ElectricMotorcycleForum.com

  • September 02, 2026, 02:31:31 AM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Electric Motorcycle Forum is live!

Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic: EGO Corsa Cliente 1200 later  (Read 11706 times)

Specter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2836
    • View Profile
Re: EGO Corsa Cliente 1200 later
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2024, 11:34:44 PM »

That's one thing I wanted to do with my bike is a hand operated rear brake but to be honest, I almost NEVER use the rear brake, I use the heavy regen instead.  Only a few times I used it and they were oh shit moments.  To be honest in those moments you grab a lot of front brake as well, and on the race bike that'll push you into the windshield and you are not really ON the rear brake or have to re position your foot... to be honest, by the time you think about hitting it, you are already pretty much stopped, and when you do hit it, it's not doing a hell of a lot more because your regen is handling probably 80 percent of that rear stopping anyways, unless you are already picking your spot to be the next lawn ornament, in which case you really don't want to stomp the brakes.

One thing I have found out, if you Do run off track, slow down, YES, absolutely !! nobody wants to be doing 100 mph in the grass, but doing 30 or 40 is NOT a bad idea sometimes !!  Slow down but it does not have to be an emergency slow, (if you are heading for trees, well you are pretty much fkd anyways) emergency slows turn into spills.  but you still want speed to keep the bike stable.  5 to 10 mph you feel / hit and bounce off every bump and it upsets the bike.  30 plus mph you hit those same bumps but go right over them, (hopefully you have picked yourself off the seat and are using your knees as secondary shock absorbers to help with control and stability by now) and it's a relatively smooth ride with few control issues.

When on the road, I almost never use rear brakes, and to be honest, brakes at all until the very ass end of the stop, the last 5 mph or so to get the bike stopped and not slow rolling into the bumper in front of you  :D  The regen I use to control my speed down until I stop.  I prefer a longer but slower braking .vs. a shorter harder NEED the brakes if I can manage it.  Saves wear on the brakes and puts some jooce back into the battery at same time.  Still though, once a week or every few days, Ill do a stop with just the back brakes just to keep them 'fresh'  don't want brakes sitting unused for weeks.  stuff surface rusts, can corrode bla bla,  want to get some use in them to keep them limber...

Aaron
Logged

Pard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 702
    • View Profile
Re: EGO Corsa Cliente 1200 later
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2024, 02:10:57 AM »

Rear brake is a nice tool once you get used to it.  Much easier to modulate with hand compared to foot for me.

« Last Edit: December 12, 2024, 02:20:11 AM by Pard »
Logged

jotjotde

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 617
    • View Profile
Re: EGO Corsa Cliente 1200 later
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2024, 12:24:22 PM »

Maybe it's because I ride mostly in hilly areas I use the rear brake at lot.
Downhill in steep curves you don't close the throttle but reduce speed with the foot brake, work against the motor power and release the break after the apex. By that way you avoid the load change while leaning the bike over.

I would really like to operate the rear brake by hand lever, but such a refurbishment is not allowed here. You need to be a certfied disabled person to get a waiver for this.
Logged

Pard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 702
    • View Profile
Re: EGO Corsa Cliente 1200 later
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2024, 06:17:27 PM »

Maybe it's because I ride mostly in hilly areas I use the rear brake at lot.
Downhill in steep curves you don't close the throttle but reduce speed with the foot brake, work against the motor power and release the break after the apex. By that way you avoid the load change while leaning the bike over.

I would really like to operate the rear brake by hand lever, but such a refurbishment is not allowed here. You need to be a certfied disabled person to get a waiver for this.

Great point! 

Never use the front brake against throttle, but you can apply rear brake. 

In the above video, notice how much rear brake a pro moto gp rider uses midcorner at maitenance throttle and  with WOT coming out of a corner. 

Use rear brake to help set and maintain the line coming out of corners. 

Some expert riders never use it.

Just another tool in the toolbox.  Rear brake is more about steering, than stopping the bike. 

