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Messages - flynnstig82r

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1
To you or me, yes, but Lightning and Damon have shown that you can keep some people on the hook for years as long as you keep drip-feeding tantalizing updates. Also, they’re probably going to promise initial delivery dates sometime in late 2026 or 2027, so they’d only have to string people along for 2-3 years if SS tech will actually be deliverable at scale starting in 2029 or 2030.

I’ll know I was right if most people’s orders get delayed past 2027, or if people get their bike delivered with a standard li-ion pack under the promise it will be upgraded to solid-state with some cacamimi story about why the solid-state pack couldn’t be supplied yet even though the tech is for sure, definitely in full production. If they deliver more than a token number of orders this year or next, I’ll be happy to say I was wrong. Surprised, but happy.

2
I feel like their play here is to get orders for Donut batteries by using the Verge motorbike to make it appear that they’re already in mass production of solid-state cells, years ahead of other solid-state battery makers, generating buzz in the hopes of getting industrial contracts. My speculative guess is that Donut is going to be ready for mass production c2030 just like every other SS battery maker, but they can produce 30 kwh packs right now for high cost at small scale, so they’re going to put batteries that cost maybe $100k into a bike that sells for $40k, fulfill just enough Verge orders in 2026-27 for people to believe it’s really in regular production, then delay everyone else’s Verge orders until they can actually sell these things at a profit. Basically subsidizing the cost of the bike as a stealth marketing campaign to get large contracts, which is where the real money is. I could be wrong, that’s just how I read the tea leaves.

3
Other Electric Motorcycles / Re: Very interesting development
« on: January 06, 2026, 11:29:43 AM »
Color me cautiously optimistic. I’m a lot less skeptical of Verge than some other recent high-flyers because they’ve managed to deliver an actual product that people can ride and that matched the promises made. 33 kWh is impressive, but potentially achievable, so I don’t put it in the same category of BS as, say 200 MPH and 200 miles of range. The 600 km (360 mi) range claim is nonsense, of course, unless you’re riding in a bike lane the whole time. Experia x 1.5 is roughly 195 highway miles, which would be better than most gas bikes and very welcome. Now, for my money, I’d still rather wait until the tech gets put onto an Energica or equivalent unless Verge gathers some dealers and stands the test of time. It sounds like they depend on VC money, and could be on borrowed time if investors get impatient.

4
Buy Sell Trade / Re: 2023 Energica SS9 RS+
« on: November 26, 2025, 01:48:19 AM »
I’m interested, I just have to get my ducks in a row. I’ll PM you.

5
Energica / Re: Might be moving on
« on: November 25, 2025, 03:17:18 AM »
I understand what you are saying and I have done that a few times on other sites with more visibility and got offers of tools or rc cars for trade. Seems like sub $7k is asking too much.
Ill put something new together and put it up.
 
I’m not really in a position to consider a bike purchase right now, but once you have the listing ready and if it’s a good enough deal, I might have to tell my wife I came down with a case of temporary insanity!

6
Electric Motorcycle News / Re: Zero at EICMA. They have a scooter
« on: November 13, 2025, 02:30:01 AM »
A commentator on Electrek seemed to think that this Zero scooter is the same as the CSC ES5 that you can buy right now for $2k off. Just in case anyone is interested and doesn't want to pay for the Zero badge or wait for availability.

7
Damon / Re: Visordown Article
« on: October 04, 2025, 10:45:41 PM »
People who got swept into the hype didn’t understand how hard it is to design and build a high performance motorcycle. As soon as I saw that people with no serious manufacturing or racing experience were claiming to leapfrog Energica, who had been on the leading edge of e-moto performance for a decade and had accumulated a ton of institutional knowledge, I knew it was a scam. Even garage-built hypercars typically have a ton of pedigree from designers and engineers who were tired of the corporate shackles and wanted to do their own thing. It’s never just a bunch of shady tech and finance bros leapfrogging the whole industry on their first try. Even Tesla spent years and years poaching Lotus employees to build their early knowledge base.

8
General Discussion / Re: Are ebikes impacting ICE motorcycle sales?
« on: September 28, 2025, 10:28:52 AM »
I’ll keep that in mind, thanks! I don’t actually have the moped running yet, and I’ll probably only ride it a few miles a week, so even if I’m overpaying for fuel, I’d probably only go through a couple of gallons per year. I still have the Yamaha for longer trips, this will be mostly for when I don’t feel like pedaling to work or to accompany my wife while she learns to ride the 150cc scooter around the neighborhood. Mostly, it was cheap and I’ve always been curious about those little things. Don’t know if I’ll keep it once it’s running or just have a little fun and flip it to the next buyer.

9
General Discussion / Re: Are ebikes impacting ICE motorcycle sales?
« on: September 28, 2025, 12:50:22 AM »
Are you even allowed to bring a 125 cc onto the highway?  in Florida i think 250 is the minimum CC you have to have to get on the interstates.  That's for a good reason too, the speed limits are 70 mph, often times the cops are not even going to start waking up until you are doing 85 plus.
I was talking about city streets once you get past the freeway underpasses, where the lanes are wider and people go a lot faster. The 125+ cc is the only one that can still keep up. I have done some dumb things in my life, but I wouldn’t ride a 125 on the freeway :).

