ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: DonTom on May 31, 2025, 03:10:47 PM
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What a day!
My 2020 SS9-
First, I ride through the CA mountains near Markleeville, CA down Monitor Pass and then to the EV-Range DCFCs in Coleville, CA, on Hwy 395. Was a real hassle, all types of issues. I have used EV-Range before, but these chargers are made by a different company than the other EV-Ranges I have seen.
I get past the initiation screen, and it starts charging but at 0.00 watts. No matter what I tried, but the screen on the bike as well as on the DC Fast Charger said I was charging at 0.00 watts. After five minutes, I call the number on the machine, and they could not figure out anything. The charger stops after five minutes of no power.
I used the EV-Go in Gardnerville, NV, a couple of hours before this and it worked fine. Even with EV-Go's Autocharge Plus even (plug in and walk away just like with Tesla--no RFID card, no App needed--nothing needed, worked perfectly).
I just barely had enough juice left to get back to Garnerville, same EV-Go charger, as long as I ride slow.
Guess what?
Now even EV-Go is "Charging" at zero KW! So I drive a half mile to the ChargePoint and it gives me a charging error right away. So now my SS9- is not fast charging anywhere at all. Regen still normal. AC charging still okay. There is an AC charger there and I charged up at 3KW enough to get to Carson City for another AC charge but never made it to the next AC charge station!
In south CC, I ran over something (or whatever) that I did not see. I look at my TPMS and my rear tire is losing PSI superfast, ~5 PSI per second. I pull over right away and then I call for a tow truck. I just now got home at 0200 hrs!
I look at the rear tire and I cannot find any damage to it by rotating the tire 90° at a time. So I have no idea what happened. I will take a better look after I get the tire off the bike.
This is the short version! Everything possible went wrong today!
I will start troubleshooting why no DCFC in the next few days. Anybody here have any idea what is the possible cause? Again, regen is fine, even at ~20KW with a fast slowdown from a higher speed, and also ac charging is fine. Just no DCFC.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Hellooo,
Sad to hear ....
But probably you've blown your 75 Amp DC Charge fuse...there's a reason later models had 100 Amp fuses 😉
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Hellooo,
Sad to hear ....
But probably you've blown your 75 Amp DC Charge fuse...there's a reason later models had 100 Amp fuses 😉
How do I get to that fuse?
-Don- Reno, NV
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A little good news on the tire. It was just a hole, just the correct size for a plug. It's a newer tire and I am not crazy about riding with a plug, but I have done it many times without any issues for thousands of miles. I must have run over a board with a nail in it that stayed with the board. Whatever it was, I felt it, but didn't see it, as it was dark already.
I could have done this repair last night in the dark with what I had with me, but I didn't then know that would have saved time compared to calling a tow truck, even though I needed another 3KW charge or two to get home.
My Zero DS has now been plugged for several years, not the slightest leak. Hopefully it will be the same for my SS9-. At least the bike is now rideable, even of no DCFC as long as I have an hour or so to charge at each of my stops at 3KW.
I take it the charging fuse (inside the battery case?) has no effect on regen. I assume the regen takes a different path into the battery.
I forgot to mention in the last post there are NO error messages in "Service" listed.
Are these the symptoms of a blown (75-amp) charging fuse?
So what is the best way to fix my DC fast charging issue? Perhaps get the bike to SSF? At least now I can get the bike closer by driving it to my Auburn house, after a LONG wait at Cisco Grove with 3 KW AC charging.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Glad you were able to get home safe, sounds like an adventure.
If the bike initiates a DC charge session but the charge screen shows 0A 0kWh in the top right corner that is a pretty good indication the DC charge fuse has been tripped. However there are a few easy things to check that might also result in the same behavior.
*Please note all the HV wires on the bike should be deenergized when the bike is keyed off*
Inspect the DC charge connector. This is a large orange plug under the tank fairings near the seat latch. It connects the HV pins of the charge port to the battery. It should have a white locking tab that needs to be slid up before you can depress the release button. The wires are stiff and the connector has gaskets so it will be hard to unplug. Inspect the pins on both sides of the connector, they will wiggle a little and that is normal. Next use a multimeter to check continuity between the pins on the charge port side and the DC pins of the charge port (lower 2 large pins). These have plastic tips so make sure you are actually contacting the metal parts. If you measure a good connection reconnect the plug (make sure it is fully seated) and try to DC charge the bike again.
If you see 0A | 0kWh odds are good the issue is the fuse.
The fuse is there to provide over current protection to protect the cells from being charged at a rate higher than specification. It has not been an issue for a long time but there was a period many years ago where some EVGO stations had a voltage spike at the start of the session. This resulted in a input current that exceeded that of the fuse causing it to be tripped.
There was a firmware update that added additional over voltage monitoring and would end a charge session if there was a voltage spike. I also believe EVGO corrected the issue with a firmware update of the offending stations. We also started installing DC charge fuses with a higher current limit to provide additional headroom.
The fuse is inside the battery case on 13.4 bikes, the pack will need to be opened requiring it to be removed from the bike. The fuse is located in the "basement" on 21.5 bikes which can be accessed without battery removal.
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Glad you were able to get home safe, sounds like an adventure.
If the bike initiates a DC charge session but the charge screen shows 0A 0kWh in the top right corner that is a pretty good indication the DC charge fuse has been tripped. However there are a few easy things to check that might also result in the same behavior.
*Please note all the HV wires on the bike should be deenergized when the bike is keyed off*
Inspect the DC charge connector. This is a large orange plug under the tank fairings near the seat latch. It connects the HV pins of the charge port to the battery. It should have a white locking tab that needs to be slid up before you can depress the release button. The wires are stiff and the connector has gaskets so it will be hard to unplug. Inspect the pins on both sides of the connector, they will wiggle a little and that is normal. Next use a multimeter to check continuity between the pins on the charge port side and the DC pins of the charge port (lower 2 large pins). These have plastic tips so make sure you are actually contacting the metal parts. If you measure a good connection reconnect the plug (make sure it is fully seated) and try to DC charge the bike again.
If you see 0A | 0kWh odds are good the issue is the fuse.
The fuse is there to provide over current protection to protect the cells from being charged at a rate higher than specification. It has not been an issue for a long time but there was a period many years ago where some EVGO stations had a voltage spike at the start of the session. This resulted in a input current that exceeded that of the fuse causing it to be tripped.