« Last Edit: December 12, 2024, 07:07:26 PM by Pard »
Logged

Specter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2836
    • View Profile
Re: EGO Corsa Cliente 1200 later
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2024, 06:02:26 AM »

Regen is basically the equivalent of rear brake. Unless you are using it with throttle, of course,(rear brake that is, you can't regen and throttle at same time)  I use it constantly.  ESPECIALLY IN TURNS,  it helps you get pointed where you need to while keeping the wheels loaded up.  Coming to regular stops regular riding, it's regen / rear brake all the way down.  No you do NOT want to hit the front brakes much at all coming into a turn, if you hit them while leaned over, hit them hard enough and it'll stand your ass right back up... that transition can be a very fine line..good luck on that turn!  Any hard / front braking really needs to be done BEFORE you start any kind of turning or leaning, but any additional braking,  to help the turn, it's rear all the way for me.
The funny thing is, I have heard several harley riders tell me, oh you NEVER use the front brake EVER!!  It'll cause a wreck every time!!

I would come into a turn fairly hot, let off the throttle and basically regen hard into it, let the regen pull me down into the direction I need, basically decreasing my turn radius until I am getting about where I want to go, then ill start bringing the throttle back up to push me out to the outside wall / line to get me lined up for the duck into 2 apex and hammer it all the way down to 3 at Jennings.  I got to a point where the only way I was going to shave time is to come in longer until I start braking on 1.. which means your regen no longer is enough to slow you in time to make the turn, so come in hot use brakes to get slowed down so you CAN make the turn, let off front brake let regen finish helping you turn as you feather and then finally open up the throttle again as you exit the turn and hold it all the way until you need to slow for 3-6.

It's a tool you can decide to use or not use.  Different riders do different things, and just like Trout fishing, there is no ONE correct way.  So much is situational, and also, how you learned to do it.  Some swear by it, others swear at it, who's right?  Well, they BOTH won many races, so maybe both of them are right.  Whatever fits your style best.

That's absolutely ridiculous not letting you have a lever operated rear brake unless you are crippled, I mean why not?  NO logical reason to do that, if it's giving the rider an extra, oft time better tool with which to ride with.  Sometimes your body positioning or leaning makes it difficult to get to the rear brake lever, or you have to actually think and make an effort to do that, feel around for the brake lever, and that takes brain power away from what's in front of you, to fiddle with what's under you.  Handlebars are there all the time, the brake can be pretty much muscle memory at that point and unless you are about to fly over the handlebars, easier to engage too.  Besides your fingertips give you awesome feedback how much pressure you are putting on the brakes, vs a foot in a solid boot stomping on a pedal where it's hard to judge the actual point of engagement.  I think now of my foot that I broke earlier in the year and it being mostly paralyzed now, and having to feel on that?  Yah that's a game changer there if it was my brake foot.  It IS my shifting foot, and that is already a problem on an ice bike, no more quick pow pow pow on the shift lever when your nerves don't fire that fast anymore and it feels more like a piece of 2 x 4 than a foot.

Finally if you get into an emergency situation, ie some fucknut pulls in front of you and STOPS and you are about to T bone them at 60 MPH, you are going to be standing, pulling, praying for any method of stopping you can think of.  You are so tensed up that modulating the rear brake, you may not be able to if you start to slide, although ABS should help you a bit if you got it, having a brake lever might make it easier to control...just some idle thoughts on that, I hope I never find myself in a situation like that again!

My front brake is sensitive, you just give it a little fingerin and it's engaged  solidly.  If I want to come in for a slow roll down, it's easier to regen down or just rear brake all the way down, it's a less aggressive less sensitive way to brake.

Aaron
Logged

jotjotde

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 617
    • View Profile
Re: EGO Corsa Cliente 1200 later
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2024, 12:17:54 PM »

I totally agree, that prohibiting changing the rear brake to left hand lever makes absolutely no sense. All race bicycles and mtb have that since decades  ::)

Probably some leftover regulation from forty years go  when everything on the bike was cable-operated. Regarding two-wheelers in general the German lawmakers are slow-assed. Took them nearly 8 years to allow LED-lighting on bicyles. And even the tree-huggers (Aaron has probably some other names for them  8)) have not yet taken any actions against noise from exhaust pipes, which is quite ridiculous. The current Panigale/Streetfighter V4 emits 106 dB!
Logged

CagivaRider

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
    • View Profile
Re: EGO Corsa Cliente 1200 later
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2024, 04:51:54 AM »

As a former, long-time roadracer and offroad competitor, using the rear brake is an essential skill. On the track, you can use it to settle the bike entering a curve under hard braking, even when most of the weight transfer is on the front wheel. In offroad, you use it to get the back of the bike to slide out a bit to make quicker direction changes.