Quote
scooters do serve a purpose, but people on both sides of the 'obstacle' need to mind their ego's.
The scooter trash who won't move over to let the cars go by is a big problem, pissing people off is not how to stay alive.
The jackass in his cadillac, who can't wait 30 seconds to get in a safe area to pass the guy on the scooter, jesus asshole, you can't wait until the road opens up in a block to go flying by at 70 mph without running the scooter off the road, WHO by the way has just as much right to be on the road as you do?

Then you got both sides who are too busy looking at their phones, and running into each other that way.   ::)
In this case, I was actually on a pedal bike where there’s a big downhill section. It’s one of those funny, narrow and low-visibility 2-way roads through Golden Gate Park in San Francisco. The speed limit is 25 MPH, but anything faster than 15-20 MPH isn’t really safe in a car because someone can come around the corner pointed right at you with no warning. On a bicycle, though, the slope means you can come down at 30 MPH, and it’s very safe because you can ride all the way on the right side of the road so there’s no oncoming vehicle risk, no intersections, or any other risk factors. This joker decided he wasn’t going to get left behind by a guy on a bike, so he took the blind 20 MPH turn at 50+ fully in the oncoming traffic lane. It’s not a busy road, but it’s not lonely, either, and cars come through all the time. I’d say he had about a 1 in 5 chance of a head-on collision that he wouldn’t have been able to avoid or survive.

Quote
ahh, but, you can't take a scooter on a bike trail, you'll get ticketed in a heartbeat... and that bike trail, lets you beat that 35 minutes of morning bullshit traffic jam, and 45 minute bs jam coming back home.  your e bike with it's pedals, you get on the bike trail and 5 minutes later are on the other side of the mess.

no neither the bike or scooter is really built to handle potholes.  At least on a bike you can go flying off and hopefully find a patch of grass to go rolling to a stop in.  in a golf cart or other enclosed 'vehicle' you are kind of trapped and smashing that windshield at 20 mph is going to be absolutely devastating. THAT is why the speeds are limited on those things, because past that speed you now need seat belts, and all the signaling and stuff a real vehicle needs.

now lets take a 15 yo, put them on a 'bicycle' that can do 30 plus mph and let him go flying around on the sidewalks around the shopping mall, scaring the little old ladies with his acrobatics.  but is he really any worse than the gixxer tard doing his wheelies and burnouts in the middle of the intersection waiting for the light to change?

As an interesting twist.  your little bike runs of gas.  i am surprised nobody has made a propane one yet.  it runs off those little blue or green bottles you can buy at the hardware store.  those are also very easily refillable from the bigger 15 lb bbq tanks too.  it might be arguably safer than gasoline engines, and might be easier to thwart certain regs too as it's not a 'gasoline' engine.

aaron
I don’t have occasion to use the separated bike trails on the levy very often, but I would definitely go e-bike over moped if I used them regularly. I wouldn’t ride a moped on those trails, that would just be a dick move. As far as regular painted bike lanes, it’s not really clear here in Sac whether you’re allowed to use them on an M2 moped, but everyone does so I wouldn’t hesitate. I wouldn’t need to use the bike lane on the slow neighborhood roads, and the bike lanes on the fast roads are empty anyway, so no one is going to care. I would definitely try a propane one if such a thing existed. I have to get the 50:1 2-stroke fuel at the hardware store, anyway.

The “sidewalk menace” debate is complicated. I have definitely seen people buzzing past pedestrians and around corners on e-bikes and e-scooters, so I get why people are upset. However, how many people are actually seriously injured or killed every year vs run over by cars or trucks? So we’re having a lot of debate about the safety of vehicles that don’t kill people and no debate whatsoever about the vehicles that do.

10
General Discussion / Re: Are ebikes impacting ICE motorcycle sales?
« on: September 27, 2025, 12:22:10 AM »
The kinds of things Specter mentions are already happening. You can’t ride an Onyx RCR anymore in a lot of California cities without getting pulled over, for instance. You might still get away with something equivalent that looks more “bicycle.”

I see high-powered e-bikes as a new take on old 49cc mopeds. No insurance and lax registration requirements, but you wouldn’t want to ride one on a main road unless it’s in the bike lane. Here in Sacramento, I can get around the slower streets of our neighborhood and downtown on a bicycle, moped / e-bike, or 125cc scooter / motorcycle equally well, but as soon as I go past any freeway underpasses in any direction, the 125cc is the only one that can still hang with traffic and not make me feel like I’m going to get run over.

Just like mopeds, e-bikes can technically be built or modded to hit 45+ MPH, but they’re still not safe to ride on a 45 MPH road. E-bikes aren’t safe because drivers will assume you’re going to be a slow obstacle and drive insanely aggressively to get around you*, mopeds aren’t safe because they may have the top speed but they don’t have the acceleration and also invite aggressive driving, and both aren’t safe because they don’t have the suspension, brakes, and tires to handle potholes and other conditions at those speeds, especially non-DOT e-bikes.