There was a firmware update that added additional over voltage monitoring and would end a charge session if there was a voltage spike. I also believe EVGO corrected the issue with a firmware update of the offending stations. We also started installing DC charge fuses with a higher current limit to provide additional headroom.
The fuse is inside the battery case on 13.4 bikes, the pack will need to be opened requiring it to be removed from the bike. The fuse is located in the "basement" on 21.5 bikes which can be accessed without battery removal.
I was hoping you would reply!
If the problem happened from EV-Go, it would have had to have happened near the end of the charge, because that charge worked perfectly until I stopped the charge at 85% SOC, IIRC. A spike when the charge was stopped, perhaps? I did stop the charge from the bike, by turning it on and using the mode button.
I assume the problem was at ColeVille, because it took a lot of force to get the connector on so it would click. Those chargers are very new and that could be making them extra tight and difficult to use on my 2020 SS9-.
But there is no way for me to know for sure where the problem started.
I was just about ready to remove the "tank" covers to check things in there. I will check and clean the plug with some contact cleaner and then go to a local DCFC and see what happens.
If it is the fuse inside the battery pack, what do you suggest I do? I can at least ride the bike back to my Auburn, CA house where it is closer to SSF.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I think the odds are good that I discovered the problem. Something very simple I should have checked, but I didn't even think about it until you mentioned the orange connector.
Anyway, I got the orange connector apart and it became obvious what it was (to the HV pins of the CCS connector) when I saw it was only two large wires. So I figured I will check the continuity from the pins to the connector. Before I could get my ohmmeter leads onto the CCS HV connector, I noticed a piece of plastic in the bottom of the HV negative side. I have no idea where that piece of plastic came from, but I was able to feed it out below the connector where there is some open space, using a screwdriver with some force. For some unknown reason, it was stuck very tight in there and I could not simply lift it out with any toots, but I was able to move it. Perhaps smashed down tight from the charge connector in Coleville. Or perhaps somewhat melted in there.
This piece of plastic not only explains why I would probably get zero charge current, it also explains why it was so difficult to get the connector on in Coleville. That little piece of plastic was blocking a normal connection.
Anyway, I just now need to put the bike back together and test it on a DCFC here in Reno.
On the opposite side of this connector, side towards the front, it reads infinite resistance. I assume that is normal.
-Don- Reno, NV
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They make a product called Ride On. NO I'S NOT SLIME. Its similar but works much better imo. Squirt a bottle in the tire then take it for about a minute slow ride and you are good to go. it makes its way around the tire and if you have any leaks that are not gaping like you ran over a spark plug, like i did one time, it'll seal them right up in a few seconds.
it's also non flammable and i think non toxic as well, and as an added bonus it somehow helps to balance the tire. If it's off a bit, the centrifugal kick will cause the stuff to move slightly more and even things out. if the bike sits a long time and it settles down a bit, just give it about a block of riding and it'll redistribute inside the tire and be good to go again.
I have a real bad problem of finding run over and poke holes in my tires stuff on the road, so used to run it all the time. hitting a nail on a 200 dollar tire after 50 miles would piss mother Theresa off!!
Now that both my bikes are race bikes I don't use it in the ego or ribelle but it works in the experia just fine. only reason i don't use it in the racers / mixed modes is, a waste for a tire that might not see 500 miles before getting changed, otherwise it'd be there too
https://ride-on.com/
Aaron
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Yeah, the latch is supervised with a switch in the handle, so if it does not come down fully, the proximity line will be de-asserted and no current can flow for safety.
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Yeah, the latch is supervised with a switch in the handle, so if it does not come down fully, the proximity line will be de-asserted and no current can flow for safety.
I am hoping to check it today on a DCFC, but I am having an issue with the rear tire leaking. I think there could be another leak (very small puncture) right next to the main larger plugged hole.
It could mean I need to replace the rear tire or at least need have it patched from the inside.
-Don- Reno, NV
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It could mean I need to replace the rear tire or at least need have it patched from the inside.
-Don- Reno, NV
Glad to hear you've solved the DC charge issue.
Good luck finding a shop that will repair motorcycle tires...frustrating as heck having to buy new shoes when there's plenty of tread remaining.
The following is highly recommended and represents good value to spend your hard earned money on, particularly if you have multiple street bikes.
https://us.rabaconda.com/collections/street (https://us.rabaconda.com/collections/street)
https://www.stopngo.com/products/7856 (https://www.stopngo.com/products/7856)
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Glad to hear you've solved the DC charge issue.
Not yet known if I did or not. I first need to get the bike to a DCFC which I would have done by now if it were not for the tire problem.
I figure the odds of the plastic being the issue to be around 50-50%. BTW, it was hard to notice because it was the same shade of black as my CCS receptacle.
It looks like the tire hole is more of a long tear and too large to be plugged. I ordered one of those mushroom guns (https://www.amazon.com/GRAND-PITSTOP-Tubeless-Punctures-Motorcycles/dp/B0CQRRCWXG/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=1HCFEBELHIBYS&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.4tkLWK9aV938Ga_XWpQece-Y5G9SaYnNKQZZX2a_eXQN3FTYR-xlOuKgeZkAtP_dUa0biJsYhhFizmiftY9yFt6L0v545gMVnxFsEn0hSQpYfS4rFrNv21YPch0x8RUnzLgAS1NXK9qW1WtLNpBskEOxvvFy4_fXWrIb-Mr1BlulGSlcx8ALHgA6_XWoh-XLBmc0Ex8tEdpDVoiXyHKY9Wp03YB-ho4zsdh2EnqYKjvjuXLk_0QcYri3VlEJijtGGAHCj5OViN7Cwuj55JsWNHtSKuO3VvjRyBr53ITrcVg.W-nHtm2cWXEIhLqalntjD37wfexXUWx5EpQS25Gbg7U&dib_tag=se&keywords=tire%2Bplug%2Bgun&qid=1748808635&sprefix=tire%2Bplug%2Bgun%2Caps%2C202&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1) as they can usually plug a larger hole. I will have that in a couple of days.
I also ordered this. (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CNPNG55P/ref=sw_img_1?smid=AHQBFG50V6W62&psc=1) Both should be here tomorrow.
