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Several issues & dysfunctions. The smallest one were fixed after some weeks. After some time the bike was very difficult to start, and stopped without notice.

The problem is probably partly the dealer, and partly inside zero. The core issue is that there are quality issues (some well know here - the glitch, the click sound, the wetness preventing the battery from working correctly, the recalls,...), and for some unfortunate users, probably with 10 % probably or maybe lower, with multiple known issues and some less known you end up months without a bike, nobody telling you what's happening and when in will stop, and nobody caring. For me brand management is ensuring customers are happy, whatever the issues, and making sure no customer is trapped in the 4th dimension - in the cases I mentioned no bike, no info for months. Hence the efforts to make these cases known, fixed and process adapted so that future customer avoid this. And minimizing the issues - they are all genuine, and probably only a small share of the total - or trying to discredit the messenger is not the right way to handle this ! Also, the fact that the newer model seem better is no reason to ignore early adopters who suffered issues, significant value loss & early adopters risks !

Totally agree that courts should never be a preferred option when a good faith dialog exists (ie : someone listens to you, gives you a clear view of the process/delay, and makes his best efforts to find an acceptable solution to the issue, all this in a reasonable delay). But after long discussions with dealer and zero - which is what was done in all the cases I mentioned - and no news or solution for months, what can you do ? Of course it will cost a bit in the short term, but in the end the one that loses the case will pay - and here there is no doubt who will. It is just a matter of time - but if your case is correctly built, and if you can prove - which is the case here - that nothing was done to try to fix the case, then you can get money for the time lost.

Noiseboy : the goal is to have these unacceptable issues solved quickly, by any possible means :
  - Level 1 is talking to dealers - we did this, no results.
  - Level 2 is sending messages to Zero - same, no results. Level 3 is seeking external help - consumer association, govt homologation authorities, specialized press so that they have the full information (ongoing) and now about critical issues. Fortunately some of the clients concerned have very good connections
  - Level 4 is court (probably the easiest & more direct way).

But totally agree that levels 1+2 should have solved the case, and Zero should be aware that for an innovative bike with a very reduced service network, they should never let customer alone with their issues for months. Which is exactly what they do for now ! Serving customer is not about helping on minor issues and ignoring unlucky customer with complex cases (which happen on a marker with no service network, no secondhand market).

Agree !

My purpose is not trying to figure if zero is better or worst, but to help fellows having their cases solved !

My feeling, though, is that since it is a new market (meaning - new risks, no second hand market, few shops able to service), they should pay more attention to this so that new buyer can be sure that if it goes bad, they're not left alone. Unfortunately, it is not the case today !

 I had issues with ICE bikes, but I had much more available options (finding parts, selling the bike, finding a new dealer...)

Mehve,

All the users concerned by the cases I mentioned spent times and times talking to their dealers. Unfortunately, dealers have no possibility to fix boards, batteries or even do simple fixes on the bike. And Zero look very inflexible/rigid in the way they allow them to provide solutions that really work. In at least two cases, it is the dealers themselves, worried that Zero did not react, that suggested lawsuits so that Zero-level defects (which often imply replacement of the bike or significant parts of it) are fixed.

You mentioned Apple : they understood that if you build something that can be serviced, then you need a "few questions asked replacement policy". I'm happy that your zero is not one that does not work or that randomly stops while in the traffic (XU model had LOTS of serious issues). But many did, and the fact that they are not treated well is an issue everybody should be concerned with - you'll never have a second hand market for these bikes if major issues means that you have to throw the bike... Also, it seems that people living close to the factory are much better treated than others : probably Zero should pay extra attention to remote clients... Or stop selling abroad !

And yes, Richard's propositions seem fair to improve Zero's service in the long term. But my concern is more helping the poor quys now stuck with broken bikes, no solution for months and 10-20.000 less on their account. Nothing can explain this situation ! You're right we should not be talking about lawsuits. But unfortunately it seems that there is no way to go from talks to real world solutions...

V

 

As of today, here is a first list of users with serious & unsolved cases. Please add yours if any !
If a US lawyer ready to work for a % of torts reads this forum, you're welcomed !

**Jacob

Hello I am a 2011 DS zero owner in Vancouver Canada.

I received a recall notice that said the parts would be in the dealer by mid August.

I am still waiting...

My impression is that it is an incompetent zoo in their parts dept. have several bad experiences with Zero parts.

**Trevor

My 2011 Zero XU worked great for a year (bought new in Sept 2012), almost 4,000 mile commuting to work. Then it started intermittently shutting down (presumably throttle disable due to error). It happened mostly on startup but a couple times while riding.

