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Messages - rick

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1
It seems like it may be a wider ranging issue at Zero since I was relayed that statement by Inside Sales from Customer Service. It's not like it's a new law or anything, it was enacted way back in 1975. Not to mention California's Song-Beverly Consumer
Warranty Act
passed in 1970.

Pretty scary when you contact a vehicle manufacturer about scheduled maintenance and they immediately start making "incorrect" statements on warranty coverage.

Still, thanks for responding Aaron!
I's there any possibility of getting that service performed somewhere within reasonable driving distance or at home? 4-1/2 to 9 hours of hauling the bike to the nearest dealer every few months is probably a deal breaker for me.

2
Yeah, could be!
...So, Zero has not responded to my reply commenting that their, "all service must be done at a Zero dealer to maintain warranty" statement seems to be illegal based on Google searches and that I'd be very curious to hear their thoughts about all this.
I imagine their continuing silence as a big, "Oops!"  :-[

3
I completely agree that the maintenance needs to be done correctly and that this particular maintenance item may be too difficult for your average owner. On the other hand, reports on this forum from people watching the dealer perform this service say it only takes a couple of minutes and suggest that at least some dealers are just following written directions and may not have any deep understanding of what they're doing. So, it could also be really easy too.  ...It could go either way really. It does make the 2015's seem more valuable just to avoid this though.

I was more surprised by that blanket statement requiring all maintenance to be performed by a dealer to maintain warranty coverage.

4
Nice!
The, "all service must be done at a Zero dealer to maintain warranty on the motorcycle" statement was not written in the Owner's Manual - only in the email sent to me by Zero. The only thing I noticed in the Owner's Manual was that, "use only Zero approved parts" which seemed to follow along with the tie-in requirement Zero mentioned in the email.

Quote
Hi Rick,
Thank you for contacting us with your interest in Zero Motorcycles.

I checked in with customer service and said that yes, all service must be done at a Zero dealer to maintain warranty on the motorcycle. It's important to get the latest software updates as well.  The battery life is performing even better than we have expected.  This is very important to the rider when your running very low on charge and the bike does not cut off unexpectedly before the display shows 0%.

Best regards,

[Name Withheld]
Zero Motorcycles, Inc.
Inside Sales
[Phone Withheld]
[Email Withheld]

I'm not sure if it's against forum rules to post the email and/or simply tacky with regards to calling out the specific Zero employee who wrote that statement.

5
I emailed Zero asking about the new "Drive Motor Commissioning and Timing" maintenance requirement every 8,000 miles of 12 months for 2016 models.

I'm looking to possibly pull the trigger on a ZF13+Power Tank this year for my 80 mile commute. I'd prefer to do as much maintenance as possible at home due to the frequency my commute will require it to be performed and because my nearest Zero dealers is a good 4-1/2 hour round trip drive. If they can't do that while I wait then it's 9 hours of driving.

I was hoping they'd say that it would be okay to do it yearly or point to a class our instructions on how to perform it. Ideally with a Sevcon Hand Held Calibrator which is much cheaper to rent or buy than the full software.

Interestingly they told me that, "all service must be done at a Zero dealer to maintain warranty on the motorcycle."

The very first hit for that exact search phrase on Google says that tie-in sales provisions like that are illegal under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Another website explained it like this:

Quote
"Tie-In Sales" Provisions

Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. The following are examples of prohibited tie-in sales provisions.

In order to keep your new Plenum Brand Vacuum Cleaner warranty in effect, you must use genuine Plenum Brand Filter Bags. Failure to have scheduled maintenance performed, at your expense, by the Great American Maintenance Company, Inc., voids this warranty.

The 2016 Zero Owner's Manual seems to continue with that tie-in requirement, stating that the owner must, "use only Zero approved parts and Zero accessories" as well.

I read somewhere that all that would be okay if you Zero covered all the costs of all standard maintenance during the warranty period but, they  specifically exclude that on their warranty:

Quote
In addition, this Limited Warranty does not cover:
The cost of parts and labor involved in any routine care and maintenance [...]

So, (a) this makes me sad and (b) any thoughts about all this?

6
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: Unofficial Zero Owners Manual
« on: July 22, 2016, 11:33:17 PM »
Just to put it out there, I'd pay for good instructions on how to perform the "Drive Motor commissioning and timing" service every 8,000 miles or 12 months now required on all 2016 models using the Sevcon Handheld Calibrator (P/N 662/14050).

Those seem to run about $450 to buy or $50/week to rent at thunderstruck-ev.com (Sevcon P/N 662/14050). Looks like you'd still need to build/buy a harness and the instruction manual doesn't clarify the calibration process for me on a first pass. It's significantly cheaper than the $900 software package and probably easier to use.

7
We've got a thread going in the 2013+ category about scheduled maintenance. The 2016 models have a requirement for "Drive Motor commissioning and timing" every 8,000 miles or 12 months.

Is that just setting the offset as described in Burton's with the DVT software?

If so, the DVT software is painfully pricey at $900 but, you can buy a hand held calibrator from thunderstruck-ev.com for $450 or rent it for $50/week. That brings this a little more in the range of a do-it-yourselfer. The manual is not particularly helpful to me in terms of understanding the process but, I'd very much like to be able to do this at home.

The controller manual mentions a password in the DVT/Calibration section too. Where do you get that?

8
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: Service intervals
« on: June 10, 2016, 03:34:19 AM »
Saw this thread on commissioning a new motor and controller that links to the video below where Burton is using the DVT software to set the "angle of offset"



Is that the Drive Motor commissioning and timing" every 8,000 miles or 12 months that I've been curious about? Seems easy enough ...although the software is twice as expensive as the hand held unit.

9
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: Service intervals
« on: June 03, 2016, 10:23:29 PM »
The nearest dealer is a couple of hours away and, as my commuter, I'd prefer to do all the service at home and on my schedule. So, this is very much something I'd like to be able to do.

I'm out of my element here but, the first google hit turns up this PDF that covers some basics on Devcon's DVT software (for Windows) on Gen 4 controllers. There's also this $900 kit for the hardware and software.

Devcon shows a handheld calibrator on for their Gen 4 controllers on the spec sheets. Those seem to run about $450 to buy or $50/week to rent at thunderstruck-ev.com (Sevcon P/N 662/14050). Looks like you'd still need to build/buy a harness and the instruction manual doesn't clarify the calibration process for me on a first pass.

10
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: Service intervals
« on: June 03, 2016, 04:16:34 AM »
It's new in the Maintenance Schedule for all 2016 models. This was not required for any 2013 - 2015 models. The 2012 X, XU and MX models had a requirement to blow out the motor brushes with compressed air at the same interval. That was as far back as I checked.

11
Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ / Re: Service intervals
« on: June 03, 2016, 02:35:27 AM »
I'm just researching a Zero as a next commuter candidate (~20,000 miles / year) and the maintenance schedule from the Owners Manual is all pretty basic except for the very last item,  "Drive Motor commissioning and timing" every 8,000 miles or 12 months.

What is that?

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