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[Richard230]

Here is an article that was in my newspaper yesterday that describes Tesla's new larger battery cell, which I thought most people here would find interesting if they already didn't know about it.

[JaimeC]

That last bit about "too many electric vehicles concentrate on high end performance" strikes a chord with me.  I like my Zero S because it is practical.  It's fast enough to go on the highway, and thanks to the charge tank I can get back on the road after a leisurely meal.  That's all I really need... I don't need all the power of the SR or the SR/F.  I hope Zero continues to make relatively inexpensive and practical electric motorcycles for those of us who outgrew the need to be the fastest kid on the block.

[Richard230]

That last bit about "too many electric vehicles concentrate on high end performance" strikes a chord with me.  I like my Zero S because it is practical.  It's fast enough to go on the highway, and thanks to the charge tank I can get back on the road after a leisurely meal.  That's all I really need... I don't need all the power of the SR or the SR/F.  I hope Zero continues to make relatively inexpensive and practical electric motorcycles for those of us who outgrew the need to be the fastest kid on the block.

I feel the same way. My Zero S is plenty fast enough for me.   

[Frank]

One of the things I like about ev's is that (other than initial cost perhaps), there 's no real penalty during normal day - to-day use.  No change in efficiency, drivability, etc.

Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk

[Crissa]

S represent! 

Yeah, I love my bike and wouldn't have as much fun on any other.  If I could have 2C charging while I was out, tho...

-Crissa

[princec]

Agreed about bike power outputs here... but the same problem is afflicting the motorcycle industry as a whole, with spiralling power outputs at odds with actual customer needs. I  hope Zero doesn't go down the "more power" route and spends the R&D money on range, quality, and farkles instead.

Cas

[JaimeC]

Agreed about bike power outputs here... but the same problem is afflicting the motorcycle industry as a whole, with spiralling power outputs at odds with actual customer needs. I  hope Zero doesn't go down the "more power" route and spends the R&D money on range, quality, and farkles instead.

Cas

For several years now I've been wondering why motorcycle manufacturers are making bikes with motors SO powerful you need all kinds of electronic "policemen" to prevent the rider from killing themselves.  I can understand why road racers would want this, but I see no reason why a street rider on public roads would want them.  When the BMW S1000RR first came out, a friend did a track day with his.  Out of curiosity, he turned off all of the rider aids for a session and found out he could barely keep the bike on the track and nearly crashed several times.  This from a guy whose ridden powerful liter bikes longer than I'd known him.

Sadly, the real reason the manufacturers pursue this is because it's what customers WANT.  The SR outsells the S even though it costs thousands more to purchase and hundreds more per year to insure BECAUSE it is more powerful, not because of any practical real world reason.  Zero has doubled down on this by not selling the larger battery in the S to give the SR one (artificial) advantage; that of increased range.  Make the same battery available in the S (in the US; Europe can still get the larger battery in the S and DS) and there is no practical advantage to the SR.

[JaimeC]

Getting back on track:  I seem to remember Zero went with Farasis because, unlike Tesla, they uses flattened, sheet-like cells and not the cylindrical ones used by Tesla.  This allows them to pack more cells more tightly together than the cylinders which would leave a lot of empty space within the battery.  In a car, battery size isn't all that important; I understand the entire chassis of a Tesla is a battery pack.  Motorcycle designers don't have that kind of freedom.

[Richard230]

Getting back on track:  I seem to remember Zero went with Farasis because, unlike Tesla, they uses flattened, sheet-like cells and not the cylindrical ones used by Tesla.  This allows them to pack more cells more tightly together than the cylinders which would leave a lot of empty space within the battery.  In a car, battery size isn't all that important; I understand the entire chassis of a Tesla is a battery pack.  Motorcycle designers don't have that kind of freedom.

That is my understanding also. But flat cells do make it more difficult to cool the battery pack. Using cylindrical cells no doubt are easier to cool when they are all packed together, especially when they are liquid cooled as they are in almost all cars. As usual, there are always trade-offs with every design decision. 

[Crissa]

Flat cells produce less heat than tabbed cylindrical cells, and you can put the cooling at the edges instead of the sides.  (Which is the two reasons the tabless design is such an improvement)

Tesla chose cylinders because they were cheap.

-Crissa

[princec]

Tesla also point out that the sides of the batteries do not get hot: it's the top and bottom that heat up.
If you look at the spaces between the packed cylindrical cells you can also see that there's not too wasted space (just under 10% in fact), and doubtless the gaps can be used for additional structure or cooling channels anyway so ... I suspect it's good.

Cas

[Richard230]

Here is a lot more information regarding Tesla's new battery design:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0xseoeriPE&feature=youtu.be

[Alan Stewart]

PS. These are not Tesla batteries. There are no Tesla batteries. Tesla is not a battery manufacturer. Panasonic supplies nearly all cells Tesla uses, making them Tesla branded Panasonic batteries.   

That has changed. They are making battery cells at the new facility in Fremont where the battery presentation was held. It is expected to produce 10 GWh/year when up to speed, which will make it (briefly) one of the largest battery cell factories in the world by output.

[Crissa]

The test factory in Fremont is running, yes.

But they plan to build full-size ones at their other facilities once they have the kinks knocked out.

Basically, Fremont is where they put pilot programs, learn how to lay things out, while the other facilities is where they multiply it.  Fremont is closest to a port and other tech facilities, so while some may be optimized for other things, Silicon Valley is optimized for development.  All the things are there.

They also said they were already testing cars with the batteries in them.

-Crissa

[Crissa]

(46*80)/21*70=2.5 not 8.

The new cells are also more space efficient, with how they go into the car; they require less adhesive, less insulation, and are more structural.  So they will be able to fit more cell mass into the same space.

-Crissa