If that stuff doesn't work, and seem perfectly safe (which I kinda doubt at this point), I will take the tire off and have it replaced. I don't care much about the cost of the new tire, just the work involved--with no center-stand.
My first trip with this bike after I take care of the tire issue with be to the closest DCFC station. But I am not yet sure when that will be.
-Don- Reno, NV
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A patch on the inside of the tire might work if the tire cords are not damaged. ???
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A patch on the inside of the tire might work if the tire cords are not damaged. ???
I get the feeling that this tire has some major damage, I decided I am going to replace the tire--if I can figure out how to get the wheel up by myself. I had help last time, but that guy died the exact same day I had my Experia delivered.
I like my SS9- a lot. I can pretty much go anywhere I want to with it these days, as there are enough charge stations to match its shorter range which I find to be enough. I was going to ride it down to Bridgeport the other day but never made it, for obvious reasons. And this bike has NO bugs and the screen is easier to use than the Experia.
I have no idea what I ran over, but whatever it was, it must have been designed to damage tires!
-Don- Reno, NV
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I now have the rear wheel off the ground, wasn't that hard. I know those with experience (not me) can do it with no problem just by using the stand in the rear.
But I was too chicken to try that and used three tools to get the rear wheel up in the air. The front chock to hold the bike, the small jack to lift it (with a hockey puck on the lift plate) and the Energica stand on the rear.
I will not even try to repair the tire at this point; it will be replaced on Tuesday and perhaps I will get to a DCFC the same day.
Some pix, now to remove the wheel:
-Don- Reno, NV
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In case anybody is interested, here is the thingy that holds the bike by the front wheel:
https://youtu.be/Ruzo6kp3cMg
-Don- Reno, NV
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basement of 21,5kWh battery (this is 2022 or 2023 model)
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Eaton Bussman 100 Amp fuse. Easy to replace, nice! Haha
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Eaton Bussman 100 Amp fuse. Easy to replace, nice! Haha
But not in the case of my 75-amp fuse. A very big hassle, from what I understand so far.
Hopefully that is not the problem. But I should find out in the next couple of days.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Now that I have the rear wheel off the bike and carefully checked it, I can now see why the tire cannot be plugged. It is not a hole, but a tear, which makes sense, since whatever I ran over, stayed on the road. Tears cannot be plugged.
Tire, with only a few hundred miles on it, will be replaced with a new one, most likely tomorrow. These days just about every motorcycle repair place is closed today, Monday.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I was in the same area on Saturday. The weekend (5/30 to 6/1) was the BARF Rally (Bay Area Riders Forum) in Jackson CA. I rode on Saturday from Jackson to Walker for some Mountain View BBQ. Highway 88 and 89 to 395. I used those EV Range Chargers at the Walker Country Store. Funny thing was my phone did a software update when I got to the charger. I couldnt use the app so I had to initiate it with a credit card like a luddite with no phone. Lol. It worked just fine.
Funny thing, I also got a flat. On 89 a few miles from Markleeville. Mine was a regular puncture so I plugged it and carried on without issue. I was on the lookout for another EV bike since I was out and about in your stomping grounds.
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I was in the same area on Saturday. The weekend (5/30 to 6/1) was the BARF Rally (Bay Area Riders Forum) in Jackson CA. I rode on Saturday from Jackson to Walker for some Mountain View BBQ. Highway 88 and 89 to 395. I used those EV Range Chargers at the Walker Country Store. Funny thing was my phone did a software update when I got to the charger. I couldnt use the app so I had to initiate it with a credit card like a luddite with no phone. Lol. It worked just fine.
Funny thing, I also got a flat. On 89 a few miles from Markleeville. Mine was a regular puncture so I plugged it and carried on without issue. I was on the lookout for another EV bike since I was out and about in your stomping grounds.
The OP was at 0200 hrs on Saturday, which means all of this happened to me on Friday, June 30.
I used the Tesla Magic Doc in Jackson on 20, Aug 2024, and left a photo of my bike there.
With EV range, a real computer can be used, I carry a small laptop as well as my Smartphone. But AFAIK, EV-Ranges does not have RFID cards which I normally use with other charge stations.
EV-Range says their logs never supplied any power to my bike any of the times I tried. If that is true, it is not possible for the fuse to blow.
Before Coleville, I stopped the AutoCharge+ from the EV-GO charger in Garnerville. I stopped it from the bike's mode switch at 85% SOC. I wonder if a spike is possible when the charger is stopped.
I also charged up a bit more in Alpine Village, but that is an AC charge (Chargepoint J-plug).
Next was a ride down Monitor Pass and to Coleville where I have yet to get a successful charge. I also tried to charge there (unsuccessful) with my Experia on 25, May 2024, but I think those chargers were changed out since then. The Coleville chargers look very new and not from a company that EV-Range normally use at other charge stations.
Anyway, if my problem proves to be the piece of black plastic that was stuck in my Charge Port, I will take a ride to Coleville again, making sure I have enough juice to get back to Garnerville.
-Don- Reno, NV
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@DonTom You're also on BARF, right?
Any interest in the Hawthorne Rally in September?
The hotel we stay at has regular outlets outside that they let you plug into overnight. I think I even checked in on Plugshare there.
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@DonTom You're also on BARF, right?
Any interest in the Hawthorne Rally in September?
The hotel we stay at has regular outlets outside that they let you plug into overnight. I think I even checked in on Plugshare there.
Yes, you did on 24, September 2024 at the Travelodge. I checked in at the rest stop there with my Experia when the DCFC was working, also after using the J-1772 @ 3KW, then on to Luning where I got a DCFC.
I will now check the info. on BARF.
-Don- Reno, NV
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@DonTom You're also on BARF, right?
Any interest in the Hawthorne Rally in September?
The hotel we stay at has regular outlets outside that they let you plug into overnight. I think I even checked in on Plugshare there.
What are the dates?
What I think I will do is take my RV to the Whisky Flats RV park in Hawthorne, and then ride my Zero DS over to the motel you guys are staying at. I always take my Zero DS on my motorhome trips. From there, I will probably head to Flagstaff, AZ, which is usually nice during that time of year.
In other news, I will now head out to pick up my new mounted tire and get it installed on the bike and head for a DCFC and see what happens.
