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[Specter]

So, I was at the track and my bike was being a total bitch, not wanting to charge.
It'd time out, it's sit there in 'initiating'.  sometimes it'd lock up and id have to fiddle fuck with the key for a few mintues for something to finally time out and let the bike shut off and reset, etc etc.

Tried my normal tricks of hefting the cable over my shoulder to drop straight in so it's not pulling against the side, nope,  the push wiggle up, nope.  Took a real good look and seen just a bit of dust in there, i dropped it earlier in the dirt, and thought i had blown it out good enough.  i didn't.

so, a good cleaning with some alcohol and a prox brush.  some of those prongs in there have center holes.  goto the toothbrush section of the store, and they sell between the teeth brushes, kind of like tapered pipe cleaners.  dip one of these in alcohol, and run it in and out the plug holes to get it all cleaned out, yep a little crud in there.  You can also use the thing, one of the bigger ones to do the roundy roundy on the outside of the prongs too where you can reach to get the crud out of there too.

Even for AC, the main charging voltage is 115 VAC to 240 ish VAC.  That'll push thru a bit of corrosion pretty easily.  The pilot signal and the comms signals now, those can drop to as little as 3 volts.  3 volts is flea power, pretty much ANY thing can stop that from flowing, and if the signal gets attenuated, or worse, corrupted, which can cause a software lockup, now you have to play games.

 Ive seen numerous complaints of charging issues, and wanted to re iterate, yes even if it looks clean, just a little bit can kill you.  Silver can oxidie and corrode, some contact cleaner might help in that case.   if it's tin flashed, then CC will work well there too.   use a dip or q tip don't want to spray CC on the plastic, it might eat it.

Speaking of the plastic.  the plug heads, especially when it's cold out, the stuff gets stiff, and very.... frictiony, it don't want to slide very well, and even that last 32nd of an inch / sub mm of travel to fully flush seat that plug flush, if it's not all the way down, that check fails, you don't charge.

i have found that some plastic cleaner / lubricant, like Car Wax, ie Turtle Wax or similar, carefully applied, (don't want to get it into the contacts we just cleaned now do we? ) can help make the plastic a bit smoother more slippery to help it slide in and out a bit easier.

Once i got the stuff cleaned the rest of the weekend went pretty flawless.

I wonder how hard it would be for Energica, or anyone really to make some sort of monitor that checks the comms / resistance across the connection, so you can get like an indicator on the dash, plug not inserted fully, or something to let you know it's an issue before things time out.  or better yet run the shit at a higher voltage, or make CCS 2.0 for the entire industry, that has a wireless there like the gas pumps have,  there is a bluetooth like thingie in the head and it comms wirelessly so you don't need to worry about low voltage issues.  I know this is not just an Energica issue and it's not going to go away on it's own.

Aaron

[Stonewolf]

The sockets are off-the-shelf (I believe they're rated to 50kW) so they're kinda limited to what technology they can get from socket suppliers. I guess they could do something with checking voltages or resistance but I'm not sure how you'd do that without knowing the exact details of the charger which likely vary within a tolerance range even between different units of the same design.

[jotjotde]

Are you sure it was not the plug of the charger that was resposible for this?
Or the charger software?

I have two chargers on my frequently used roads which are very hard to convince to work with my Ribelle.
One is already quite old, must be one of the first chargers ever built and the plug is well worn, so I assume this is the reason
The other one is bright new, but somehow I need to initiate charging at least three times to make the charger work. I suspect it has to do with waiting time, establishing communication and so on. What irks me is, that all cars at this charger do not have this problem, it's only my Italian lady.

[Stonewolf]

I suspect it has to do with waiting time, establishing communication and so on.

Something that bugs me immensely is chargers that enforce plug->payment because if you want to use contactless the payment step is the slowest part and all that time my bike is counting down to a timeout.

