would be brought out by one of the majors like Suzuki instead of them going to the trouble and effort to set up their own EV division. (Sort of like Polaris buying out Brammo. 

Not me.  Look at how it all turned out for Brammo!  Polaris is now working with Zero for electric technology, remember?

[Crissa]

And Zero is working on new motors, remember the partnership with Exro?

-Crissa

[JaimeC]

Was it a new motor?  I was under the impression it was a new controller that simulated a mechanical transmission in electronics...?

[Crissa]

It's a new motor that has more than one set of windings, allowing it to act like different motors.

-Crissa

[JaimeC]

Ah.  Well, if it's a new motor, maybe they can make it a 300V  motor and start a redesign.  I just hope they don't give up the simplicity of air cooling.  The Zero is still the easiest bike to maintain out of all of the ones in that test because of its air-cooled motor.

[Crissa]

Higher voltage should run cooler.

But thermal management doesn't need to be heavy.  It would be nice to take heat from the motor to the battery on cold days or heat from the battery to the fins while DC charging... Or heat from the motor to the fins on a hot day.

I'd rather use weight for thermal management than an AC charger

-Crissa