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[karstein]

Hi all,

I’m all new into electrical bikes and am about to purchase my first. I’ve been looking at a Zero DS at the local bike store here in Denmark. I was of course looking for a brand new bike  but the dealer gave me a good offer on an unused DS from 2015. The big question is - does the fact that the bike (and especially the battery!) is +5years old have any influence on the remaining lifespan of the bike and/or battery?

Just to add some numbers to my case, it looks like this:
• A brand new 2020 model is approx 17.750€ with a 14.4kw battery
• the 2015 model is 13.400€ with a 12.5kw battery. (A saving of approximately 23%)

The new bike comes with the option to (for additionally xx€) to get the fast charge option - and as I understand it, that will not be compatible with a 2015 model. I’m not expecting to buy this feature since my plan is to use the bike for commuting to and from work (60-80k/day) and not for road trips:-)

What would the panel’s advise be in this case? Your inputs are most appreciated

[TEV]

The 2020 may have a better motor too. Always is good to have the newest one.

The "savings " that you will get from buying the old one can't be evaluated without more information: how many kilometers, there is any warranty for the bike and battery?

[Crissa]

That price on the old one is higher than we've seen in the Bay Area here.

They keep their value but... Not that much.

-Crissa

[DonTom]

Hi all,

I’m all new into electrical bikes and am about to purchase my first. I’ve been looking at a Zero DS at the local bike store here in Denmark. I was of course looking for a brand new bike  but the dealer gave me a good offer on an unused DS from 2015. The big question is - does the fact that the bike (and especially the battery!) is +5years old have any influence on the remaining lifespan of the bike and/or battery?

Just to add some numbers to my case, it looks like this:
• A brand new 2020 model is approx 17.750€ with a 14.4kw battery
• the 2015 model is 13.400€ with a 12.5kw battery. (A saving of approximately 23%)

The new bike comes with the option to (for additionally xx€) to get the fast charge option - and as I understand it, that will not be compatible with a 2015 model. I’m not expecting to buy this feature since my plan is to use the bike for commuting to and from work (60-80k/day) and not for road trips:-)

What would the panel’s advise be in this case? Your inputs are most appreciated

Go for the newer bike no matter what. You could waste a lot of money on the older bike especially if the battery craps out after the warranty expires.

A larger battery will normally last MUCH longer when used with the same load, which is the case of electric motorcycles. In fact, I have the battery life  specs right here in front of me but for year 2017 Zeros:

City riding for each,

Zero's "est. pack life to 80% (city)" :


2017 SR with     6.5KWH  battery"  :181,000 city miles (291 KM) to get down to 80% capacity.

2017 SR  with   16.3 KW of battery: 455, 000 city miles (732 KM)  to get down to 80% capacity.

Notice how 2.5 times the battery under the same load is expected to last 2.5 times as long.

So always go for the larger  battery. It could cost more to have the smaller battery after it craps out, if not covered by warranty.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[DonTom]

I’m not expecting to buy this feature since my plan is to use the bike for commuting to and from work (60-80k/day) and not for road trips:-)

And I never expected to ride my electric bikes more than around 50KM from here when I bought them. Now, I often go around 150KM or farther, but I also use it for much shorter trips.

If you're  like many of us, you have no idea what you will be using it for until you own it and get experience with it.

I use electrics for around 90% of my riding to anywhere.  The other 10% is still a problem that I need the ICE bikes for.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[karstein]

The 2020 may have a better motor too. Always is good to have the newest one.

The "savings " that you will get from buying the old one can't be evaluated without more information: how many kilometers, there is any warranty for the bike and battery?

Sorry for not being that clear.

Both of the bikes are unused and sold by an authorized dealer. So both of them are zero km, and both of them are covered by full warranty.

And just a small comment on the price tag - I live in Denmark where cars and normal bikes are taxed with up time 150% of the retail price. Electrical bikes are not taxed as hard (yet) due to the political interest of being a more environmental country.