The tire had less than a thousand miles on it, the shop says new tires pick up more stuff from the road, so they see this happen with newer tires a lot. However, whatever I hit (it was dark, and I didn't see it) would have torn up any tire. It did not leave anything in the tire, as it felt like I ran over a board or whatever.
Tire was just under $300.00, mounted.
-Don- Reno, NV
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September 5 - 7. I'm going to miss this years Hawthorne Rally as me and a buddy are riding a loop through Canada to check Lolo Pass off the bucket rides list. I will be at the other three though. Me and my 30,000 mile Experia. :)
https://bayarearidersforum.com/forums/threads/barf-rallys-2025-reservations-open.562674/
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i got the new tire mounted and took a ride to the local EV-GO DCFC charge station here in Reno.
Bad news. Still tries to charge at 0.0 watts.
Bike can still be used with the 3.3 KW AC input charger, so the bike is still useful for some things.
Now I need to decide what to do, perhaps nothing and leave it as is, but I need to first ask a few questions for me to make the decision:
Is the shop in SSF still open these days?
Can I fix the thing myself? Any special tools needed? Has anybody here replaced the fuse in the 2020 SS9- or similar bike?
If so, how much time does it take? Can it be a one-man job?
And if I do fix it myself, should I replace the 75-amp fuse with a 100-amp?
EV-Range says they never put a drop of power into my bike, from looking at their logs, in Coleville, CA. Of course, a 75-amp fuse cannot blow with no power to it.
The DCFC before this was an EV-GO in Garnerville, NV. That charge went perfect, from what I could tell, but I stopped the charge from the bike at 85% SOC. Could there have been a spike when the power was shut down?
I am just trying to figure out what happened. Any other possibilities?
-Don- Reno, NV
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Energica is still open in San Fran, give them a visit they are a really great group there. Some parts may become available soon, a bird tells me.
New tires don't really pick up more stuff off the roads. if anything, they are slippery from the release agent from the mold at manufacturing, so be careful for the first dozen miles or so, out to maybe 100 miles on turns as you don't always lean to get the slip off the sides like a track run would do in a lap or two. But yes it sucks when a new 200 plus tire gets eaten. Which is where the ride-on stuff works.
Check with the new england shop, he may have some parts for you too. id put the 100 amp in if that's what they have been doing, since the bike will soft stop it at 75, having a few extra amps headroom is good. 85 percent is not quite where it starts to taper the charge off yet, so if you were charging the bike at close to max 75a that fuse is going to be very warm anyways due to how close to it's limit it is, so yeah a few extra amps for even a short time can pop a hot fuse. a 100 gives you the thermal mass to keep that from happening.
aaron
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I forgot I had the PDF service manual for this bike. It does show how to remove the battery. As I expected, it looks like a big hassle to remove the battery and to reinstall it.
But it doesn't seem to even mention how to get to the 75-amp use, or that it even exists.
Anyway, it's probably not even worth fixing--all because of a fuse, which seems a bit ridiculous, IMO.
AT least I can still ride the bike and charge at 3.3 KW, but there will be no more long trips on it.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Youtube video, take out battery
https://youtu.be/cNa336AWdwU?si=UbDwQYkVHHUfrTjB (https://youtu.be/cNa336AWdwU?si=UbDwQYkVHHUfrTjB)
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Youtube video, take out battery
https://youtu.be/cNa336AWdwU?si=UbDwQYkVHHUfrTjB (https://youtu.be/cNa336AWdwU?si=UbDwQYkVHHUfrTjB)
Thanks, that will be very helpful, but did it really take four people as shown at 0930? Can it be a one-man job?
And when the battery is out, where is the 75-amp fuse located?
-Don- Reno, NV
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BTW, I forgot to mention that piece of plastic I found in there perhaps did have something to do with why the fuse blew. It could have caused an intermittent connection.
I noticed yesterday at the same charger I have used before that the charge cable CCS plug went on MUCH easier than in the past.
BTW, this bike often charges at 24KW (as indicated on the screen). At 300 volts (battery voltage), that is 80 amps. How did Energica come up originally that should be a 75-amp fuse?
But I assume the 300 volts is only at max charge where the charge current drops. But it stills seems too low to me, and I see Energica later agreed when they went with 100 amp fuses
I assume they found many with blown 75-amp fuses.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I am still trying to decide if I want to remove the battery myself. The only tool I do not have that is required is the "hydraulic jack" but I assume this will work (https://www.harborfreight.com/1-ton-capacity-foldable-shop-crane-58794.html) to lift the bike above the battery. It says it will lift to 84" (7 feet) or 2.13 meters above the ground. Or perhaps this one. (https://www.harborfreight.com/2-ton-capacity-foldable-shop-crane-58755.html)
I am not sure if even that is enough when I see how long the battery is in the bike.
Anybody know the weight & length (I didn't take the side cover off yet) of the battery by itself? I am just trying to get as much info. as possible before I decide if I want to do this job myself--or even do it at all and just live with the 3.3 KW charging.
-Don- Reno, NV
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fuses are in the alu part at bottom - i posted picture already
to change that you dont have to fully remove battery - probably you can do it wihtout any stand - just lie down under bike
about voltage
energica has 80 cells in seriers in battery pack
in theory and depend of cells models 100% its 4,2-4,25V) and 0% is about 2,8-3,2V
in real world 100% is about 4,14-4,18V and 0-1% is about 3,3V per cell (deep 0% 3,10V)
this means voltage range 250-334VDC
I saw somewhere long time ago charging curve and max current was up to about 40-45% if I remember correclty - at this SoC voltage shouldbe 285-295V I think - so if it was really 24kW it possible real current was 80A thats why fuses are blowing and they replace it later
When I repair my SS9+ I will definanelty measure real current by DC clamp meter
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fuses are in the alu part at bottom - i posted picture already
to change that you dont have to fully remove battery - probably you can do it wihtout any stand - just lie down under bike
Your bike is NOT the 13.4 KWH battery from year 2019/2020.
See the message here. (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=13516.msg130474#msg130474) The 2nd to the last sentence in the last paragraph there is the important one.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Yeah uhhh the 13.4 pack is really heavy. You could do it as a one man job with the right tools but if I were you I'd have someone else on standby in case it decides not to cooperate.
