ElectricMotorcycleForum.com

  • September 01, 2026, 04:51:24 PM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Electric Motorcycle Forum is live!

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - kcfoxie

Pages: [1] 2
1
http://mklsportster.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Megacommute.pdf

"Moshe K. Levy put a 2018 Zero SR to the test during his commute of more than 100 miles per day and confirmed two things: The electric Zero is cheaper to operate than a gas-powered bike and the power cell has cooling problems."

Someone finally pointed out the elephant in the room...

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


2
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: Zero SR/F
« on: February 24, 2019, 01:22:21 AM »
Read a good number of comments and agree with a good number of them. Here's my 2-cents no one asked for:

Re: no one beats them in their price range. An Energica Eva is $2k more than an SR with ChargeTank and less than $1k more than an SR with PowerTank. The PowerTank model them becomes $2k more expensive than the Energica to add after market Level 2 (something that should be standard on all EVs) that still does not match the DC charge time on the Energica.

I have had numerous and repeatable issues with the SR battery getting too hot to charge after light touring/prolonged highway use on hot southern summer days. If the new platform still has a sealed battery, they cannot be called a technology leader.

They are late to the traction, cruise, and advanced ABS games. Let's hope they have studied the others and improved or at least matched their abilities.

If commuting and light touring is your game, Energica is already ahead here. I know not everyone has a widespread deployment of CCS, but that's not going to be the case in at most 2-years time. Two coast to coast CCS routes will be in full operation by July 1, or did we all forget about Electrify America? DC is a necessity these days, anything sold without it is already outdated off the lot.

And please baby Zeus let the SR/F have Level 2 standard on it... HD was stupid (or it may be a nickel and dime accessory option) to omit it on LiveWire.

These are my opinions, I'm sure many will disagree.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


3
General Discussion / Re: Electric Motorcycle Owners Map
« on: February 23, 2019, 08:47:46 PM »
Looks like it's an issue with that version of chrome. OS has zilch to do with webapps.

4
Where is your Diginow mounted? All my problems were on *stock* hardware. Modifications shouldn't be necessary, IMO.

My Diginow is mounted in the "tank", but I kept the stock charger in the stock location. I can charge with either one all day long and not overheat the battery, unless (as I said) I'm riding >75mph and fast-charging with the Diginow, in which case it becomes possible to overheat on a hot day.

Quote
Except that there's evidence -- on the ZMOG group -- of people who have. I'm not alone, and I do not appreciate your insinuation that I'd exaggerate.

Glad it works for you. It didn't for me (and I tried twice). I am also 100% confident I can replicate the problem on your bike.

You're free to not appreciate whatever you'd like, but I'll further state that anecdotal evidence is not convincing evidence of a design problem.

I'm 100% confident you CAN'T replicate the problem on my bike with the stock charger. I have 45,000 miles of anecdotal evidence that you can't.
Bring it to NC and leave it with me for a weekend. I promise you I can cause it to refuse to charge after a single 90 mile ride. Did it on a demo, and ours. Great you haven't hit the problem, but it's a problem nonetheless.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


5
General Discussion / Re: Electric Motorcycle Owners Map
« on: January 29, 2019, 12:53:41 AM »
I don't see an add button or link. How do you add yourself to this?

Go to "Additions" and add marker.

I do not see that. Am I blind?


6
What Tesla did was limit the charge available so they could sell (IIRC) a 80kWh battery pack as a 60kWh battery pack. It was cheaper for Tesla to build only one battery pack than have another assembly line for the smaller one. Even Tesla now admits it was a bad idea.

It was the 40kWh pack, they never made one "due to demand."

Quote
Why would they want to limit our battery capacity to 80% of "true" capacity, anyhow?

Because people expect cars to last 8-15 years before needing major services (rebuild trans/engine, etc). This is how the Volt's got the longing running "no loss in range" award, they put a larger than advertised battery in the vehicle and limited the amount of user available capacity so that a the vehicle and battery aged the drivability expectation is met. BMW clearly stated only 18.8kWh of their 24.0kWh battery was usable, for the same reason: battery longevity.

I'd personally only buy cars that work like the Volt/BMW than Tesla.

7

I can't speak to anybody else's experience, but that is NOT how my bike behaves. I can ride (and have ridden) all day, ~70 mph on the freeway, charging at ~6kW with my DigiNow, with no signs of overheating. If I try to bump my cruising speed into the 75-80 mph range, overheating becomes a possibility, but the range reduction isn't worth the higher cruising speed anyhow. When charging with the on-board (~.2kW) charger, a Zero should be cooling down pretty fast. That's just not enough charging current to cause a battery to heat up.

Where is your Diginow mounted? All my problems were on *stock* hardware. Modifications shouldn't be necessary, IMO.

Quote
From what I've read here, my experience is far more typical for us Zero owners than yours has been. Several of us DO light touring with our Zeros, and the overheating issues are very manageable. Perhaps there was something wrong with your bike, or perhaps you're exaggerating your experience, but I think very few Zero owners are going to experience what you've described.

