ElectricMotorcycleForum.com

Hey i did the same thing on Packtracker !
now I number batteries most neg is number 1
I had also numbered most pos as number 1
to hook up first one i had to finally clean numbers off and renumber
i would get mixed up in middle of pack
man too bad to smoke got out of your monitor
does one unit monitor all 24 cells?

hope ypu took some time off for christmas and had a nice one
this is kinda long
i put > for my reply, lots to keep track of for my peabrain

I’d put Alltrax  max output settings   back to 85% take it easy until pack is balanced.
> thank you I won’t worry so much
>Alltrax low voltage cutoff to 60 volt - mismatched for a 24 cell pack needs to be 64.8 to 67.2 >volt, 2.7, 2.8 per >cell
>Never want any cell to go below 2.7 volt no reason at all to hit 2.5 per cell except a bad >reason.


Tonight I opened the bike up full throttle on a steep part of the hill I live on.  It still seemed a bit sluggish, but was operating
 >from a base of around 79-80 volts, /24 =3.31 v good
 so even with open throttle up the steep hill for 2 or 3 minutes, it never managed to
> sag to less than 65 volts /24 = 2.708 cell volt average good –
> whereas with the 22 batteries I was sagging below 55 volts/22=2.5 cell volt average-
>danger warning Will Robinson
 coming up a portion of the hill that is not as steep.


When I come back down the hill I wind up doing some fairly heavy braking so it is common for the bike to stink a bit when I get it back in the garage.  Tonight I actually saw smoke rising in the air in front of the headlight as I pushed the bike into the garage, as well as the stink.  This is pretty worrisome seeing as how I just dis-assembled and re-assembled the bike and there are plenty enough gaps in my knowledge to have done something stupid to cause the bike to burn itself out somehow.  But until tomorrow and further testing I will be optimistic and point out that the smoke shown by the headlight was coming up from a place where only the front wheel had been -- the motor and batteries never got that far into the garage...

>Does the stink smell like epoxy, when you mix it?
>That’s what lions smell like when vent
>Smoke from headlight , on high beam is there some silver reflective material below the bulb >on the bezel?
>It needs to be there or will melt the plastic
>The brakes should never smoke or smell, something wrong.

The good news is that the smoke and stink were almost surely from the brakes.  A longer harder ride today produced no smoke or stink.

The bad news is that I am still reaching low voltage cutoff too soon.  My latest thought is that while only 2 of the batteries were killed, a lot more of them were damaged in a lesser way that causes them to sag in voltage under heavy loads (like going up hill).  Over the last couple of weeks, trying to balance them, and getting used to some of their individual quirks, I can see a pattern in the way the 2 new batteries and the 1 spare (un-abused) battery perform compared to the others: when the batteries are all being charged together, the 3 new ones are much slower to reach the higher voltage levels.  At the same time, when those batteries are drained, they are much slower to leave their operating voltage levels.

>cycle the new batteries by themselves several times until they start acting like the rest of >the pack
> and cells charge discharge too fast or slow
>then add to pack.
>Yes you are seeing the rhythm in the charge/discharge takes a few cycles to get rhythm >you’re learning!
>The hard way but are learning.
>You can put on a bench and wire in Parrell, copper plumber tape works well
> run it up run it down , can charge/discharge individual cells as needed till all work the same.
> I will try that toaster idea I like it

I got hit with LVC about 17 miles into a charge cycle, the last half mile up to my house.  It was kind of ironic that after I stopped, the batteries quickly floated back up to a total of 79.8 volts, just a few tenths of a volt less than where they started.  These things could still go a good 60 miles on flat ground, I think, but their hill-climbing glory days appear to have ended...



Going back over the cycle analysat stats, I noticed that before I abused the batteries, my typical voltage sag on a commute day (18 miles) was around 10volts.  However, since the abuse, the voltage sag on that commute has been in the 13 and 19 (last night it was 19) volt range.  Does that mean that one or more batteries in my pack is/are still bad, though they aren't completely dead yet?

> could be bad or off balance

What does it mean if one of your lifepo batteries is at 3.22 volts at the end of a cycle while the next lowest battery after that is at 3.30? 

>Checked right after discharge cycle? Or after an hour rest?
>After rest Thundersky manual says .1v difference balanced
>1v lower than the others is abnormal

What if the battery in question is bloated with gas and is stinky as hell from leaking battery paste all over the place?
>BAD smells like epoxy? I have seen them vent and smell but haven’t seen paste coming out.
>I’ve seen a pack that was hot for over a day, smelled , but no paste coming out
>swelled?
> are the cells next to swelled ones, pushed in, like curved matching the swell out one next to >it?
> I’ve seen that happen, check those. need discharged to 2.8v clamped to push back in >shape, charge/discharge but >only go  3.8v, 2.8v several times.


