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Messages - Michael11

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1
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: Severe battery degradation?
« on: April 02, 2019, 12:52:52 PM »
I think, we are talking about different issues. You seem to be referring to a "glitch" that keeps the light on, even after the 220V cord is detached, right?

My experience with the old firmware was:
- Bike keyed off
- 220V cable attached
- bike turns on into charging mode: green like turns on and flashes, dash turns on and shows current SOC and remaining charging time
- when bike is 100% charged, green light stops flashing and stays on solid, dash keeps showing 100% and 0:00 time charging remaining
- when I then pull the 220V cable, the bike turns off

My experience with the new firmware is:
- Bike keyed off
- 220V cable attached
- bike turns on into charging mode: green like turns on and flashes, dash turns on and shows current SOC and remaining charging time
- when bike is 100% charged, BIKE TURNS OFF: green light off and dash off!
- when I then pull the 220V cable, nothing more happens (well, the bike is off already)
- when I reconnect the 220V cable, bike turns on again, goes into charging mode for a short time (less then one minute), then turns off again as before

That is a new behavior for me. Is that normal now?


2
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: Severe battery degradation?
« on: April 01, 2019, 02:53:12 PM »
One other question:

I am monitoring the pack Capacity, battery voltage and SOC now very carefully. During the last charging I wanted to monitor the end voltage after charging. I experienced a strange phenomenom: The voltage shown on the "Zero Voltage App" went up to 116.9 V, then the bike turned off, even though the charger was still emitting some 5-9A charging current.

I have never seen that before. Typically the bike remains on in charging mode until I unplug the 220V cable. Is this a new behaviour of the new firmware or is the charger defect and the bike turns off to protect the battery? (116.9V seemed pretty high to me)

3
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: Severe battery degradation?
« on: April 01, 2019, 02:48:45 PM »
Quote from: alpha1511 on March 31, 2019, 09:35:21 PM
My bike is 2015 Zero S ZF12.5
I noticed the same problem after I charge to 100% today.
The app showed only 88 Amp hour at 100% SoC.

My MBB firmware version is 52.
And I don't know the BMS version, it seems not in the logs?
I would recommend to follow the advice given to me in this thread. So, update the firmware and then ride the bike down to a SOC around 10% and recharge. It helped me.

4
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: Severe battery degradation?
« on: March 31, 2019, 12:08:23 AM »
So, I had my dealer do a firmware update yesterday. Interestingly, immediately after the update the Pack Capacity went back to 104 Ah. The SOC was at 90% at that time. The expected remaining range jumped to 230km (which is far too much).
I then rode the bike down to about 10% SOC. I reached 153km with a remaining expected range of 21km (so altogether about 173km). The pack capacity remained at 104Ah. I am currently charging again to 100% and will then see what happens over the next days.

So far, it looks as the firmware update resolved the issue mostly.

5
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: Severe battery degradation?
« on: March 29, 2019, 01:27:56 PM »
Short update:

So I went to a ride yesterday, trying to drain the battery as much as possible. I started recording the battery voltages in between to be sure that I won't get stranded somewhere:

27% : 101.12V
14% : 99.50V
11% : 98.90V
 4% : 97.77V
 0% : 96.8V (135km)
95.0V (145km)

When SOC showed 0% I had traveled 135km on the full charge. I was able to get another 10km until the bike went into "limb" mode. That was fortunately only about 0.5km away from my home, so it was easily possible to get back.

At home, I charged the bike over night to full SOC. Now the "Zero Voltage app" shows "97 AH" as full capacity. So, this indeed demonstrates that "Pack Capacity" is only calculated. So, no clear indicator of what the health of the battery is.

Its calculated capacity of "97 AH" is, however, still significantly below what to expect of a 2016 13.0 battery, if I read the unofficial manual correctly (which states 100AH for a 2013 model and probably at least 10% more for the 2016er). And additionally, the range estimation is now at 142km, which is pretty close to the 145km I managed to get. This is still very much on the low side, I think. I remember that I typically had 150km at the very least, in most cases between 160 and 220km, depending on the mixture of country vs city riding.

Today I will let my local dealer do a firmware update. Then I will see over the next days, what range I am still able to reach. Now, that the "Pack Capacity" is not really a measured value, I guess it would be difficult to prove battery degradation only on the range.

6
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: Severe battery degradation?
« on: March 27, 2019, 11:28:48 PM »
Quote from: BrianTRice on March 27, 2019, 10:45:21 PM
The firmware adjusts the pack capacity estimation dynamically, and might need recalibration from more rides.