Except that there's evidence -- on the ZMOG group -- of people who have. I'm not alone, and I do not appreciate your insinuation that I'd exaggerate.

Glad it works for you. It didn't for me (and I tried twice). I am also 100% confident I can replicate the problem on your bike.

8
New York's climate isn't really any different than Pennsylvania's so I'm wonder just how FAST these guys are going on the highway.  In the 19,000 (combined) miles I've put on my two Zeros I have never ONCE had an overheating problem.  As I stated earlier, my commute is 34 miles round trip, and it is nearly all highway.  However, when I'm on the highway, I am in "ECO" mode and just hold the throttle wide open.  That's like a poor man's "cruise control" in that it holds me at a steady 70 mph.  I've ridden in the hottest days of summer (high nineties with a digustingly high humidity since I live on an island) and never noticed any power reduction due to heat.  I wonder if that's the trick?  I know almost everyone here seems to avoid "ECO" mode.  Once I'm off the highway I switch back to "Custom."  My settings are full power/full regen and that seems to work best in our local traffic.  I find "Sport" pretty useless.

I used that eco mode trick a few times when I get low on power (under 25%). But I don't think hypermiling is a reasonable solution, especially when some road I have to take are 70mph and people run 85+ on them. Speaking of cruise, allegedly a spring firmware update will give my Eva cruise control. That'll come in handy this summer.

9
However it was reliable enough for me to find the inherent flaw in the Zero design: lack of battery cooling of any sort. I couldn't go more than 120-150 miles in a given day before it would stop recharging (I live in the southern US, 108F days are not unheard of, hell it's 65F right now and we aren't even out of January) once we got past spring. The final straw was when it overheated while charging after a total of 90-miles ridden on an 80F overcast day.

Would you mind elaborating on this?  I don't fully understand the issue here.

With a 90% payload on a 80F+ day, the most I could travel on the bike was roughly 150mi before it would overheat and refuse to charge. A normal weekend is between 300-500 miles for me during riding season (March-October), on top of any commuting needs. I put 6500 miles on this bike in about 5 months, to give you an idea for my use case (and expectations). There are a few memorable times where it failed to charge: the first one was when I wanted to go check out new ChargePoint stations (installed under the Duke Energy Coal Ashe Remediation Fund) in I think it was Hamlet, NC (I'd need to check the map). I made it to Sanford on a single charge (was very low - 10% or so), and the battery was already at 113F when I parked and plugged in. Nearly all charging infrastructure, especially in small towns, is outside in direct sunlight. Black battery, lucite-encased primatic pouches, no heat fins, and a bottom-mounted EVSE that's used even when the Level 2 (which does have a fan) is active = reached 118F around 90%.  I had to make the call, do I make the next leg and possibly get stuck in this place for 8+ hours (cool down and recharge time), or do I call off this trip and head to Durham to charge at my friends house and go for a swim. Opted for Durham, and it stopped charging within 4 hours of being plugged in. I had enough juice to get it home via backroads. It was well over 100F on this trip, the whole day.

The final straw was an overcast Sunday where the high was 81F. The bike had ~88% SOC when I headed out at 8am for a 30-mile joyride. I never exceeded 55mph. I rode to the brunch spot and plugged it into a 120v outlet and it charged for ~1.5 hour. Ride it another 40-ish miles, all but 7 are highway 70+, and plugged it in at my friends house. It stopped charging due to battery reaching 122F within a few hours (but I was above 50% so I could take the highway home). I traded it the following Wednesday, and didn't look back.

Let's contrast to the Energica. I rode it over 250 miles the Saturday morning after I got it (nearly a week to the day I said I'm done with Zero), 50-60 miles between DC Charges with a total of 4 back to back charges (the longest lasting 32min). Battery temp would go yellow (warm) after the charge and returned to green (normal/cool) within the 45min-1hr ride between stations. I did this in a little under 6 hours with charging. The longest trip I took on the Zero was 213 miles (one-way) to Myrtle Beach and it took me about 13 hours to get there on the 2017 SR.

I bought the bike with 150mi, it had 300mi on it less than 48 hours later, and crossed 1000 miles before I'd had it a week. I have plans to put ~7000 miles on the energica this summer just in trips to visit Electrify America stations around the southern US (VA, NC, TN, SC, GA, AL).

10
However it was reliable enough for me to find the inherent flaw in the Zero design: lack of battery cooling of any sort. I couldn't go more than 120-150 miles in a given day before it would stop recharging (I live in the southern US, 108F days are not unheard of, hell it's 65F right now and we aren't even out of January) once we got past spring. The final straw was when it overheated while charging after a total of 90-miles ridden on an 80F overcast day.

I live in San Diego east county, and it's 73 here today. We often see 100+ during the summer, and I ride nearly every day, including several trips where I've fast-charged with my DigiNow several times in a day. The only overheating problem I've seen is due to my non-IPM motor (I have a 2014 SR with 45,000 miles on it), which can't take more than a couple of full-throttle stop-light races in hot weather.

