ElectricMotorcycleForum.com

A but about the console commands: dobackgroundbal, and dobal, and stopbal:

Dobackgroundbal forces the pack to balance all cells.  It gives a minuscule report on terminal, without all of the detail that “dobal” does.

This allows you to still use the console port for other things while it’s balancing.

To stop, type “stopbal”

The Dobal command completely takes over you terminal, and any key will stop balancing.

I used a raspberrypi 4 to connect to the com port, with Remote Desktop setup, so I can remote in via another computer.

G

Well I’ve  learned a lot.

Simply doing dobal command is not sufficient.  As all the other cells are discharging, the BMS is also using cell 14 up.  So it’s like racing to the bottom.

The only way to actually make gains on the balance is to plug the battery in and continue topping up the battery, to charge up whatever was used on cell 14. 

I am finally able to spend time with the bike daily, and have gotten the cell balance from 305mv, now down to about 265 mv.  This happened over the course of a week or so.


When riding the bike with 300mv imbalance the bike will go into limp mode where I can’t go over 20-25 mph or so.  Hopefully this behavior stops once cell balance is closer to balanced.

The need for a programmable charger is important because as the cell balance gets closer to 0, the total voltage is decreasing on the other cells.

This is a lot, I should have charged the individual cell 14 when I had the monolith open.

Other people may not have let the bike sit for 3 years without charging, this is what the previous owner did.

G

Login: get my battery to work please I don’t want a lemon

oh.  I read this now and see it.

It looks like i am 2 volts shy of 116 V.  So i need to reprogram my elcon.

OK.  I will make a cable.  There are only so many combinations of 3 cables to a audio plug.   I prefer this method over anything else, i don't want to go probing into the bms cables.

ok will try.  thank you!

Gasoline

Quote from: DonTom on January 08, 2023, 01:23:03 AM

My Elcons do not use the CANBUS. I see no real advantage to it. I like mine to shut off at 95%. By the time I put the Elcons away, I am close to 100% SOC anyway from the OBC taking over. And even with the Elcons with CANBUS, the Elcon will drop way down in power at 95% SOC anyway. And I only charge to 100% when I think I really could use it, which is not that often.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

@DonTom
I wanted to comment on that. The Elcon seems to drop down in power at 95% SOC, but I want to clarify that this is not anything actively done by the charger. This charger can go to 132V. When you set it to 116V, and get close to 116V (full bike), the charger will go full power literally until 115,99V INSIDE THE CHARGER. At the instant it hits 116V INSIDE THE CHARGER, current will start dropping off.

What we see in terms of voltage and SOC at the bike is a different story, because of the internal resistance of the cells and the voltage drop across the plugs and wires connecting the charger to the bike.

The process goes like this:
1. Charger hits 116V.
     - Current will start dropping (the charger is not doing this actively, it's a result of it keeping the voltage at 116V)
     - The battery at this point is still slightly <116V due to the resistance of the wires and plugs
2. Battery equalizes very close to 116V, it's almost the same as the charger.
     - There is still significant charge current, as the battery hasn't fully soaked in 116V yet.
     - It is 116V externally, but due to the voltage drop across the internal resistance, the cells themselves aren't actually at 116V yet.
     - If you were to take the charger away, voltage would drop.

What I am trying to say is that the charger itself does not actively reduce power as it gets close to 116V internally. That reduction in power that we observe close to 100% only happens due to wires with resistance and battery cells with internal resistance.

Does anyone have the level 2 or level 3 password for the bms interface?  DM's welcome if yo udont' want to post it.

I am not able to get the pack cells over 4.1 volts.  most likely because the elcon is maxed.  elcon is currently pulling 300 watts when i leave it plugged in.

i've had it plugged in for like 3 hours now, and the cell balance is still 375 millivolts.