Here's where it gets pathetic. The bike was still under warranty and I took it back to the dealer. They seemed to have no electronic diagnostic ability whatsoever, at least for this model. It took over a week for them to see the error occur and when it happened they were unprepared to diagnose the problem, so they had to send to Zero for instructions. They could not (or would not put in the effort) to reproduce the problem. So my bike sat in their shop for over a month. Finally after some tense conversations with them they managed to reproduce the error and now apparently had learned from Zero that the motor controller had to be replaced. Then they said it would take a week to get the part from Zero. The dealer complained that Zero was difficult to work with - slow to respond to help requests and slow to deliver parts.

So, over a month in the shop with no offer of a loaner bike or rental car. Both the dealer and Zero are to blame here, but mostly Zero for not paying as much attention to service, and their reputation, as they should.

I don't think Zero knows how badly they've screwed up. Literally dozens of people who thought my bike was really cool have noticed I'm not riding it. Way to go Zero.

My advice to Zero: Don't call yourself Zero unless you intend to be excellent. Your brand can very quickly become a joke.

 
**Tim
"I just got an update as well on 2012 DS(2700 miles)due to the "glitch." It was perfect for about a week and then got progressively worse over this second week. Possibly correlated to ambient temp. 1. this week has been warming up. 2. bike has sat in the sun after the worst problem I've had. That worst problem being starting off for my ride home at the end of the day. It will move backwards or hardly move when i roll the throttle. I have recently noticed I can "break through" if i manually roll the bike forward and roll the throttle somewhat hard. Seems a little dangerous. Im not sure if i could have done that before the update. As of now the only difference is i dont have to restart with the key when it cuts off."

10/13/2013
" I am not giving up on Zero. Despite my dealership that is playing catch-up, they and especially the eastern zero tech have been responsive. I am still riding and just dealing with it until I hear back about the next course of action. Trying to be patient and trusting.

Some other notes of interest:

My zero was a demo so may have been a somewhat earlier build (Edit: #123, I assume it is consecutive out of the factory?)

the update, done sometime in early September, did negate the need to restart with the key while moving. It does seem that it will cut off at higher speeds now"

** Bryan
I currently have my Zero S in the shop and I have been having lackluster service.  The problem is I am losing throttle while going down the road, not very fun, and from what I have read a lot of other people have this same issue.  First the technician told me that it is probably the contactor because that was the error code I was getting.  He told me to open the battery pack myself, not something our owner’s manual suggests to do.  He retracted that statement two days later and told me to take it to my local dealer.  After one week of having it at the dealer thaey said they could not get the bike to produce the same problem.  The dealer said that the ZERO rep told them if they were to change anything it would be the controller.  I was not too happy with that because it is a 800 dollar part and I am out of warranty.  They said there was nothing else they could do.

 
 I called Zero directly and asked if they had any history on the problem I am having and a new guy told me that it is more than likely the MBB.  I told this to the dealer and now they are trying to get a hold of the same guy at Zero I talked to so everyone is on the same page, but I still have not heard back.

 
 It has now been two and a half weeks since I took the bike to the dealership, and 4 weeks since I started dealing with Zero on this problem.

** Vincent

Hi !

I really love Zero bikes, but I had a very unpleasant experience with the XU 2012 I bought. A few months afetr purchase, the "glitch" appeared to the point that the bike began stopping while driving in the traffic. Then I gave it back to the dealership. They kindly offered me a replacement with a 2013 XU (after 3+ months) and both dealer & importer were very nice, but since I need a bike that can be driven with a 125 cc licence (i wanted to give the XU to my mother, and the Learning school refused her, so she needs a bike you can drive with a 125cc permit), which is not the case of the 2013 XU, i'm still waiting for a solution. In the meantime I bought a 2013 S, which look to have a new bug when turning the key on - for which i'm still waiting for a solution from my dealer.

I'm ok to have issues with a new bike, but considered the price I paid (20 k$) i'd really expect quick & reassuring solutions : now i'v put 32.000 $ in two zero bikes and one is broken and no mire in my possession since 6 months, and the other has a new bug for which no excuse or solution has been proposed so far ! And when you see how depressed is the second hand market (basically, second hand price is zero because nobody buys a used Zero), I think Zero's plan should allocate more resources to fix issues and ensure first clients keep the "e-rider" smile on their face !

Hi everybody !

We love zero bikes, but we have been quite disappointed by the way they sometimes handle issues happening on new bikes. In order to ensure a quick resolution of our problems, and help Zero allocate the appropriate level of attention to customer service that will make them even more succesful, we decided to unite in order to find collective ways to be heard by Zero.

If you encoutered an issue, and did have to way too long to get it solved, or did not have any satisfactory solution so far, please contact us : zero-collective-action@onews.eu
Best regards,

ZL