I mean, I know that can't be a good thing, but can it make the other 23 batteries seem like they are actually less than 23 (like they are 21 batteries, let's say)?
> yes say it drops fast to1.2v or 0v or reverses -2volt
>23cell at 3v=69v + 1 cell at 1v=70volt

 Can that one bad seed battery reduce your top speed from 59 mph to 53 mph?  Can it make your voltage sag double when going up long steep hills?  Or will it take more than that one culprit to cause somuch trouble?

> yes will drag down the other cells as they have to work harder to keep up with demand

Right now I've alreayd ordered a replacement battery for this one -- I certainly hope I'm not jumping the gun, replacing a battery that doesn't reallyneed it.  And to a lesser extent, I hope that I am not missing some other battery or other batteries that need replacing just as much....


While I wait for a replacement 60 AH Thundersky, I want to prove the fat stinky leaky battery is bad by discharging it down to 2.5 volts by itself (so it can't suck any juice from its neighbor batteries)

>Just go to 2.8v charge to 3.8 cycle several times watch if getting better you mentioned you >are getting the rhythm of cycling you’ll  be able to tell if improving. Work it until it holds what >the other cells hold at rest after charging
>Rest after charge reading is at least 2 hours after charge.
> but is stinky leaking not much chance good

>Hey I like your cycle analyst stats
>I added my charge chart, what I use cycling a pack to write down numbers. Have some cute >graphs
> just delete cell numbers I have in. I print out use in shop
> I may have problem posting if so see if site has email to you I haven’t used this site that >much
> I can’t stand looking at the hacked up battery box, I’ll make you a new one if you want, if >you pay shipping $13 or less I think. I have dimensions, on the first ones I punched square >holes for cell removal, will put those in. No charge for the box.
> I am sure EMS would want you to have a new box.

I've gotta be missing something simple.  It's got to be something really basic.  But that only makes it that more annoying...

I am using a 48v Sevcon PMAC controller and a Mars brushless motor. I also have an Albright Sw-180 contactor with a 24v coil voltage and fitted with blowout magnets.  I've tried all combinations of battery voltages from 24-48v. 
 I have a Magura 5k-0 twist grip throttle mounted, using only the brown and blue wires [/b]at pin 11 as per the drawing here: http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/pdf-downloads/millipak_pmac_wiring.pdf and  have also tried pin 10 as per the Sevcon user manual here: http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/pdf-downloads/Millipak_PMAC_User_Manual_April_2006.pdf )  The black one is apparently not used.  I have the entire thing wired up... I engage the power and throw the FS1 switch at pin 4...

2 flash error.  The manual seems to indicate that being an "illegal start condition.  I've tried everything. I've tried 0-5k pin 10.  I've tried 5k-0 pin 11.  I've tried every different combination therein.   ALWAYS 2 FLASHES. I can't get this damned motor to spin if my life depended on it. 

I've read the manual twice, looking for even the smallest little detail that could lead to my error.  Nothing.  I haven't changed any settings, so everything should run at default.  Still nothing.

I've thought about abandoning my project, having a month and a half of constant tinkering down the drain.  The lot of parts even made it's way to eBay for a day before I convinced myself to have another good crack at it.

I've followed the wiring diagram to the letter with the exception of just one thing and I don't think that it should matter.  I've made FS1 and FWD the same switch and I am not even using REV at all.

My wiring is here:  http://personal.psu.edu/cer143/EV/sevconwiring2.JPG

I noted my changes on the right hand side of the drawing.

What am I missing?  Can anybody offer any guesses?  Do I need to buy the damned 250 dollar programmer just to get this to spin?

Just a couple overlooked items
 Pin 5 seat switch to B- , strait to B- not connected to throttle
pin 5 has to be grounded to B-, for controller to turn on
Maguri throttle wires
 brown-BLACK 0-5k -- brown to pin 10 -- black to B-
blue- BLACK 5-0k  -- Blue to pin11 -- black to B-
(blue - brown incorrect)
read Maguri throttle with OHM meter
make sure brown - black reads 0-5k Ohms
              blue-black reads 5-0k Ohms
make sure Maguri throttle is good, i have seen some don't work
won't read exactly 0-5 maybe .2 to 5.4 or .3 to 4.7  or reverse for blue - black wires
before start Foward, FS1 off, key off
start sequence
to start - key on
controller  verifies seat switch to B- you are sitting on seat,
vehicle can not take off without driver
controller comes on (no blinks on LED we hope) solid on
few seconds contactor engages
wait 3 seconds
turn on Forward, FS1
default should be, can switch both at same time
hope  i was able to help
I havn't worked on millipaks but have set up wired several  Sevcon Powerpaks