ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: Stonewolf on November 15, 2024, 12:13:14 AM
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Brilliant time for this to happen ...
So I got a new job and now I can finally have my service done so I go out to the garage to get the tyre sizes, turn the bike on to move it and ... nothing. No screen, no relay clicks, no lights, nothing. The little blinky immobiliser light isn't even on.
Happened so far: Parked it at the end of September, charged to 80%, unplugged, LPR mode on.
Action taken: Phoned EEMC, took off side panel and inspected main fuse which looks fine, tried plugging it in with the ignition on and off, turning on/off a few times, removed main fuse for a short while and then reinserted.
Anyone have this problem before? I'm really hoping it's not serious.
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is it a keyless or a keyed?
if keyless try holding the button down for like 30 to 45 seconds.
Aaron
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Keyed, don't trust keyless
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Brilliant time for this to happen ...
So I got a new job and now I can finally have my service done so I go out to the garage to get the tyre sizes, turn the bike on to move it and ... nothing. No screen, no relay clicks, no lights, nothing. The little blinky immobiliser light isn't even on.
Happened so far: Parked it at the end of September, charged to 80%, unplugged, LPR mode on.
Action taken: Phoned EEMC, took off side panel and inspected main fuse which looks fine, tried plugging it in with the ignition on and off, turning on/off a few times, removed main fuse for a short while and then reinserted.
Anyone have this problem before? I'm really hoping it's not serious.
It's an easy fix!
Check the hidden 0.315 amp fuse, not shown in the manuals. It is an inline fuse inside the tank area. Bike turns into a brick when it opens, will not charge, will not run will not do anything as that fuse keys the bike. I have no idea why it is not shown, but it is in there.
See here. (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=12287.0)
-Don- Why, AZ (boondocked in the desert, RV trip with Zero DS)
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Is this the round one beside the regular fuse box or is it hidden somewhere else?
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Is this the round one beside the regular fuse box or is it hidden somewhere else?
In your bike, that could be it, so open the fuse holder and see if you have a blown 0.315 amp fuse in there. And test it if it looks good. Mine looked good to the eye but was open.
However, that fuse holder looks quite large for a 0.315 amp fuse. IIRC, the wires on mine were thin--not near the main fuse block, hidden below cables on the rear of the inverter, but that was on my SS9-. Your Ribelle could be a bit different, but I assume they still use the same fuse.
-Don- Why, AZ
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The fuse inside is a lot smaller than the holder, the contacts look clean and the wire itself looks fine as well as its connections to the inside of the end caps. I'll try it with a multimeter tomorrow. I did look down near the motor where yours seemed to be but I couldn't see anything that looked like a fuse holder.
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Brilliant time for this to happen ...
Parked it at the end of September, charged to 80%, unplugged, LPR mode on.
I'm really hoping it's not serious.
I don't want to dash your hopes but the programmed logic by having LPR mode On is that the bike wakes up at periodic intervals to juice up if necessary and given it wasn't plugged in but mode was active you may have sapped the battery wondering how many wake-up cycles the bike has been subjected to and yup that includes BMS activation which is dormant until bike wakes up...w/ LPR mode Off the bike will just sleep maintaining a keep alive voltage present at micro-amp level versus repeated surge of 10amps minimum as a comparative guess. Fuses blow for a reason and typically not when bike is stationary...let us know the outcome...genuinely hoping I'm wrong.
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Fuses blow for a reason and typically not when bike is stationary...let us know the outcome...genuinely hoping I'm wrong.
My 2020 SS9- "blew" the 0.315 amp fuse when the bike was off and stationary.
When fuses are as small as 0.315 amps, even a large temperature change can make them break and I think that is what happened to mine. So can age, factory defects and other things cause fuse problems. A "blown" fuse is not always an indication of a short or even excessive current. But can often tell by looking at the fuse what caused it to blow. The size of the break in the fuse and stuff like that, in many larger fuses but we can't see much with a 0.315 amp fuse. My open 315 ma fuse looked fine by eye. I was surprised as well as happy to find it to test as being open on an ohmmeter.
-Don- Why, AZ
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Is this the round one beside the regular fuse box or is it hidden somewhere else?
For the uninvolved reader it does not look like this fuse and the one Don is talking about are the same.
Looking at the pics in Don's post from November 22nd in 2022, he shows a fuse inside a clear fuse holder somewhere more in the vicinity of the thick orange cables entering the inverter.
Maybe it's worthwile to check again.
