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[DonTom]

Tesla says never to charge off of a generator, too.

And in many cases they are correct. But it's because the waveshape out of some generators can damage the chargers used in EVs. Some are much better than others. Some HFT generators I would not use for anything other than lights. But I checked the waveshape and frequency of the Onan generator output  in my RV and it is a perfect sinewave and at 60.0 hz until 3.5 KW  where it slows down a bit, but that is its max spec anyway.   So I use it to charge my Zero (up to 2.4 KW)  without issues during many of my RV trips in locations where there is no other juice. I would never just connect a Zero to a generator without checking the waveform  & frequency first. Tesla writes their manuals for the average non-technical person, so they will simply say do not do such. But they also realize that those who can and know how to check a generator output waveshape will know to ignore such info from Tesla or Zero, etc. if it checks okay, as mine did.

BTW, Tesla has their own portable diesel generators to charge Teslas with. They used to have a temporary one or two on I-5 on a very crowded weekend to have a couple of quick extra charge stations where they thought they will probably be needed. The gas companies and other anti EVers  loved to make a big joke out of that!

Also see here.

So even Tesla themselves charge their own cars via generator. But no doubt they are as clean as can be. But perhaps the L3 don't even count as that is DC anyway. But it's okay to use a clean generator on L2 (or L1) as well, as long as the waveshape  is about as clean as the AC in your home.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

Evidence not provided.

-Crissa

The last line of the below quote from Page 96 of the Energica manual is all the evidence I need.

"WARNING! Porolonged usage of DC charging mode and/or using this mode only may stress the batteries and reduce battery life.

We recommend using both DC and AC modes to charge the battery, preferring AC mode when possible."

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

Again, evidence not provided, Don.

So no, and no.

-Crissa

[DonTom]

Again, evidence not provided, Don.

So no, and no.

-Crissa

So be sure to tell Energica!

-Don-

[Crissa]

Are you done with fallacies, Don?

-Crissa

[JaimeC]

Don isn't making the allegation.  He is quoting Energica's owner's manual.  I'm reasonably sure a company the size of Energica has qualified engineers AND lawyers who recommended that addition to the owner's manual which is in WRITING.  Any issues with those statements should be taken up with the engineers and legal team at Energica.  Don has no need to defend a third-party documented warning.  The smart thing for him to do is to take their advice as it was given for a REASON.  I know if I spend the kind of money Energica charges for their bikes I'd heed EVERY warning they gave me.  Hell, I even pay attention to all the warnings in the Zero owner's manual.

[DonTom]

Don isn't making the allegation.  He is quoting Energica's owner's manual.  I'm reasonably sure a company the size of Energica has qualified engineers AND lawyers who recommended that addition to the owner's manual which is in WRITING.  Any issues with those statements should be taken up with the engineers and legal team at Energica.  Don has no need to defend a third-party documented warning.  The smart thing for him to do is to take their advice as it was given for a REASON.  I know if I spend the kind of money Energica charges for their bikes I'd heed EVERY warning they gave me.  Hell, I even pay attention to all the warnings in the Zero owner's manual.

And there is little doubt the reason Energica won't give a 5 year warranty on their batteries as Zero does, is because of the CCS charging  capability at above 25 KW. They know people buy Energicas mainly for the CCS charging, but that comes at a price.

I find it amazing that a Energica battery can safely be charged just above 25 KW, which is above 2C. But more life expectantly if charged at 3 KW or less is to be expected.  A lot less heat in the battery at 3 KW.

-Don-  Cold Springs Valley, NV

[Crissa]

Neither Energica's manual nor Don has provided evidence of Don's claim that DC charging is bad for the battery.

-Crissa

[ultrarnr]

It's not Don's claim, it is Energica's statement from their manual.

[Crissa]

Neither Energica's manual nor Don has provided evidence of Don's claim that DC charging is bad for the battery.

-Crissa

[DonTom]

Again, evidence not provided, Don.

So no, and no.

-Crissa

"In addition to external heat potentially shortening the usable life of a battery, operating batteries at high charge and discharge rates can have another negative impact. That is particularly true for fast DC charging a battery pack at a rate of 50 kW for as little as 30 minutes (the expected time to charge a BEV 80%). If done every day, that would generate enough heat to reduce the battery’s capacity. "

See here.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

Neither Energica's manual nor Don has provided evidence of Don's claim that DC charging is bad for the battery.

-Crissa

[princec]

You could, you know, just take their word for it. I doubt they put it in their manual for a laugh at owners' expense.

Cas

[Crissa]

Their word is 'may'.  Which means they don't know all the edge cases so here they're giving advice because they don't want to be more technical or be wrong.

And if you do fastest charge every night, before putting it away, well, yeah.  But it's not the charging doing it, is it?  It's leaving it charged all night instead of spending half as much time (or less) full.

There's too many moving parts here.  But it's incorrect to just say one type of charging is bad for the cells, there's no evidence for it.

-Crissa

[DonTom]

But it's incorrect to just say one type of charging is bad for the cells, there's no evidence for it.

IOW, you don't buy that to charge every day to the very limit of their upper spec decreases the life expectancy lithium-ion and lithium polymer  EV batteries.

Can you find just one link anywhere that agrees with you?

-Don-  Reno, NV