ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: Motoproponent on May 13, 2025, 10:38:34 PM
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So with the home office being sold for parts and Energica USA not really in the financial position to repair/replace stuff for free anymore?
Anyone gonna start tinkering?
If so what would be your wishlist?
A center stand?
6KW AC Charging?
Bluetooth diagnostic?
Will we ever get to the point that the Zero guys did with racks of diginow third party chargers and shit?
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You don't need to void your warranty for faster charging. Just need a small CCS charger. Wouldn't be too hard to build a 12kW unit from on old Tesla charger module. (of course this requires a 60A 240V single-phase or 20A 3-phase circuit!)
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Most Energicas are already out of warranty anyway, it's not a long one.
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remember the charger has to talk to the bike, even on ac, so building a new one, or even piggy backing a second one on may not be that easy, even as a master / slave setup it may be tricky, so might just go with a cheap DC fast charge. you would need to get a 20 kw rated one though to get 12 kw true into the bike, 40A x 330 ish volts. the rating shown on chargers is not what they put out all the time but max potential. 500 volt 20 amp for 10 kw. or 1000 v 10 amp if you got a hipot ccs1 (yes they make them to a kilovolt now since chevy and a few others came out with their ultium platform?? that runs around 800 volts.)
Aaron
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you are right but its depend of manufacturer
most of them rating power with 400VDC but some at 300V
so 20kW charger can have 50 or 75A module
also energica has 80S pack so this 336V is on 100% in theory, in real world max is about 331-332V, and on deep 0% is about 252V
ANYWAY - 20kW dc charger (50A) is a basic one, 10-15kW cost 100-200$ less so not worth to buy it for home usage, MAX DC amps are adjustable in charger
but if we talk about 6kW OBC, this can be done, but software part is the hardest
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The CCS1 standard was originally 500 volts if i am not mistaken, then raised to 1000 volts when they started seeing packs that were above 500. A 500 volt charger won't help an 800 volt bus. When I had my custom charger built they asked me if i wanted 500 volt or 1kv. I choose 500 as i was only thinking about the bike at the time. NOW that i am looking at a Tesla cyber truck, im hoping it's under 500 volt so my charger still works, although i think a jumper will fix my charger as it just halves the amps by running the board pairs in series .vs. parallel per unit output.
Aaron
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I can make a CAN bridge from the existing charger to a 12kW Tesla one, I've done this before on other platforms. (If there is a reasonable demand, it's still some amount of work)
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but if energica's software is programmed to only go up to 15a on AC that's all you are going to get. no matter how big the charger is, it tells it how much to do.
Aaron
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but if energica's software is programmed to only go up to 15a on AC that's all you are going to get. no matter how big the charger is, it tells it how much to do.
Aaron
Yep...I have a 32amp AC charger at home and the bike limits it to 15amps.
Smithy.
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but if energica's software is programmed to only go up to 15a on AC that's all you are going to get. no matter how big the charger is, it tells it how much to do.
Aaron
Yep...I have a 32amp AC charger at home and the bike limits it to 15amps.
Smithy.
i don't want to be splitting hairs with you, since i understand what you meant, but technically, that little box you plug into the wall and your bike is really just a sort of fancy switch, it puts AC to the bike and may limit how many amps. the actual charger is part of the bike and under the seat. It is where the AC is converted to DC and sent to the battery. your switch is a 32 amp switch, so is mine, but the charger which is on the bike, is 15 amp
aaron
aaron
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I've solved this before. The Tesla CHG has it's own J1772 interface, so all you need to do is watch the CCL from the BMS and respect that. You could also just "pretend" to be a CCS and go in that way. Plenty of options.
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So with the home office being sold for parts and Energica USA not really in the financial position to repair/replace stuff for free anymore?
Anyone gonna start tinkering?
If so what would be your wishlist?
A center stand?
6KW AC Charging?
Bluetooth diagnostic?
Will we ever get to the point that the Zero guys did with racks of diginow third party chargers and shit?
My wishlist?
Liquid Cooled Battery with active cooling (with a HV AC compressor and heat exchangers)...
That it's possible to extract as much thermal heat between two DC charges, for prolonged 24 kW max charge power, and repeatedly having the possibility to charge with 24 kW over a day ...! Also a quieter gear train would be nice ... xD
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Yep...I have a 32amp AC charger at home and the bike limits it to 15amps.
Smithy.
bike is limited but if someone can reverse engineer software its easy to increase to even 48A
but then, you have to change all the wiring and ofcoruse charger it self
a lot easier to to will be just use external ccs or plug it to ccs port underneath, but with more quanity of dc station, faster ac is not that neceseary
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So with the home office being sold for parts and Energica USA not really in the financial position to repair/replace stuff for free anymore?
Anyone gonna start tinkering?
If so what would be your wishlist?
A center stand?
6KW AC Charging?
Bluetooth diagnostic?
Will we ever get to the point that the Zero guys did with racks of diginow third party chargers and shit?
My wishlist?
Liquid Cooled Battery with active cooling (with a HV AC compressor and heat exchangers)...
That it's possible to extract as much thermal heat between two DC charges, for prolonged 24 kW max charge power, and repeatedly having the possibility to charge with 24 kW over a day ...! Also a quieter gear train would be nice ... xD
I was riding/cruising on ss9+ in Tatra's in Slovakia 2 years ago with friend on ICE bike
conditions are perfect - sunny + ambient temps 18-22*C, my battery bms was faulty back then so I have to charge between 25-75% only but still on 50% of battery I still can do about 100-120km - and I always get 22-24kW charging speed at start
my friend can;t even finish his meal between charges
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Yep...I have a 32amp AC charger at home and the bike limits it to 15amps.
Smithy.