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Yeah uhhh the 13.4 pack is really heavy. You could do it as a one man job with the right tools but if I were you I'd have someone else on standby in case it decides not to cooperate.
Well, I am not sure if that is good or bad news. It probably means when the battery is on the ground, the bike should be a lot lighter to lift above the battery.
Have you done such a job before? It sounds like you have. Would the HFT lifts I posted work to lift the bike above the battery? What did you use for that?
What could happen as a one-man job? I need to know the tricky parts of doing this job. Perhaps I can find somebody else to help when I get to that part of the job.
IIRC, the 13.4 battery is heavier than the 21.5 KWH battery. Has something to do with the way it is cooled?
FWIW, I am still undecided if I will do this job at all.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Yeah, you never want to run a thermal fuse at close to it's rating, it will thermal cycle too much and eventually nuisance-blow.
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Yeah, you never want to run a thermal fuse at close to it's rating, it will thermal cycle too much and eventually nuisance-blow.
Yeah, as it heats up the resistance will increase allowing more voltage across the fuse, in effect lowering its current value.
Energica should have asked one of us many years ago! :) They had to learn the hard way, instead. At my expense, in this case! >:(
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Yeah, you never want to run a thermal fuse at close to it's rating, it will thermal cycle too much and eventually nuisance-blow.
Yeah, as it heats up the resistance will increase allowing more voltage across the fuse, in effect lowing its current value.
Energica should have asked one of us many years ago! :) They had to learn the hard way, instead. At my expense, in this case! >:(
I have 32A AC breakerfor tesla mobile connector - and I often charge with full power (32A) for several hours, tesla even take a little more than 32A (usually 32,3 but sometimes even 33A) - and in 2-3years I have no problem with this
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I have 32A AC breakerfor tesla mobile connector - and I often charge with full power (32A) for several hours, tesla even take a little more than 32A (usually 32,3 but sometimes even 33A) - and in 2-3years I have no problem with this
What voltage are you using?
I use a Tesla Wall Connector at each of my houses, 240 VAC @ 48-amps. My 2018 Tesla M3 has a 12 KW AC input charger. I charge it at ~11,520 watts. I also use this to charge my motorcycles with a Tesla Tap but at whatever rate the OBC is.
I have charged my 2017 Zero SR (with Pwr Tank) at 10 KW using external chargers.
-Don- Reno, NV
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the battery is heavy, you smash your feet, you ding something, go ahead and one man it, and when it twists or turns and you bridge the output leads and it flashes well... should have gotten help.
aaron
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I have 32A AC breakerfor tesla mobile connector - and I often charge with full power (32A) for several hours, tesla even take a little more than 32A (usually 32,3 but sometimes even 33A) - and in 2-3years I have no problem with this
What voltage are you using?
I use a Tesla Wall Connector at each of my houses, 240 VAC @ 48-amps. My 2018 Tesla M3 has a 12 KW AC input charger. I charge it at ~11,520 watts. I also use this to charge my motorcycles with a Tesla Tap but at whatever rate the OBC is.
I have charged my 2017 Zero SR (with Pwr Tank) at 10 KW using external chargers.
-Don- Reno, NV
I am from Poland (EU) so in theory we have 230V
in practice we have 245-253V in sunny day, 210-225V on normal day
I have US spec car so I still can charge with 48A, if i Just have that kind of wallbox/evse - but over 32A on one phase while other phases are not loaded is illegal, anyway even if, at 32A I got 15-18V voltage sag on one phase so even at 32A sometimes it exceed tesla software and sometimes current drops to 24-26A
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I am from Poland (EU) so in theory we have 230V
in practice we have 245-253V in sunny day, 210-225V on normal day
I have US spec car so I still can charge with 48A, if i Just have that kind of wallbox/evse - but over 32A on one phase while other phases are not loaded is illegal, anyway even if, at 32A I got 15-18V voltage sag on one phase so even at 32A sometimes it exceed tesla software and sometimes current drops to 24-26A
Does the law require each phase to be loaded near equally, or how much can it vary by?
-Don- Reno, NV
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I am from Poland (EU) so in theory we have 230V
in practice we have 245-253V in sunny day, 210-225V on normal day
I have US spec car so I still can charge with 48A, if i Just have that kind of wallbox/evse - but over 32A on one phase while other phases are not loaded is illegal, anyway even if, at 32A I got 15-18V voltage sag on one phase so even at 32A sometimes it exceed tesla software and sometimes current drops to 24-26A
At least the bike's OBC does NOT use the 75-amp fuse. My OBC still charges the bike normally at 3.3 KW with the DCFC fuse blown on 240 VAC.
The DCFC fuse is in series with the HV DC pin in the connector which is not used for AC-input charging.
The bike would be useless now if the OBC used the DCFC fuse. I sure am glad that uses a separate path, at least in my 2020 SS9-.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Does the law require each phase to be loaded near equally, or how much can it vary by?
-Don- Reno, NV
difference can be max 30 or 32A, energy companies can see all data remotely - loading one phase more is breaking an agreement between you and energy company - they can termination of the contract with you
(I hope i use right words and you understand what I mean)
anyway i charged my tesla with 3-4kW max for 3 years and maybe 3-4 times I need faster rates
now I have extrenal DC charger so I can charge at 20kW and loads 6,7kW each phase - this is for future cars bcoz definanetly I will go with rivian r1t, also charge my energica faster at home
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I decided to do the work myself, to fix Energica's old design flaw (IMAO) up to the year of my 2020 SS9-, 13.4KWH batt, which IIRC, is even heavier than the 21.5 KWH packs because of all the cooling stuff Energica used to brag about which they decided was not necessary at all just a year later, and they could do a lighter and much larger KWH battery.
Anyway, Energica made some great improvements since those days, so I cannot complain, other than getting stuck with it since year 2019 for my 2020 model.
There is no hurry, and the bike is still ridable as well as AC input chargeable as is. But since I now have two other Energicas, I figure there is no hurry, but I kinda already started on it, with all the covers off.
See the filenames below for what is what, I am showing the path from the HV from the J-1772 receptacle into the battery and a few other things. I am showing the orange plug that is in series with it.
I am also showing my new crane that I purchased from ChinaTools (HFT) yesterday. It looks like it can do the job and it goes as high as possible in my garage.