Try riding it more, and try using more of the capacity and then charging to full.
Thanks for the info. So you mean, this could just be a miscalculation of the BMS, maybe due to the long stand time?
Is the only way to verify this by driving it down to zero SOC? (Never done that before. The lowest SOC I ever had was 2%, and that was responsible for lots of sweating on my side.)

7
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: Severe battery degradation?
« on: March 27, 2019, 04:49:05 PM »
Temperature is pretty normal for spring here: between 10 and 18 °C. The bike is also always prewarmed (as it is located in my garage, which is at 18°C).
I never had that in the last three years. And it is the very first time I see this "81 AH" pack capacity.  :(

8
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Severe battery degradation?
« on: March 27, 2019, 03:20:09 PM »
I am facing a loss in battery capacity, which is frightening me.

My Zero SR16 ZF13.0 has not been used in the last 8 months. It was standing at about 80% SOC in my garage. Now I charged it to 100% and went out for a ride. Everything smooth, except the range estimation was rather low: at a mixed riding between 50-80km/h I typically always got at least 150km range, this time the estimate was 100-120km.

I thought that my Zero needs more usage, so I rode and charged it several times over the last days. The range estimation and the range I achieved (e.g. 56km when SOC went down to 52%) were still too low. I then remembered that I had the "Zero Voltage" app, which also shows battery capacity. So, I opened it and it showed at that time (90% SOC) "75/80Ah".

I thought  "80Ah"? That's too low! The battery should have >100Ah. So, I went to a friend of mine, who had been a local dealer but then closed his business. He pulled the logs from the bike and showed me this:

ZERO MBB> bms


****************************************
*               BMS Data               *
****************************************

*************  BMS #0  ***************
  - BMS Board Rev             :  03
  - BMS Firmware Rev          :  40
  - BMS Serial Number         : 2015_bms_48e0f7_02634
  - Battery Serial Number     : 16xxxxxx
  - CAN Rx in last second     :  167 

  - Pack SOC                  :  56%
  - Fuel Gauge                :  54%
  - Age of SOC Data           :  37 ms

  - Model Year                : 2016
  - Pack Capacity             :  81 AH
  - Pack Capacity Remaining   :  43 AH
  - Total Energy Used         : 293 KWH
  - Number Of Bricks          :   4

  - Pack Discharge Current    :   0 A
  - Pack Sum Voltage          :  103.863 V
  - Sag-Adj Pack Sum Voltage  :  103.876 V
  - Bank Voltages             :     1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9   10   11   12   13   14   15   16   17   18   19   20   21   22   23   24   25   26   27   28 
                              :  3705 3708 3707 3708 3710 3709 3710 3710 3709 3709 3709 3710 3708 3709 3708 3710 3709 3710 3708 3711 3710 3711 3709 3710 3710 3710 3711 3708 
  - Lowest Cell Voltage       :  3705 mV ( Cell 1 )
  - Highest Cell Voltage      :  3711 mV ( Cell 20 )
  - Pack Balance              :  5 mV
  - Lowest Cell mV            :  3706 mV
  - Age of Bank Voltage Data  :  81 ms

  - Isolation Resistance      :  32766 KOhms (0x7FFE) 
  - Least Isolated Cell       :  28 
  - Instant Iso Resistance    :  1 KOhms (0x0001)
  - Instant Least Iso Cell    :  28

                              :      0     1     2     3     4     5     6     7 
  - Pack Temps                :    17C   18C   17C   18C   18C   18C   18C   18C 
  - Lowest Present Pack Temp  :  17 C
  - Max Pack Temp This Ride   :  18 C
  - Min Pack Temp This Ride   :  17 C
  - Age of BMS Temp Data      :  79 ms

  - Min Discharge Temp        :  -30 C
  - Max Charge Temp           :  50 C
  - Min Charge Temp           :  0 C
  - Max Charge C-Rate         :  1.0
  - Min Discharge C-Rate      :  7.5
  - Discharge Scale Value     :   255/255

  - Num Charge Cycles         :  64

  - BMS Total Bike Run Time   :  00:01:54
  - BMS Clock                 :  03/27/2019 00:49:08 ( 1553672948, 0x5C9B2AF4 )
  - Age of BMS Time Data      :  192 ms

  - Age of BMS Status Data    :  205 ms
  - Discrete Throttle En      :  Enabled


So, the line "Pack capacity" shows "81 AH". The ex-dealer told me that he normally sees "104 AH" at that place. So, he concluded, he thinks my battery is defect.

Is there anybody who can confirm that? Or has some other explanation?

Thanks for any help!

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