I do like e-bikes and see the potential, but when I got our 150cc Chinese Lambretta clone, it hit me that all the things e-bikes can do, scooters have been doing cheaper and better for decades. Acceleration, top speed, safety, storage and utility, all vastly better than an e-bike. Usually more sustainable because small-displacement scooters get 90+ MPG and don’t get ridden a huge number of miles, which makes their lifetime carbon footprint really small, probably smaller than something whose battery had to get manufactured using materials from all over the world and shipped ten thousand miles. Assuming I change the oil and adjust the valves, my Znen scooter will run just as well in 10 years as it does now, can the same be said for an AliExpress e-bike? The only real advantage in California is you don’t have to insure an e-bike and pay the usurious annual registration fee, but I don’t expect that to last forever, either. I’m not against e-bikes and have built and owned several, I just don’t think any e-bike is a serious replacement for a scooter or motorcycle over 50cc.

*I once had a guy pass me doing over double the speed limit around a blind corner in the incoming traffic lane, he’s lucky he’s still alive. Actually that was 10+ years ago so there’s a good chance he’s not, driving like that.

11
Electric Motorcycle News / Re: Motobob on the WN7
« on: September 21, 2025, 09:52:59 AM »
Love that image! 100 lbs of coffee in the top case, chickens sticking their heads out of the side bags, knee down in the corner.

12
Electric Motorcycle News / Re: Motobob on the WN7
« on: September 20, 2025, 11:15:04 PM »
It's not always about touring, it's practicality. I don't have a car so having a top box on my bike makes shopping a lot more feasible, also means I don't have to carry my helmet around with me everywhere I go. Also for taking crap like tools to work, or to my sisters to help out with DIY.
Amen! This is why I had a top box mount made for my SS9 13.4. Manufacturers need to get out of the “bikes = toys” mindset and realize that a lot of electric buyers are looking to live as car-free or car-lite as they can. Without full luggage, you just can’t replace a car for most practical trips.

13
Electric Motorcycle News / Re: Motobob on the WN7
« on: September 18, 2025, 10:32:34 AM »
I don’t hate it. It’s not in Energica territory in either capability or price, but it’s always a treat to see another CCS-capable bike. With fast charging, hopefully 15+ kwh and the Honda badge, it might actually have a chance.

It’s tiptoeing around repeating Livewire’s mistake of trying to compete in the middleweight category, though, which is the toughest nut for electrics to crack, and I think it will be 15-20 years before an electric 650cc equivalent can compete on both range and price with ICE bikes. I also feel like any road bike that’s intended to leave city limits should have at least 90 miles of highway range at Interstate speeds of 75 MPH, preferably 100+. Otherwise you’re courting a very small and fickle audience of multi-bike owners who don’t mind the range limitations but also don’t already have a premium electric motorbike. There’s a reason the Energica Experia had a full order book and the offerings from Zero and Livewire didn’t, IMO, and it was the 130 mile highway range. 80 miles is pretty good, especially when combined with a fast CCS charger, but I still think it’s going to scare away a lot of potential buyers.

As an electric upgrade path, it might tempt some Zero owners, but probably only the S-platform owners, as I have trouble imaging a lot of SR/F and SR/S owners giving up all that torque and acceleration. I can’t imagine any Energica owners making the trade. Owners of Surrons, Super Socos, and similar brands, though, might find it very tempting, and might be attracted to the Honda name. So might Stark Varg owners who fell in love with electric and now want a highway-capable electric road bike.

I give a 50/50 chance of selling well. If it doesn’t, and dealers become desperate to get rid of them, it could make for some good bargains to be had in a couple years.

14
Electric Motorcycle News / Re: Ducati with solid state batteris at IAA
« on: September 15, 2025, 10:46:05 AM »
I think we’d all love to see a massive leap forward from solid state batteries, but it was “3 to 5 years away” 10 years ago and it still is now. It’s good that solid state cells are at least making their way into concept vehicles and small, premium mobile devices, but it’s not a guarantee that they will ever replace traditional Li-ion cells for EVs. When you look at the graveyard of Next Big Things, enthusiasts always assumed that engineering problems would be solved and financial or scaling problems would be overcome against the moving target of the dominant technology, which continues to improve every year.

Dominant battery tech for EVs has only changed once in over a hundred years, twice if you count the brief reign of NiMH. Solid state, sodium, zinc air, etc. were all supposed to be the Next Big Thing, and they either fizzled out or proved themselves to be better at certain things, worse at others. Li-ion may not be improving by leaps and bounds every year anymore, but it’s still getting cheaper and denser, and it’s going to be hard for any replacement technology to offer better energy density for less money while being just as safe.

Fantastical claims have to be taken into context. It’s easy to brag about short recharge times when you’re not offering a warranty to the public. Today’s li-ion cells could probably handle similar amperages, just not for a public product that has to meet its guaranteed performance for years under a variety of conditions.

15
Energica / Re: Hope for Energica?
« on: September 04, 2025, 02:48:29 AM »
It would have been nice to have concrete details, but it’s an encouraging update none-the-less.

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