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[Richard230]

Here is a direct comparison between the Livewire and the Zero SR/F with lots of instrumented numbers and interesting comments. As you might expect, the $9K more expensive Livewire came out on top of the Zero in most areas of performance, range, handling and build quality.
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-reviews/2020-harley-davidson-livewire-vs-zero-motorcycles-srf-premium/

[Crissa]

I think costing about 50% more is more than 'sticker shock'.

-Crissa

[princec]

It's a really good review.

As for H-D... why didn't they look at Tesla's Supercharging deal? (ie. free supercharging for life for buying their halo car). That would be an excellent carrot, and cost them literally a few quid a year per customer, and luring punters into H-D showrooms periodically too for coffee & cake...

Cas

[Fran K]

They could weigh them but not get under them with a tape measure for ground clearence?

Without reading the whole thing do they actually say what the battery capacity is in term of nominal?  It seems real common to count max voltage times amp hours and we all know the voltage drops as the charge % goes down at least with the lithium based batteries.

[MVetter]

It's a really good review.

As for H-D... why didn't they look at Tesla's Supercharging deal? (ie. free supercharging for life for buying their halo car). That would be an excellent carrot, and cost them literally a few quid a year per customer, and luring punters into H-D showrooms periodically too for coffee & cake...

Cas

I'm not sure exactly what you're implying H-D should do but Tesla has been trying to rid themselves of that deal for the last few years as it's HEMORRHAGING money for them. The deal is gone from all new vehicles as well as used vehicles that previously had it as soon they change ownership.

Without reading the whole thing do they actually say what the battery capacity is in term of nominal?  It seems real common to count max voltage times amp hours and we all know the voltage drops as the charge % goes down at least with the lithium based batteries.

They don't but I can tell you if you'd like to know. The LiveWire is 13.6kWh and the SR/F is 11.6kWh.

[Richard230]

I was wondering about the Livewire's motor revving to 14K, compared with the Zero's motor topping out at 7K rpm.  Would that affect the longevity of the Livewire's motor?  And are there advantages to a high revving electric motor over a low revving model?

The power and torque curves were something of a contrast between the two motors, also. 

[heroto]

I think the power and torque differences at lower rpm reflects a programming decision Zero made, for safety or something else.
The testers fail to appreciate level 2 vs level 3 in the US at present. The older guy clearly is clueless on the difference. Zero wins this one, at least for now.
IMO, HD has made a much better riding and handling moto over a wider variety of road conditions. Zero aimed at glass smooth pavement and track days, and hit that mark. O/w the video review is spot on.
The testers totally missed that the HD has no grip heaters or luggage options, which are fatal flaw issues for commuters and cold weather riders.

[MVetter]

Zero aimed at glass smooth pavement and track days

Track days? The bike is completely air cooled.

[DonTom]

I was wondering about the Livewire's motor revving to 14K, compared with the Zero's motor topping out at 7K rpm.  Would that affect the longevity of the Livewire's motor?  And are there advantages to a high revving electric motor over a low revving model?

The power and torque curves were something of a contrast between the two motors, also. 

I would expect it kinda works like ICE motors. IOW, they are designed for different speeds  for various reasons and that doesn't mean high revving is more unreliable in a different design.

My Harley, for an example revs very low. So red line is low. My TTSE Revs high, so the red line is also high. Revving as high on the Harley engine would destroy it. The redline on my TTSE is more than twice the speed of my Harley. Either engine should last a few hundred thousand miles.

I cannot think of any logical reason why an electric motor designed speed would be much different. Just another engineering decision.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[stevenh]

Here is a direct comparison between the Livewire and the Zero SR/F with lots of instrumented numbers and interesting comments. As you might expect, the $9K more expensive Livewire came out on top of the Zero in most areas of performance, range, handling and build quality.
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-reviews/2020-harley-davidson-livewire-vs-zero-motorcycles-srf-premium/

Very interesting article.  I was surprised by the Livewire's acceleration numbers (beating the Zero) both in the quarter and high speed pass tests given the posted specifications on horsepower and torque on each bike.  For me, other than the 10K difference in price, lack of Level 2 charging @ 6KW would be a deal breaker for me at this point (in Zero's favor).  There are nearly zero level 3 chargers in this neck of the woods, and more importantly, none in my garage or in my work parking lot (there are Level 2's at both locations, not that the works side matters this spring).  I'll have to give a Livewire a test ride one of these days, but plan to stick with my SR/F for a while.

Steve

[stargazerinwg]

I saw both of these bikes at an auto show in January and although I am biased towards Zero, the Livewire looked good.  The review is really informative; I would have expected the Zero to out-perform the Livewire given the HP and weight numbers.  It is disappointing that they found flaws in fit and finish on the SR/F.  I really didn't expect the Livewire to come away the winner.

[heroto]

MVetter: yes track days! There are lots of posts about this, youtubes etc. The SR/F doesn't have the overheating issues of earlier generation Zeroes. Of course at track speeds, the range is pretty short.

[Biff]

The range information in the video is different than what they wrote in the article. In the video they indicated they the SR/F went a few miles farther then the Livewire, and the way they spliced the footage together indicates that too. Either way, I would consider a single test with different riders on the same road that ended withing a few miles difference between bikes inconclusive or approximately the same, since riding gear, riding style, body position , or even tire pressure could cause more than a couple miles of difference in range to either bike.

Also I wouldn't read to far into the nervous feel, suspension issues or other rideability opinions. These are riders who nitpick bikes for their living, they are comparing two well refined bikes, and pointing out subtle differences with bikes as they came from the factory, i.e no suspension setting adjustments. If small differences in handling are a really big issue to you, you will need to test ride the bikes yourself, however I suspect the difference in suspension feel and handling feel when riding near the limits of the bikes will have much less impact on people's decision when purchasing one of these bikes, compared to appearance, seating position, charging options, and available accessories, and dealer location.

And I am still waiting for one of these comparisons to include a bike from Energica, it is like they can't find a third person willing to ride an electric bike for a day 😉


-ryan

[MVetter]

MVetter: yes track days! There are lots of posts about this, youtubes etc. The SR/F doesn't have the overheating issues of earlier generation Zeroes. Of course at track speeds, the range is pretty short.

It definitely does. 2 laps max at Seca before thermal cutback. It's *better* than previous models but the battery is still functionally the same and takes a while to cool off.

And I am still waiting for one of these comparisons to include a bike from Energica, it is like they can't find a third person willing to ride an electric bike for a day 😉

I am very much looking forward to the next time you're in our area. Let us know when and we'll try and find an Energica for you play around on if you've not had the chance.

[Richard230]

The other thing to ponder is that Cycle World is kept afloat by advertising.  When was the last time you saw a Zero ad in a Cycle World magazine and how often do you see one for Harley Davidson?  That might have affected the article's spin a bit.