[TheRan]

According to the Zero site the 2 year warranty with them starts 3 years after they ship the bike to the dealer, so if they've had the 2015 model sitting around for 5 years it's already ended or will soon. Likewise the 5 year warranty on the battery starts at the same time, so that will now be a 3 year warranty.

https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/en-gb/warranty

In addition to the greater capacity and better motor design the 2020 will also get you a better locking tank storage area, a bit more torque at the wheel, the wider more durable drive belt, and less weight (187kg versus 204kg). The charger on the older model could potentially be a bad one too (they've seemingly improved over time but I can't remember which year is worst for reliability). Also, for a 5 year old bike you'd probably want to replace the tyres especially if it's just been sitting around unused, so factor that into the cost. Another thing to factor into the cost is insurance, as you're in Europe the 2020 model may be one of the 11kW A1 class versions (not sure if they even sell the regular one anymore) in which case it could cost less to insure.

[leonhart_27]

Reading on the warranty: "Damage, malfunctions, or performance problems caused by modifications or alterations to 2020 Zero Motorcycles and/or Power Packs - including modifications or alterations performed by an authorized Zero dealer - that cause the 2020 Zero Motorcycle or Power Pack to fail;"

Really???

[NEW2elec]

Leonhart_27 that's mostly CYA legal speak which would still require proof of both the dealer being the sole cause of the failure and gross negligence on their behave.

TheRan yes glad to see your pointing that out as I was going to as well but...

Karstein, that warranty was an update from Zero's first one which applied to when the bike was sold.

So VERY VERY important:  Call up Zero and give them the 2015 VIN number (it's on the front frame steering tube on the right hand side) and make it clear this is a new unsold bike but what is the remainder of it's warranty.
They can tell you to the day how much longer it has or even IF it has any left.  Maybe be sure to mention your in Denmark as well as EU rules may differ.

The main point is TheRan is right on the warranty info for the 2020 bike but maybe the 2015 is Grandfathered in under the old plan, so please check.

Now if the 2015 does not have any warranty left it's priced way too high and unless they will come down to about $8-9 thousand US Dollars (sorry you have to convert it from there) then the 2020 is the clear choice in this case.

Also for what it's worth a 2015 bike has these differences to a 2020.
It has a SPM motor so the magnets are closer to the stator coils and can get hotter if riden HARD, like 130kmh for long distances.  If it over heats the bike will drop power until the motor cools.  It has a thinner belt, no charge tank and software updates have to be done at the dealer.  All of these have improved for 2020.

Now in the US the 2020 DS only comes with a 7.2 kWh battery but I think in Europe you still get the 14.4 kWh battery.  Be sure and check that out too as a 7.2 battery will be much more limited in range.  But the 14.4 battery is a much better design over all than the 2015 12.5 battery.  Which is why if it has no further warranty it's way over priced.

That's about all but good luck and I think you'll love the way they ride which ever one you get.

[karstein]

New2elec - thank you so much for elaborating! This was exactly the kind of input I needed to be able to think this through and not end up with a bad experience. Especially the points regarding parts being upgraded over the years combined with the possible issue regarding limited or no warranty talks in the favor of a 2020 bike.

Taking your points into consideration I might need to go with the 2020 model - and maybe that could be the excuse for getting the DSR over the DS B-)

[Richard230]

I would be concerned about how the 2015 bike had been stored. If it's battery pack wasn't stored between 30 and 60% SOC it might not be in perfect condition. Also, the 2015 models had chargers with a history of failing and the newer models can have their firmware updated at your home over the internet, so that you don't have to visit your dealer to have that done. Very convenient. If it was me, I would get the 2020 model.

[karstein]

Thanks for input and for your thoughts!!

After borrowing a Zero DS (the 2015model) for a week from the dealer I was sold! That instant power is just like being in the sweet spot all the time. This is hard not to fall in love with!

I actually have gone with something just in between the 2020 and a 2015. The dealer had a 2019 DSR 14.4 with the charge tank at a very good price point! Hopefully this will be a good decision (the bike on the pictures below)

[Richard230]

I think you hit on a good compromise with the 2019 Zero. That was a good year.