I am going to see if I can buy the necessary cables and other parts, and my plan is to put at least a 100-amp fuse in the battery but a 75-amp easy to get to fuse externally, to protect the 100-amp. If I can find an even higher rate fuse that will fit in the battery, I will, as long as I have the external 75-amp fuse. Looks like there could be a spot for such on the right side of the motor that has enough room as well as a way to mount. Other possibilities as well.
No hurry on this project and I still have questions.
Can somebody here tell me where the fuse location is inside the 13.4KW battery and how to get to it? Or do I just start taking it apart and find it that way?
The top photo is the HV DC charge to the battery rear bottom. Only used for the DCFC. It is in series with the orange connector that I now have disconnected and goes to the two large HV pins on the J-connector.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Here are some more photos, such as a full view of the crane and a couple of more photos just because I had my camera, such as my 1971 BMW (purchased new in May of 1971) a few months after I got back from the jungles of Vietnam--where it was difficult to spend the military pay, the vet plate "V11B" to those who have been in the army will know it means "Vietnam-Infantry".
Yeah, I am that old! But the most meaningless measurement of age is time, IMAO.
And a photo of all my toys here at this house.
-Don- Reno, NV
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It has not been an issue for a long time but there was a period many years ago where some EVGO stations had a voltage spike at the start of the session. This resulted in a input current that exceeded that of the fuse causing it to be tripped.
I have good reasons to believe the spike is now at the very end of the EV-Go charge session.
All SEEMED ok at the EV-Go charger. Got a full charge until it shut off what appeared to be normally. However, I could not charge at the NEXT DCFC, which was EV-Range. At first, I assumed it was a problem at EV-Range because the last charge was fine at EV-Go (I thought!). But I got in contact with EV-Range via email. Their computer shows everything that happens with every charge. It showed my bike never got ANY charge at all, not even for a fraction of a second. Since it is not possible to blow a 90-amp fuse with no current, it sure looks like the problem was at the very end of the EV-Go charge, right when it shut off, perhaps with a big fat spike.
And David's story is very similar to mine, but it was two EV-Goes in a row, and he got no charge from the 2nd charger from the very start.
I just thought I should pass this info on, as I assume there is still an issue, but at the end of the charge, not the start, with at least some EV-Goes.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Then again, IF his equipment potentially caused hundreds or a thousand dollars worth of damage, fuse replacement plus time and maybe other stuff, he may be VERY reluctant to say, oh yah we did it. Him denying seeing anything whether it's there or not is very plausible.
oh no sir, we don't even see you on the planet, are you sure you own a bike??
Aaron
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I replaced the blown 90-amp fuse (I was expecting it to be 75-amps) in the battery pack with a 100-amp. I have the battery back on the bike. It was a tough job all because of the weight of the battery but can be done safely as a one-man job if being careful.
But now I have a weird problem. My 2020 SS9- is at 90% SOC. Over 300 VDC into the inverter, but bike now gives a code P1000 and tells me "Battery is depleted" and will not start because it "thinks" (incorrectly) that my well charged up to 90% SOC battery is near dead.
So where did I screw up at? Besides for the SOC%, where else is this voltage detected? Whatever it is, doesn't see my voltage as normal at >+300 VDC @90% SOC.
I notice one small white four-pin female cable connector on the VCU does not go anywhere. I am not sure if there is a connection for it that I cannot find or if it never did go anywhere.
Any guess of where I screwed up?
-Don- Reno, NV
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messing with it yourself instead of taking it to the Energica shop down the road, where they know what they are doing.
aaron
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There is nothing like the School of Hard Knocks to teach some lifelong lessons. Says someone who has learned a lot over many years of working on motorcycles in my garage and making more than my share of mistakes. (Why do I have an extra part left over after reassembling everything?) ;)
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There is nothing like the School of Hard Knocks to teach some lifelong lessons. Says someone who has learned a lot over many years of working on motorcycles in my garage and making more than my share of mistakes. (Why do I have an extra part left over after reassembling everything?) ;)
Yes, I have learned a few things about this bike from working on it, just as with my others. The hidden spot where a bolt goes is a common mistake.
One big mistake I keep on making is to forget to take many photos of the different areas of the bike before I touch anything. Especially connectors and bolts that I think could be difficult to notice later. And especially of loose connectors that go nowhere so I will know for later. Also, string tags for some things. I did none of that stuff on this bike and then after I started, I went on vacation for a couple of weeks, so forgot a few things when I got back to continue to work on it.
Next time I start such a project I will try harder to remember to get my camera out and save a bunch of pictures of all areas of the bike.
But for now, I really need to know how it "thinks" I have a "depleted battery" when it shows at 90% SOC at above 300 VDC into the inverter, just before the bike shuts down for having a "depleted battery". One thing I did do correctly was to home charge the battery to 90% SOC before I started to work on it just in case it takes months to fix it.
Also, now it will not charge by any method. Screen looks normal until I check status, which gives me the P1000 which means "battery under voltage" which is obviously not correct. Or when I try to turn it on when it says, "battery depleted, recharge before use". But also, will not charge. Sometimes I get an "undefined fault" message instead.
-Don- Reno, NV
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probably should take it to the energica dealer near you at this point, before you make things worse.
Im sure they'd also appreciate the business, to help them stay in business, to keep fixing things when the 'experts' break them.
id have them install the fuse properly too, and investigate why it's blowing and don't just automatically assume it's the chargers fault. Fuses blow for a reason, and you have molested that bike some. so.......better safe than sorry.
Aaron
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I have been working on my SS9- off and on, avoiding the very hot afternoons days and such.
I am glad my bike did NOT work after I put it back together! But I had to do this job twice and then some. And was the most difficult automotive job I have ever done, mainly because of the battery weight making it very difficult to work with. And also is difficult to take apart when it has fresh sealant on the covers.
The DCFC fuse is on the right side of the pack, so there is no reason to open the left side to replace the DCFC fuse.
I ran out of ideas to fix the thing and decided to look inside the battery LEFT side. And there was the problem, and I think this connector had to be loose from the factory because it clicks & locks back in and holds tight. I believe it would break if it was pulled out with force from the small cable, so I have good reasons to believe it was always in, but not to where it snaps in locked.