Look, clearly you've had problems with your bikes, and of course that's going to leave a bad taste in anyone's mouth. But come on....overheating under normal circumstances on an 80F day? I'm skeptical at best. Again, I respect that you've had problems with your bikes, and it's more than fair to report those. But I think your'e dumping more on them than they deserve. Their heat-management problems aren't THAT severe.

Spend some time on the FB group and you'd be surprised how often this IS a problem that the battery stops charging due to reaching 122F. Moshe K Levy got a 2018 for a review with Motorcycle Consumer News, lives in PA, and he couldn't commute with it (45mi all highway one way). He posted for weeks about it and asking for ways to prevent it from getting so hot on the ride in that it would charge on Level 1. I told him he'd probably be best to use his Volt's Level 1 into the ChargeTank as that at least activates the ChargeTank fan and that's better than nothing. The Level 1 being below the battery is simply a bad design decision, there really isn't room for discussion about it IMO.

11
Between the lack of customer service and the lack of functionality in our climate, I cannot recommend one to anyone. Not unless you strictly intend to commute with it, and your commute doesn't involve highways nor exceeds 25 miles round trip (making it effectively useless as a commuter here).
I'm guessing that your thermal management issues had to do with fast charging after highway runs. That's something I've never had a need to do, but may well be a limitation of the bike.

Yes, and I'll go one further. The bike was always near payload capacity when ridden. If you're 150lb or less, you'll still run into overheating/no charging situations (Ben Rich has posted photos of icing his down to charge). I charged with the ChatgeTank only, and 2.5 hours is hardly a fast charge, as we have seen by DigiNow on the Zero. I was using it fully within factory specs and it couldn't live up to light touring needs (300-400mi/day trips).

On a related note. The race engineering behind the Energica is one of the reasons I bought one. It's perfosmce oriented, but I'm not that spirited of a rider. It's an ok touring bike, the expansion of electrify America will determine that. Right now it looks like I can get down to Savannah GA with only 2 L2 stops. One DC in the right corridor and it could be straight up fast charging stops.

12
We had a 2015 and 2017. The 2015 went away after a legal battle with the company, and they delayed and delayed until I started tweeting and tagging them about the ongoing failures we had with it (8% battery to 0% batter in 250ft, as an example). Somewhere around the 5th or 6th tweet, they agreed to make things right. Enter the 2017. It was fine from the standpoint of it didn't behave like the 2015. However it was reliable enough for me to find the inherent flaw in the Zero design: lack of battery cooling of any sort. I couldn't go more than 120-150 miles in a given day before it would stop recharging (I live in the southern US, 108F days are not unheard of, hell it's 65F right now and we aren't even out of January) once we got past spring. The final straw was when it overheated while charging after a total of 90-miles ridden on an 80F overcast day. I've had no such issues with my Energica. Between the lack of customer service and the lack of functionality in our climate, I cannot recommend one to anyone. Not unless you strictly intend to commute with it, and your commute doesn't involve highways nor exceeds 25 miles round trip (making it effectively useless as a commuter here).

13
Zero’s customer communications are poor, and the strategy of paying to swap whole subsystems does not scale nor does it help them arrive at a scaleable strategy.

Understatement of the year, IMO. I don't care if Zero adds active thermal management and CCS, I'd never consider another one due to the extremely horrible customer service. Energica has been the exact opposite in ownership experience -- the product works (PM me about my two SR's...), and the company gets back to my dealer rep within a day with answers. We've seen so many Zero dealers drop out in my state because they take forever to pay for warranty work.

14
General Discussion / Re: EV Driving - Illustrating the Difference.
« on: January 25, 2019, 12:39:28 AM »
The few times per year I have to ride in an ICE vehicle, I get scared with the "free fall" coasting that they do (less so if it's a manual, but that's really rare thee days). It really stresses me out.

15
General Discussion / Re: Seriously, WTF is wrong with people??
« on: January 25, 2019, 12:35:49 AM »
You're the "good guy" saving the planet with your ev and they're a "bad person" because they have their truck.

This environmental narrative has to die in order for the movement to take hold. We need to take a "it makes you resilient and able to stand alone" route, up and down the board. They're cheaper (long term, anyone whose dropped $1k at 80-100k miles on a timing belt or $5k for a used engine because it snapped is an easy sale), faster (bring it, Suzuki squid), and better in driving dynamics. Of all the things I talk about when discussing my fleet of 4 EVs (2 person household), air pollution is never mentioned because it turns most people off (and I'm tired of explaining how lithium desalination is less harmful than strip mining cat litter or copper).

I'm not buying gas, I don't deal with oil changes or a clutch (in case of the moto), and the solar array on the roof sticks the finger to the electric company. NO motorized vehicle is actually good for the environment. Nothing in our modern life is, really (at least in the US).

Pages: [1] 2