The reason motorcycle laws may prohibit left hand brakes probably goes back to the international standardization of controls. How many of you remember having to reprogram your brains as to whether the bike shifted on the left or right, or had up-for-first or down-for-first? I had a hell of a time switching from race bikes on the same day that either had GP shifting (up for first, down for the rest) or street shifting.

MotoGP bikes use a thumb brake on the left as well as a clutch lever.

https://www.paddock-gp.com/en/motogp-technique-from-foot-to-thumb-evolution-of-braking-style-2-2/
Logged
2023 Energica Experia Launch Edition
2015 BMW F800GT
2001 Moto Guzzi V11-Sport
1987 Cagiva Alazzurra 650
1985 Yamaha RZ350

Pard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 702
    • View Profile
Re: EGO Corsa Cliente 1200 later
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2024, 09:48:55 PM »

« Last Edit: December 17, 2024, 09:54:52 PM by Pard »
Logged

Specter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2836
    • View Profile
Re: EGO Corsa Cliente 1200 later
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2024, 07:04:54 AM »

There's a lady on the track that is crippled.  she has no legs and they lift her on and off her bike to go racing / riding.   All of her controls are on the handlebars, brakes, shifting, clutch, everything.

I dare ANY of you to make any comments about her abilities on the track.  She'll wipe the walls with you and leave you wondering what the hell just happened !!

next time she is in town, I absolutely am going to be looking at her setup because I am seriously looking for alternatives for me when it comes to shifting when on ICE and well, the braking too.  I like hand controls and obviously her's are set up right.

Aaron
Logged

Demoni

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 392
  • Energica Service Manager
    • View Profile
    • Energica
Re: EGO Corsa Cliente 1200 later
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2024, 12:48:56 PM »

https://racetorx.co.uk/product-category/thumb-brakes/

Nice thumbrake hardware here.

RaceTorx actually makes a conversion kit for the Brembo (RTX450) rear master cylinder used on Energica motos. This will allow an additional input source to be used for the rear brake caliper.
https://racetorx.co.uk/product/jv/
The MotoE riders could opt for a left hand rear brake, Energica used Brembo RCS14 clutch MC's.

During my time in the MotoAmerica pits I was lucky enough to absorb knowledge about getting the maximum pace out of a bike, both from pro level riders and their crew chiefs. My take away was there is never a "right way" to ride, it's a balance between the rider adapting their style to compliment the bike and the crew chief tuning the bike to best suit the rider. Some bikes are more flexible in how they can be set up and some riders are better at adapting on the fly. All riders used the rear brake to stop, steer and stabilize the bike. They use it on corner entry, at the apex, during exit and on the straightaway. The amount they use it depended on what electronic rider aids are available for a specific classes rules.

Dragging the rear brake on corner entry allows you to rotate the rear of the bike towards the outside, this points the front wheel towards the apex. Getting to the apex faster minimizes the time before you can reapply the throttle, with big HP bikes maximizing time at WOT is how you go fast.
Using the rear brake at the apex allows them to control how fast the rear shock rebounds through it's stroke. This lets them play with the front / rear balance of the bike. It also let's them adjust how much the rear tire slips, race slicks provide max lateral grip when they rotating some % faster or slower than ground speed.
Applying the rear brake during corner exit helps keep the weight balance towards the rear and allows the rider to modulate the rear shock travel. Ideally maximizing contact between the rear tire and the ground. Also helps to prevent the front end from coming up on bikes without wheele control.

Being able to accurately modulate the rear brake when you need it is key, too much force and you loose the rear end. From the telemetry data I have seen .05-1.5 BAR of force is all riders apply to the rear brake. For reference riders can apply ~14 BAR to the front brake.


 
Logged

Pard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 702
    • View Profile
Re: EGO Corsa Cliente 1200 later
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2024, 03:50:37 PM »

^^^ Great post!
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]