IMO, working on the battery caused it to fully fall out. I was somewhat rough with it at times (it's a big job!). But I certainly would rather have this happen in my garage than a thousand miles away from home.
Here is the photo of what I found on the pack's left side and the PC board it connects to.
I still need to glue the battery and bike back together, but I do expect it will now work as it should. It was the bottom white Molex connector that was out. I see I took the photo after I plugged it back in.
Edit: I see I plugged it back in before the photo. It was the bottom six pin connector that uses only three wires that was not connected. IOW, the white Molex connector plug just above the screw for the inverter cable guide.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Wow! Great detective work! Well done indeed.
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Wow! Great detective work! Well done indeed.
Bike is back together, rides fine, no errors. I am now starting on my DCFC 80-amp easy to get to fuse modification. This battery in and out job is one I do not want to do again after already doing it twice!
Inside the battery pack, it now has a hundred-amp DCFC fuse. The original was a 90-amp fuse that blew. The 80-amp will be in series and hopefully will blow first protecting the 100-amp in case of a large spike or whatever.
From now on, I decided I will DCFC all my Energicas at 55 amps. I am rarely in a hurry these days and I noticed battery on "yellow" not as often as when I used to charge at full. Next charge probably has a cooler battery. But not by much, as less current but longer time.
I chopped off the DCFC wires from the plug and see below for what I am now working on to wire in the extra lower current (80-amp) fuse.
Below is the plug from the bike side. No need to touch the DCFC connector on the battery side as below will plug into it.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Interesting.
The temperature increase is proportional to the waste heat energy.
The waste heat energy is waste heat power multiplied by the time.
The waste heat power is I^2*R.
If you're charging at twice the speed, it'll have 4 times for waste heat power but only for half as long.
Therefore I believe that at half the charging speed you'll also get half the overall temperature increase.
Basically the the temperature increase is inversely proportional to the charging speed, rather simple to remember.
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Interesting.
The temperature increase is proportional to the waste heat energy.
The waste heat energy is waste heat power multiplied by the time.
The waste heat power is I^2*R.
If you're charging at twice the speed, it'll have 4 times for waste heat power but only for half as long.
Therefore I believe that at half the charging speed you'll also get half the overall temperature increase.
Basically the the temperature increase is inversely proportional to the charging speed, rather simple to remember.
Yeah, there are several advantages for waiting a bit longer for a charge--especially when it comes to blowing a fuse that is located inside the battery pack. BTW, there are three fuses in there IIRC, also one for the output to the motor inverter, 300-amps, IIRC. I didn't try to figure out what the other is for--or even if it is really a fuse but looks like a very large one.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I completed my 80-amp easy-to-get-to fuse modification tofay.
If the 100-amp fuse in the battery ever blows again, it will be totally by-passed, and I will rely on external fuses, which makes a lot more sense than a DCFC fuse inside the battery pack.
Here are some photos of what I did.
The charge cables have a bunch of sealant on them because I opened the left side of the pack and handled things just after I sealed the right side.
The added fuse is on the left side of the bike. I deliberately routed the DCFC cable out of the battery different from the stock way so I could do this job. The DCFC connector is on the right side of the bike, the opposite side from my added DCFC fuse. The added fuse is using the saddlebag bracket to mount on the left side, away from the rear shock which is on the right side/
All completed, tested to the connector, but not yet on a DCFCer. I think I will go back to the same EV-GO that blew my fuse for a real test.
David (oobflyer here) and I blew our DCFC fuse on an EV-GO while using AutoCharge Plus. I doubt if Autocharge Plus had anything to do with it, but EV-Go surely did. Different days and different locations. David's Ribelle also had a 90-amp fuse now replaced with a 100-amp fuse.
Here are some photos of my modification that I just now completed. Not yet tested on a DCFC but I am sure all will be fine.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Tonight, I decided to get my first DCFC on my repaired 2020 SS9- First DCFC since May!
Nice warm night here. I took the freeway at a rather high speed to Carson City and went to the new Hyperfuel DCFCs, that just recently went in service so I could check in on Plugshare.
I set the current to 55 amps and I really do not even notice the difference in charge times on this 13.4 KWH battery compared to when I was charging it at max. All worked perfectly, repair is now all completed as well as all tested.
I will be riding this bike a lot for a while.
Doesn't this look nice?
-Don- Reno, NV
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Very nice work Don - I’m impressed. Now can you do it again… this time with a step-by-step slow-motion instructional video? :)
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Very nice work Don - I’m impressed. Now can you do it again… this time with a step-by-step slow-motion instructional video? :)
Well, as far as taking the battery out again (which is the easy part compared to putting it back in) that is what I am trying to avoid.
The exact way I did mine cannot be done without lifting the bike above the battery with all the junk on top of it disconnected. That is because the DCFC cable is strapped with a couple of tie wraps near the battery central plate where it is not possible to get to when the battery is still mounted in the bike. I planned ahead before I put the battery back in the bike.
But the "+" bikes could be different and they have no battery central plate. The central plate is for the cooling of the batteries which was removed in the "+" bikes so they could add more cells and make a lighter bike at the same time. The "+" bikes even with the higher KWH capacity is lighter than the battery for my 13.4 KWH battery pack. I do not know how they run the DCFC cable on your bike, but it could be different than my SS9.
It's not a big deal, but I need to change the external fuse and holder one of these days. I just now found out that fuse voltage rating, 32 volts max. Not an issue until it blows and I do not expect it to. The voltage rating of a fuse is just for when it blows, it then can arch across with a higher voltage than its voltage rating. It will only take five minutes to change the fuse and fuse holder after I get the correct parts.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Nicely done, Don...impressed by the deliberate effort to complete the task in DIY form...certainly not a casual undertaking.
Seems like you've established a special bond to this bike over many in your collection...keep her going dude...thanks for sharing your maintenance experience.
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Nicely done, Don...impressed by the deliberate effort to complete the task in DIY form...certainly not a casual undertaking.
Seems like you've established a special bond to this bike over many in your collection...keep her going dude...thanks for sharing your maintenance experience.
Yeah, I find its shorter range to not be much of an issue as there are enough DCFCs for me to get almost anywhere these days and I like to take a break about once per hour of riding anyway. I get to places just as fast because the charge times are a lot shorter.