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Yeah the main reason I asked is there doesn't appear to be anything like a fuse holder down where Don's was and to get into that area properly I'd need to take more panels off. EEMC haven't told me that's the wrong one so I'll proceed as if it's correct. The fuse has continuity so the next step they've recommended is to check if there's voltage between it and the controller.
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There's no voltage from either contact in the inline fuse carrier to the inverter case (there should be 9V to ground on one of them) so it's looking like a DC-DC issue.
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There's no voltage from either contact in the inline fuse carrier to the inverter case (there should be 9V to ground on one of them) so it's looking like a DC-DC issue.
I agree with the others, that is probably not the same fuse. The correct fuse can be difficult to locate. And in my SS9- service manual, it is NOT shown.
The fuse you found, what was its rating?
IAC, you do NOT have a DC2DCC issue. That would not stop the bike from doing anything at all. The bike will also not charge, right? That has nothing to do with the DC2DCC. You're looking for the low voltage to turn the bike on. If the bike will not turn on, nothing at all works as the bike will not key on and the bike will not charge or do anything at all. And all other voltages will not be there at all.
I assume your Ribelle also has the 315 MA fuse. It is a small fuse in size also, half the size of most others. And difficult to notice--at least in my SS9-.
-Don- Why, AZ
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There's no voltage from either contact in the inline fuse carrier to the inverter case (there should be 9V to ground on one of them) so it's looking like a DC-DC issue.
The primary DC/DC converter for 12V system that operates lighting and traction controller functions is inhibited when bike is off.
I would have thought the (~9V) keep-alive was derived thru passive means versus a true DC/DC converter which seems less energy efficient for the given task.
I bet there's an undocumented safety cut-off mechanism at play that effects the keep alive voltage and prevents battery pack from a full self discharge...equally, I bet Energica has procedures to recover from this w/o cracking open the battery pack...e.g. external excitation to wake up VCU to allow contactor activation to charge port.
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I actually talked to them about external power, apparently it's something you can do but they (the UK distributors) had to rig up their own adaptor to do it. Their opinion was that it'd get the 12V system running but other than being able to read the SoC (which they're pretty sure isn't depleted) it wouldn't solve the problem.
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If this was my bike, I would plug bike charger into wall outlet assuming the LPR mode is still recognized when bike wakes up.
To wake up bike applying 9V to the VCU side of the fused circuit, placing power supply 0V to AC charger gnd, do not feed the battery pack side...use a bench power supply w/ current limit set to 100mA or try it w/ a fresh 9V battery or maybe two in parallel which is self limiting to ~200mA below the 315mA fuse size.
If there's enough residual charge in the battery pack, the DC/DC converter should fire-up which means LPR is recognized if it glitches and shuts down quickly then an additional isolated 12V supply is needed because pack is way depleted and for that you will need a connector adapter to isolate 12V - again, I would not backfeed into battery pack and mind proper circuit polarity with respect to AC charger gnd and you'll do fine to not harm anything further...we can source parts to make adapter your bike is newer than mine but the following should carry over in terms of identifying the pack connector and the keep alive fuse...
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-xn62hfF/0/NjcJn4mfnfnf7cgVWp8BRMbP6KxfcVj95CPsd5MJ4/XL/i-xn62hfF-XL.jpg)
There's only (2) circular connectors on the older bike, one for battery pack interface and one for charger interface.
For comparison, looks like Energica went to rectangular connectors for the newer Eva series, the following is preliminary...
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-JNXZTzf/0/MsmmQ5p4XsN7qbhZ75fdLWPP8QdTzVnDLVMfMLxm8/XL/i-JNXZTzf-XL.jpg)
Sanity check w/ dealer first to be certain and HTF does one activate the friggen spell checker in our replies?
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be careful checking the small fuse. Some of the cheaper multi meters, the current they use to do their job, can be enough to blow the fuse when you try to check it. Also don't expect a short either, again smaller fuses can sometimes read a few ohms across them.
Aaron
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The lack of 9V power at the fuse holder has 3 possible causes, with #3 being the most likely.
1. The bikes battery is totally drained and no longer able to power the DC/DC unit. Based on the fact the bike was at 80% SOC in September this is unlikely.
2. The wire that carries 9V power from the battery to the fuse holder is damaged. Although I have only seen this once it is worth checking, disconnect the 16pin connector going onto the left side of the battery (under the tank cover). Locate pin 8 on the harness side of the plug and test for continuity to the fuse holder.
3. The PSU (DC/DC) that provides the constant 9V and 12V once the bike is switched on has failed. Replacement of that component will return the bike to normal function.
