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[princec]

The same details were available quite sometime back on the Williams Advanced Engineering site: https://www.wae.com/what-we-do/case-studies/triumph-te-1
More on the battery tech here: https://www.wae.com/what-we-do/case-studies/multi-chem

"The unit showcased has a total stored energy of 60kWh, with a core battery mass of 345kg." Hmm

Cas

[Richard230]

I think my main observation is that they have too many cooks in their kitchen. 

I was thinking about government EV grants this afternoon and one thing I really like about Zero is that they spent their $900K Obama stimulus grant (if memory serves) on retaining a really smart consultant to design their 2013 electric motor. My recollection is that they also received either a grant or a loan from Santa Cruz County that they used to rent their first large factory building. I really appreciate seeing concrete results from a government grant and not just a bunch of spin that goes nowhere until the money runs out as seems to happen to many such endeavors.

[Richard230]

The same details were available quite sometime back on the Williams Advanced Engineering site: https://www.wae.com/what-we-do/case-studies/triumph-te-1
More on the battery tech here: https://www.wae.com/what-we-do/case-studies/multi-chem

"The unit showcased has a total stored energy of 60kWh, with a core battery mass of 345kg." Hmm

Cas

If my calculator is correct, that would be one heavy battery. 

[Richard230]

And here is a YouTube video discussing the TE-1 project: 

The claim is that the finished motorcycle will weigh 220 Kg, have a range of 120 miles and be able to recharge to 80% within 20 minutes. They also say that the finished bike will be ready to go later this year to be evaluated by focus groups and likely the press. It sounds to me like they are following in the footsteps of the H-D LiveWire prototype.  And we know how long that took to get to the market.

Another comment is that the motor spins to 18K rpm. It was also mentioned that that the bike would not be marketed until it could be offered at a price that their customers would be willing to pay.

[Sklith]

I love belt drives, so I'm hoping they keep it!

Cas

I'm just a bit worried it'll snap on me. Oh well, it's easy to to convert.

[Crissa]

Don't chains fail after fewer miles than belts?

-Crissa

[shayan]

The same details were available quite sometime back on the Williams Advanced Engineering site: https://www.wae.com/what-we-do/case-studies/triumph-te-1
More on the battery tech here: https://www.wae.com/what-we-do/case-studies/multi-chem

"The unit showcased has a total stored energy of 60kWh, with a core battery mass of 345kg." Hmm

Cas

If my calculator is correct, that would be one heavy battery. 

I guess it won't be an exact 1-1 downgrade of the 60kWh pack to something like 15kWh. But more of the technology that goes in. So it may not be (345/4) kg
It should be reasonable enough. We're talking about Williams here and they have state of the art technology and engineering for sure.

[Fran K]

Don't chains fail after fewer miles than belts?

-Crissa

That seems beyond the scope of this thread.  Chains and sprockets generally wear.  Does this prototype have drive line cushioning might be something to ask.

[princec]

345/4 is still around 80kg, which is about the same weight as the Zero 14.4. The Zero's battery is hobbled somewhat by having no active cooling so maybe Triumph have been looking closely at managing that battery temperature to enable their fast charging.

Cas

[JaimeC]

Considering this story now seems to be covered by damn near EVERY motorcycle news site I follow, I'd say Triumph's marketing division is now in full "Microsoft levels of FUD" mode.  Same information at every site too.  Must be a slow news day.  Best line I saw was Electrek pointing out that companies like Zero figured out how to build electric motorcycles over a decade ago WITHOUT the British government throwing free money at them.

[princec]

The Triumph guys are very firmly entrenched traditionalists when it comes to motorcycle design, I think. They're not interested in electric because of environmental concerns, or even the various advantages* EVs have, only because they're being made to be interested in it, and only because they're getting money thrown at them. They still feel it is their right to burn petrol and enjoy burning it as long as they're allowed to. Personally I think the govt. should start to levy increasingly punitive taxation on petrol engines until manufacturers can't sell them any more.