You have a 32A EVSE at home. All it does is forward AC power to the on-board charger that actually does the power conversion. That's the bottleneck for AC charging.
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could it be possible to have the ac charger out of the like like with a zero ? that would remove a bit of weight and not change much as I charge with ac in my garage only, and with dc elsewhere.
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could it be possible to have the ac charger out of the like like with a zero ? that would remove a bit of weight and not change much as I charge with ac in my garage only, and with dc elsewhere.
track energicas doesnt have AC charger bcoz weight savings, I dont know exactly but I think charger weight about 8kg
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A track energica does have an ac charger. you still need the comms cables to talk, which is part of the overall assembly. The only difference really between a J plug and CCS is the two bigger DC lugs to carry DC. otherwise it's the same setup.
aaron
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So with the home office being sold for parts and Energica USA not really in the financial position to repair/replace stuff for free anymore?
Anyone gonna start tinkering?
If so what would be your wishlist?
A center stand?
6KW AC Charging?
Bluetooth diagnostic?
Will we ever get to the point that the Zero guys did with racks of diginow third party chargers and shit?
My wishlist?
Liquid Cooled Battery with active cooling (with a HV AC compressor and heat exchangers)...
That it's possible to extract as much thermal heat between two DC charges, for prolonged 24 kW max charge power, and repeatedly having the possibility to charge with 24 kW over a day ...! Also a quieter gear train would be nice ... xD
I was riding/cruising on ss9+ in Tatra's in Slovakia 2 years ago with friend on ICE bike
conditions are perfect - sunny + ambient temps 18-22*C, my battery bms was faulty back then so I have to charge between 25-75% only but still on 50% of battery I still can do about 100-120km - and I always get 22-24kW charging speed at start
my friend can;t even finish his meal between charges
Yes, but then ride 120 km and try again. You'll end with 18 kW midway through the 2nd DC charge and at around 12-14 kW when nearing 80% SoC, and it isn't able to dissipate much heat in between charging. The Rapidgate does affect the 21,5s more than the 13,4s with the cooling channel. Overall the smaller batteries thermal management is way better than that of the bigger ones.
I would love to have like an active AC unit, that cools down the cells to like 20°C while riding, and then when charging the battery heats up again (higher Temperatures are generally better for charging, but the cycle life will be affected at elevated temperatures when that high temps are hold for longer timeframes, but also higher temperatures mean less internal resistance and higher heat dissipation). So let the battery heat up during DC charging, then cool it down actively during riding, to be ready for the next fast DC charge session.
I'm currently working on something, but I'm only able to continue when summer is over (riding is more important now xD)...
There will be separate posts here about BOTH my wishes when I'm finished 😉
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No, the AC charger is a separate module. On most bikes it's under the seat. You can most definitely unplug this and remove it and the bike will still run. It would be pretty trivial to permanently leave it at home, but I guess they figured as heavy as these bikes already are, whats a few more kilos worth of on-board charger?
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The Zero "flat 6" AC Charger weighs about 8 kg, according to the internet.
Would be cool to be able to swap them out.
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No, the AC charger is a separate module. On most bikes it's under the seat. You can most definitely unplug this and remove it and the bike will still run. It would be pretty trivial to permanently leave it at home, but I guess they figured as heavy as these bikes already are, whats a few more kilos worth of on-board charger?
I don't think it can be called CCS without the AC charger. The first "C" is the problem, stands for "combined".
-Don- Reno, NV
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I don't think it can be called CCS without the AC charger. The first "C" is the problem, stands for "combined".
-Don- Reno, NV
Yes, that's hat it "stands" for, but it's definitely possible to remove the onboard charger (AC to DC power supply) and still have CCS work for DC fast charging. The onboard charger is not used for CCS. (Separate pins on the CCS inlet even!)
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Has anyone removed the AC charger - and had the bike continue to function without errors?
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you wouldn't have to remove it, just unplug it really. as long as the plug is intact it should work i think. if i am not mistaken it should be something like this the bike tells the switch how many amps to send, it sends, the charger turns that ac into dc and puts in battery.
for a dc charge, the bike tells the charger how many amps to send, charger sends directly to battery.
the issue i see is, even if you put a 6 kw charger in there. lets call it 25 amps.... the energica's software is only going to go up to 15 amp max so will never tell the bigger charger TO send the 6 kw. it will send 15a tops. the only work around i see is, if you had a charger at 480 volt. since the ac hits the charger only you should be good ... EXCEPT that the energica knows the voltage you are sending to know whether it is 1.6 or 3.2 kw you are charging at, and it's sensor may not like seeing 480v even though the charger don't mind.
Aaron
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Has anyone removed the AC charger - and had the bike continue to function without errors?
Yes, on my 2023 SS9 the bike functions normally with it unplugged.
I haven't attempted to put more amps in than the OBC normally does, but I will try it sometime soon.
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Yes, on my 2023 SS9 the bike functions normally with it unplugged.
On my 2020 SS9-, when the OBC fan opened, it gave me an error message.
I haven't attempted to put more amps in than the OBC normally does, but I will try it sometime soon.
I am curious about how you're going to do that.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Yes, on my 2023 SS9 the bike functions normally with it unplugged.
On my 2020 SS9-, when the OBC fan opened, it gave me an error message.
I haven't attempted to put more amps in than the OBC normally does, but I will try it sometime soon.
I am curious about how you're going to do that.
-Don- Reno, NV
depend how sophisticated energica software safaety is - if you put second charger in parallel on HV lines from original charger, then MAYBE this will charge faster - also it depends of wiring and contactors/fuses sizes etc, but for test +1-2A to max charging will no harm it and will be enough to just TEST IT - if this will work then you can replace wires/fuses in battery and probably even make 9-10kW ac