It is possible to provide the bike with external power however the only reason for this is to allow a dealer to communicate with the bike and retrieve the logs.
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The lack of 9V power at the fuse holder has 3 possible causes, with #3 being the most likely.
1. The bikes battery is totally drained and no longer able to power the DC/DC unit. Based on the fact the bike was at 80% SOC in September this is unlikely.
2. The wire that carries 9V power from the battery to the fuse holder is damaged. Although I have only seen this once it is worth checking, disconnect the 16pin connector going onto the left side of the battery (under the tank cover). Locate pin 8 on the harness side of the plug and test for continuity to the fuse holder.
3. The PSU (DC/DC) that provides the constant 9V and 12V once the bike is switched on has failed. Replacement of that component will return the bike to normal function.
It is possible to provide the bike with external power however the only reason for this is to allow a dealer to communicate with the bike and retrieve the logs.
Perfect!
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The lack of 9V power at the fuse holder has 3 possible causes, with #3 being the most likely.
1. The bikes battery is totally drained and no longer able to power the DC/DC unit. Based on the fact the bike was at 80% SOC in September this is unlikely.
2. The wire that carries 9V power from the battery to the fuse holder is damaged. Although I have only seen this once it is worth checking, disconnect the 16pin connector going onto the left side of the battery (under the tank cover). Locate pin 8 on the harness side of the plug and test for continuity to the fuse holder.
3. The PSU (DC/DC) that provides the constant 9V and 12V once the bike is switched on has failed. Replacement of that component will return the bike to normal function.
It is possible to provide the bike with external power however the only reason for this is to allow a dealer to communicate with the bike and retrieve the logs.
Thanks! I'm currently thinking that what I'll do is ship it to EEMC for them to do any diagnosis they think is still worth trying and have a look at the DC/DC unit. They said it could be one of two part variations one of which is easy to change and the other hard (difference in connection methods) but there's no way of knowing until they open the front panel of the battery box.
Whether it's possible to even get the part though ...
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The lack of 9V power at the fuse holder has 3 possible causes, with #3 being the most likely.
1. The bikes battery is totally drained and no longer able to power the DC/DC unit. Based on the fact the bike was at 80% SOC in September this is unlikely.
On the basis of activating LPR but leaving the AC disconnected, does the VCU make any attempt to wake up and initiate charge?
Suppose this can easily be tested....just trying to avert errors and not risk the same outcome.
Thank you, Demoni....it's frustrating trying to understand what makes our bikes tick...the DC/DC function is not in operation even if 9V is sourced from the DC/DC converter assy when the bike is parked w/ ignition turned off, is this correct understanding?
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The bike doesn't respond to being plugged in in any way.
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be careful checking the small fuse. Some of the cheaper multi meters, the current they use to do their job, can be enough to blow the fuse when you try to check it. …….
Aaron
I don’t know if that’s true but here’s different & certainly non destructive way to test a fuse.
https://youtu.be/2EJU_UQFhmw?si=eb-ABVImyNuQeVCv
A bit of spit on the keypad/number helps.
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I don’t know if that’s true but here’s different & certainly non destructive way to test a fuse.
If the current of a cheap VOM is higher than the fuse, simply do NOT use the times one ohm scale. The VOM current is much less on the times ten and higher ohms scales than on the times one scale.
-Don- OPCNM, AZ
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I dropped the bike in to EEMC today and they said:
1) They've sent another PSU off to a shop as a pilot to see if it can be repaired, once they get that back they may be able to have mine fixed
2) This is looking like a common issue for EMCE powered Ego-platform bikes (mine is 3y & 25k miles (~45k km))
3) The fuse I checked is correct, it's located differently between Ribelle and SS9
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I don’t know if that’s true but here’s different & certainly non destructive way to test a fuse.
https://youtu.be/2EJU_UQFhmw?si=eb-ABVImyNuQeVCv (https://youtu.be/2EJU_UQFhmw?si=eb-ABVImyNuQeVCv)
It could show a hairline cracked fuse as being good, but most of the time that trick will work. But in those cases, you can tell by eye anyway. It is the hairline cracked fuses that are often not obvious.
They can sometimes even be tricky on an ohmeter because a temperature change can make them open and close. This is very rare, but I have seen it happen.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Had a chat with EEMC today to see if they could give me an update. They'd sent another customer's PSU (actually I got the impression it was just a control board from the PSU) off for repair at a third party shop and if it worked they'd be doing the same for mine. The repaired PSU for the other customer wasn't right so it's gone back for remediation but they're still hopeful it'll work out.