Cas

* with caveats of course about their massive disadvantages in certain situations

[Richard230]

The Triumph guys are very firmly entrenched traditionalists when it comes to motorcycle design, I think. They're not interested in electric because of environmental concerns, or even the various advantages* EVs have, only because they're being made to be interested in it, and only because they're getting money thrown at them. They still feel it is their right to burn petrol and enjoy burning it as long as they're allowed to. Personally I think the govt. should start to levy increasingly punitive taxation on petrol engines until manufacturers can't sell them any more.

Cas

* with caveats of course about their massive disadvantages in certain situations

How many years have the English motorcycle fraternity talked about building a "World Beater"?  A very long time, according to my memory. It seems to be a national goal. 

Meanwhile the videos regarding the TE-1 development are coming thick and fast. Here is the latest - but probably not the last. (With all of the press releases and YouTube videos coming out I get the impression that the project is trolling for another round of government grants to keep all of the various technology partners moving along toward their goal.)

[JaimeC]

Meanwhile the videos regarding the TE-1 development are coming thick and fast. Here is the latest - but probably not the last. (With all of the press releases and YouTube videos coming out I get the impression that the project is trolling for another round of government grants to keep all of the various technology partners moving along toward their goal.)

B I N G O ! ! !

[wavelet]

Nice long article.  I have yet to finish it but taking deposits thankfully is absent.  Hopefuh the hub motor cheering squad here reads the mass placement sentences.  Zero and Triumph seem to be at the same dealerships often.  Why a government funds getting a 180 hp sport bike out in circulation is puzzling.  Is a human really capable of operating such.  Frame at the steering neck is strange.

The UK wants their EV production to be focused on premium vehicles, and performance-oriented motorcycles fit the bill pretty well. A 180 hp sportbike is considered somewhat underpowered by today's standards.

Edit: The UK's reason for focusing on premium EVs is because of how high-margin they can be.

Edit 2: Oh god, the prototype pics have a belt drive on that thing. I hope they switch to a chain when it goes to production!

What production? I saw no commitment to production of an actual motorcycle in that PR or earlier ones. Also, that's not a prototype. It's generic research for the building blocks that would be required for a BEV bike. I expect all OEMs are doing this quietly, to be ready once they think the market is mature enough. We know Royal Enfield is, as is Kawasaki, and at least 2-3 others.

[wavelet]

And here is a YouTube video discussing the TE-1 project: 

The claim is that the finished motorcycle will weigh 220 Kg, have a range of 120 miles and be able to recharge to 80% within 20 minutes.

That 120mi range is according to the WMTC standard, which is one I haven't heard of before; it's a UN standard that primarily measures emissions. Quick googling didn't yield the test cycle conditions, but that the Livewire has a 98mi range according to the same test. It therefore sounds like a combo city/highway number. Since the Livewire apparently has a 70mi at 70mph range, if this scales lineraly, we're talking ~86mi @70mph range. Completely uninteresting to me  .

They also say that the finished bike will be ready to go later this year to be evaluated by focus groups and likely the press. It sounds to me like they are following in the footsteps of the H-D LiveWire prototype. 
Another comment is that the motor spins to 18K rpm.

Completely irrelevant, as the challenge is always how much power you can get through the motor while still keeping thing sufficiently cool, and with a reliable cooling system that doesn't take up too much space or weight.
Ditto the single number in the PR -- max motor power of ~180HP. Worthless journalists. The only worthwhile article would contain the envelope of target specs: Power (continuous & peak), torque, acceleration, cruising speed, weight, estimated battery capacity... And price. No numbers --> an article is not justified.

While some people (myself included) may think Damon is overly aggressive in their goals and is unlikely to meet them (or even half of them), they get full credit for being very clear what their targets are regarding all of the above,  so it'll be possible to judge how close they come to meeting them.