[Specter]

jojo the plug of the charger contributes to it, yes that is a major problem especially in a public place where god only knows what it gets exposed to etc.  That plug can also leave gunk in your bike which can accumulate over time.  id recommend cleaning both.

by measuring the resistance, what i mean is, the software of the bike has to talk right? it does some kind of comms,  ie,  is the plug fully seated,  meaning  is the switch closed? no, then don't work.  make a little led light or something on the dash so that if that switch is not made, (it knows the moment you plug the damned thing in) the light comes on or something to let you know, wiggle the plug.  The comm one, i believe is running from 3 to 12 volts, well when you initialize, have another led, if you are not getting voltage, that means THAT pin is not made on the plug.   The actual issue kind of determines what kind of fault you end up with.  sometimes it just stalls, if it is a loose connection, or noisy comms, dirt etc, corrupt data can cause it to lock up, and yes that's probably a software problem.

DIRTY connections is a major contributor to many of these problems.  Granted, nobody wants to be cleaning all the pubic stations but if you need to charge, and it's acting up a Q tip and some IPA might help, also pushing the plug up towards the round part, not the lower oval with the DC plugs, that tends to align it a bit better / force the pins in and can help with the initial talking to get the whole protocol rolling.

when you look at the protocol here it communicates with, it's like 1970s HAM radio technology, ancient, there has to be a much better way to communicate and make things work better,

Aaron

[szczur333]

The sockets are off-the-shelf (I believe they're rated to 50kW) so they're kinda limited to what technology they can get from socket suppliers. I guess they could do something with checking voltages or resistance but I'm not sure how you'd do that without knowing the exact details of the charger which likely vary within a tolerance range even between different units of the same design.

ccs sockets are rated by current - 80-100-125-150-200-250-350-400-500A
only difference between them is diameter for wire on DC terminals

so if you buy 80-100A then probably you can fit 16mm wire or maybe 25mm max

energica and livewire use 16mm - as we know on energica we have 75A DC limit , i didnt test livewire fully but max what I got was 80A but my charger info said bms is max 100A

[ElectricRebel]

The Charging Socket is a standard one from "Phoenix Contact".
I had some problems with my bike too,
Sometimes a reset via the MODE and SET button works wonders.
Keeping ESPECIALLY the short CP pin clean also helps ...
I've written with Phoenix Contact about the Energica issue, they state it's loosing the
CP-signal due to the pull of the cable.
If there is some maniac that would put in a longer "CP-Pin" in the socket that might help get
a better connection 🤣😜...and better charge initialization. Problem is...no one will do that🙃

Jonas

[szczur333]

The Charging Socket is a standard one from "Phoenix Contact".
I had some problems with my bike too,
Sometimes a reset via the MODE and SET button works wonders.
Keeping ESPECIALLY the short CP pin clean also helps ...
I've written with Phoenix Contact about the Energica issue, they state it's loosing the
CP-signal due to the pull of the cable.
If there is some maniac that would put in a longer "CP-Pin" in the socket that might help get
a better connection 🤣😜...and better charge initialization. Problem is...no one will do that🙃

Jonas

proximity pin is shorter - CP is normal lenght - it is about 26-27mm long - in socket and in plug - so longer terminal will not work and even if I make some mistake in measurments lets say 1-2mm it will not change much

you can always try to make custom CP terminal but a little thicker (nickelplated brass) and check if this will work

[Specter]

Jonas, the problem with the cp signal loss is not so much length but the cable causing the plug to be twisted or pulled downward by it's weight.  That cocks the head, which flexes the pin, breaking rhe contact.  At this point ,it might be so weak that even vibrations of wind blowing, traffic vibrating the car is enough to cause it to put noise into the signal, and there you go, failed start.

plug a plug into your mains and grab the cable and yank down on it, or put a 10 lb weight on it pulling it to the floor, eventually the prongs are going to bend and stretch making it only worse.

your idea of a longer pin might help a bit, but then  again, gives more distortion, think fulcrum point and see saw, and you end up snapping the pin off or just spreading it wider.

Since the comms is only a signal cable, why not make the power cable the rigid thing you see but the comms / gable like a usb cable or like a headphone jack or something.   it's still esquisitely low tech, but has some built in bend, so you plug the power in, plug the headphone plug in and then charge, the comm section is now like in it's own sub form factor, much more robust, reliable etc.

CCS 2.0  where are you?   honestly you could re design the male plug with a bit of a spring load behind the prongs to help this too, or even the female end, this does not have to be a rocket science fix. you push it in and actually GIVE it a little wiggle wiggle, the spring tension on the data pins as you are wiggling push them in, snug them in, now you have a much more solid data path...

aaron