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Has any Energica shop looked at it at all? Hopefully something easy comes back.
You mentioned something about this being a common problem with the EGO line? Are there other examples?
If this is a known issue, surprised we haven't heard more about it.
Aaron
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Yeah, EEMC are the UK distributors, they're working to find alternative repair paths for any problems their customers are having.
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I think I put some updates in another thread somewhere but the third party repair was eventually successful and EEMC sent all their PSUs for same back in early May. They're now on the way back to the UK so maybe my bike will be back on the road again.
It's been 10 months and with it being my only ride I've been going a bit loopy looking out at the beautiful riding weather.
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i feel for you stonewolf. i just got told they are totalling my experia.
it's totally rideable but they can't find parts.... and they won't insure it anymore even IF i 'fix it up' and get a salvage title to it and re certified.
well fuck me in the billy goat ass. so now i cant legally ride it on the road until i find someone to insure it after jumping through all those bullshit hoops... it never ends.
hopefully i can get state farm or someone to at least insure it for liability against what damage others claim and not so much the bike.
OR, maybe they announce soon they got a buyer and are back in business and parts will be available again in a few months.... sigh...
aaron
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That fucking sucks man.
I'm cleaned out financially after last year and had to take a 50% pay cut just to still be in work so I couldn't really spring for a second bike but I'm hoping things pick up as I want something to keep the miles off my Ribelle now that it's a precious piece of motorcycling history.
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Well, the fat lady has not sung yet.
Energica is STILL mired up in the proceedings. They have not officially been declared dead.
sometimes this stuff takes time. last we heard, there was a buyer interested right?
remember, even IF they were bought up, and there is a new owner and all that happy funbag horseshit, they ALL STILL are under an NDA in accordance with the original proceedings. This is actually a normal thing. So even IF they had a buyer right now who did buy them out and all the stuff we pray about, they STILL CANT TALK ABOUT IT, because of that NDA, and that would apply to ANY potential suitors as well as the sellers.
Let's not write them off until the paperwork has a final stamp from a judge saying, it's done, you are gone, and demands a dissolution.
Remember they ARE still open for business in San Fran, and i would highly recommend anyone who needs work done, IF it is feasable, take it there, because that is operating money to keep them going until the crap DOES finally settle out.
If they truly were gone for good, the judge would have ordered a cease and desist for their san fran facility, as a measure to preserve as much of what value is left of the company for the creditors they have for the final sell off. (and of course to NOT be racking up even more unpaid debt!) The fact that - THAT has not happened is actually a very good sign for those who are familiar with these type of ...situations.
Keep the faith young man and even the children. This old fart has a feeling that something is still in the works, it has to be, otherwise they'd have shut the doors by now.
Energica USA - Avoids tariffs.
Aaron
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Had a chat with EEMC today to see if they could give me an update. They'd sent another customer's PSU (actually I got the impression it was just a control board from the PSU) off for repair at a third party shop and if it worked they'd be doing the same for mine. The repaired PSU for the other customer wasn't right so it's gone back for remediation but they're still hopeful it'll work out.
Hi. I did not see this thread. Sorry.
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I would hook up a small 12V battery or LAB PSU to the connector for the USB socket for example. If you have a car or motorbike nearby, just pull some wires. That should be able to power the whole 12V system. Then try charging it 🙂 I don't know how it reacts to 12V without the key, but if you connect to the plug right when you turn the key, then I guess it should be okay. Make sure that the voltage of the battery is not too low, because then the bike will try to charge the battery, drawing a bit too much current perhaps, which could blow the AUX fuse maybe.
I would check the battery voltage in the diagnostics screen. If it is 220 volts or more on a 333V pack you are probably fine if it allows you to charge. That will correspond to a cell voltage for 2.75V.
In your situation, I would take out the PSU ASAP so that it does not drain the battery.
Daniel Rohner might be able to fix it for you. He is located in Austria and is reachable on the Facebook group. He fixed two of mine. I have a spare now.
Just remove the front cover on the battery and check if the PSU has plugs on the bottom. If yes, you are good, if no, you have to be careful because you would need to solder off the 300V connection.
If with plugs, I can link to a video guide about how to remove the PSU. Takes 5 minutes.
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My PSU has been repaired. Apparently its control board has a microcontroller of some form and the program it runs got (not sure if firmware, memory, or a straight-up FPGA) wiped or lost. There is a guy in The Netherlands who had the program and the ability to reload it.