And I like the very small windscreen on these hot days we have been having lately. And the battery cools better than on the "+" bikes and the charge doesn't slow as much when hot, even though the battery indicator is in the yellow just as often as the "+" bikes. It would be better if there were a readout for the battery temperature in degrees.
I rode the SS9- here to Auburn from Reno the other day, my first long ride on it since the repair. Required one DCFC to get here just a little more than halfway at Cisco Grove, CA (https://www.plugshare.com/location/64737) than I took the bike on the more scenic longer way on Hwy 20 to get here. Around 110 miles/177 km. Bike ran perfectly and was an enjoyable ride, even though it was a hot day when I got to the lower elevations around here.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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if you go into your engineering screen there should be a battery temp readout for you to get an idea.
Aaron
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I have been only riding my SS9- lately as it is my favorite bike in hot weather such as here where it peaks a little over 100°F/ 38°C every afternoon lately.
A fuse is normally rated for 77°F /25°C for their current values. So I looked at my battery temp in the Eng. Menu "33/32" (90°) when I left home which is cooler than the ambient air temperature. The bike's screen said it was 100°F which was accurate at the time. I assume the inside of the battery was cooler from the morning temps in my garage.
I have no idea what the first and 2nd numbers mean for the batt temp., but I assume they are both in degrees C.
I wanted to be sure that the cooler 80-amp fuse outside the bike is more likely to blow than the warmer 100-amp inside the battery pack. After it was charged to 95% SOC the battery temp was "38/36". Even the "38" is about the same temp as the ambient air temp.
I assume all is okay as I now keep my DCFC limited to 55 amps. And even after my DCFC today in the heat (https://www.plugshare.com/location/625945), the battery temp indicator was still green!
I am now totally done working on this bike. I changed the fuse to the same type that is in the battery pack but for 80 amps instead of 100 Amps as now in the battery pack.
It seems that Eaton / Bussmann makes no fuse holder for these types of fuses which are rated at 700VAC/500VDC. They are normally just bolted in such as in the Energica battery packs.
However, I discovered I could modify this fuse holder (https://www.amazon.com/JIAKUPA-Operating-Inverters-Stereos-Systems/dp/B0DWFW8QS5?pd_rd_w=gMroI&content-id=amzn1.sym.4af096b2-fb5d-43d2-a23c-ac48118349a2&pf_rd_p=4af096b2-fb5d-43d2-a23c-ac48118349a2&pf_rd_r=Z30N9NN584MDBHXXYSNP&pd_rd_wg=EZJjb&pd_rd_r=a7096be3-3683-43b4-b542-1547a8e35ef1&pd_rd_i=B0DWFW8QS5&ref_=pd_basp_d_rpt_ba_s_1_cp_t&th=1)by drilling the holes out a little larger so the Eaton/Bussman fuse will fit with the new bolts spaced just a little farther out.
And here is what it now looks like on my 2020 SS9-, which will be a lot easier to replace than the one in the battery pack.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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You are correct, temperatures are in degree Celsius. First number is the maximum temp the bike has seen (I assume since switched on), the second number is the actual temp.
This outside mounted fuse looks somewhat StarTrekky to me. You could add lighting so it glows in the dark. Tell anyone who is asking, it's the flux compensator 2.0 ;D
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You are correct, temperatures are in degree Celsius. First number is the maximum temp the bike has seen (I assume since switched on), the second number is the actual temp.
This outside mounted fuse looks somewhat StarTrekky to me. You could add lighting so it glows in the dark. Tell anyone who is asking, it's the flux compensator 2.0 ;D
Thanks for the info on the numbers.
Yeah, the added fuse certainly does not look stock, it is clearly an add-on, but I cannot see it when I am riding, so I really do not care much about that. What I do care about is not needing to ever take the battery out and then getting inside the battery pack.
I figure I have triple protection now with the 100-amp fuse in the battery (It was 90-amp fuse that blew) added 80-amp fuse in series as well as now only charging at 55 amps max. I now will not hesitate to go back to the same EV-Go that blew my fuse in Garnerville, NV and use the Autocharge+ again on an extra hot day.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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> David (oobflyer here) and I blew our DCFC fuse on an EV-GO while using AutoCharge Plus. I doubt if Autocharge Plus had anything to do with it, but EV-Go surely did. Different days and different locations. David's Ribelle also had a 90-amp fuse now replaced with a 100-amp fuse.
Mine got blown by the EVgo station in King City a year or two back. Thanks for posting the details! Of course people should be aware of that there is high voltage under that bellypan, ist night für gefingerpoken bei die dumkopften sichtseeren as the old sign says beware dem spitzensparken.
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So it appears this thing blowing fuses is fairly common here? what is the problem, has the company officially said they are aware of this, what if anything has been done about it? i mean if plugging into someone's stuff causes me a 2k repair bill, that's bad, and needs to be addressed.
Aaron
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Mine got blown by the EVgo station in King City a year or two back. Thanks for posting the details! Of course people should be aware of that there is high voltage under that bellypan, ist night für gefingerpoken bei die dumkopften sichtseeren as the old sign says beware dem spitzensparken.
When did you first notice something was wrong? Did your fuse blow at the very end of the charge, or when?
What year and type of bike? What type of fuse inside blew? Was it a 90-amp or 100-amp. etc.
And was it extra hot outside that day? Was your charge current at max when it happened?
(While charging, hit the mode to the left to reduce the charge current, and the bike will remember it for the next DCFC.)
How was the bike repaired? Did you do the work yourself?
There is HV right above the belly pan in the "+" bikes. Bottom plate must come straight down to remove or else you have a bomb as the very high current capacity 300 VDC+ can short to the negative. And best to use all insulated tools. I assume removing the stock screws / bolts, whatever, and then putting extra-long screws in the pan a few threads, will be the safe way to bring the belly pan straight down.
One nice thing about the "-" bikes is that the HV is harder to get to, no HV around the DCFC fuse as long as the contactor is open, which should be and is easy to test for--just make sure there is no voltage into the inverter. Keep key out, not charging and there shouldn't be any problem.
But with the plus bikes, a lot easier to get to the DCFC fuse but can be extremely dangerous if one doesn't know what they are doing.
-Don- Reno, NV