ZERO BMS> balance
  -   Cell  Voltage(mV)  Diff(mV)   Graph
    -   01        4102       374    --------------------------|
    -   02        4102       374    --------------------------|
    -   03        4102       374    --------------------------|
    -   04        4103       375    --------------------------|
    -   05        4101       373    --------------------------|
    -   06        4103       375    --------------------------|
    -   07        4101       373    --------------------------|
    -   08        4100       372    --------------------------|
    -   09        4100       372    --------------------------|
    -   10        4099       371    --------------------------|
    -   11        4101       373    --------------------------|
    -   12        4101       373    --------------------------|
    -   13        4101       373    --------------------------|
    -   14        3728         0    -|
    -   15        4101       373    --------------------------|
    -   16        4102       374    --------------------------|
    -   17        4102       374    --------------------------|
    -   18        4100       372    --------------------------|
    -   19        4101       373    --------------------------|
    -   20        4098       370    --------------------------|
    -   21        4102       374    --------------------------|
    -   22        4101       373    --------------------------|
    -   23        4096       368    -------------------------|
    -   24        4100       372    --------------------------|
    -   25        4101       373    --------------------------|
    -   26        4105       377    --------------------------|
    -   27        4102       374    --------------------------|
    -   28        4102       374    --------------------------|

  - Highest Bank :  26 (4105 mV)
  - Lowest Bank  :  14 (3728 mV)
  - Imbalance    : 377 mV

this is the system after 3 hours.

i'd like to try force balancing.  i think i need level 1 or 2 for that.

In my mind the easiest thing to do would be to charge that individual cell (14) up to 4V… but I don’t know a software way to do it, nor do I know where that cell’s balance cable is in the monolith. 

I found the command dbgb or dobackgroundbal in search history.  No mention of anybody using it though.

The elcon is set to target voltage of 114VDC, and according to  logs the monolith voltage is 113.89V.  So it’s in balance mode now?  Maybe all I need to do is keep it hooked up for a few days and it will balance itself and I don’t need to issue any commands?

Hope everyone is having a great weekend!

Yes you're right.  I definitely opened up the bike WAY too early. 

thank you for posting the link DerKrawallkeks for the cable.  I have the cable up and am inside of the bms comm port now.

here is what i find so far:

ZERO BMS> status


*************************************************************
*                       Pack Status                         *
*************************************************************

  General Configuration
  Current Time (RTC)    01/07/2023 00:58:49
  Firmware revision                      60
  Model Year                           2014
  Number of Bricks                        4
  Pack Type                   2014_monolith

  Pack Status
  State of Charge                        58 %
  Pack Voltage                      113.894 V
  Highest Cell                         4083 mV
  Lowest Cell                          3715 mV
  Cell Balance                          368 mV
  Pack Current                            0 A
  Highest Pack Temp                      19 C
  Lowest Pack Temp                       18 C

  Isolation Status
  Isolation Resistance               -15205 KOhms
  Isolation Voltage                    4067 mV
  Isolation Cell                          0

  Bike Status
  System On                              No
  Contactor Closed                       No
  CAN Connected                          No
  CAN Operational                        No

  Charger Status
  Ext Charger Attached                   No
  Ext Charger Enabled                   Yes
  MBB Charger Attached                   No
  Charging Allowed                      Yes

  Charger Disables:
  - None

  Warnings and Errors:
  - Current Sensor calibration has not been set.






_____

ZERO BMS> balstats


*************************************************************
*                    Balance Statistics                     *
*************************************************************

  - Balance Resistor Usage
    -   01       31198     31198    |
    -   02       31766     31766    |
    -   03       31122     31122    |
    -   04       30413     30413    |
    -   05       29554     29554    |
    -   06       29845     29845    |
    -   07       25909     25909    |
    -   08       25549     25549    |
    -   09       25795     25795    |
    -   10       25337     25337    |
    -   11       23786     23786    |
    -   12       24660     24660    |
    -   13       24586     24586    |
    -   14           0         0    |
    -   15       27039     27039    |
    -   16       26429     26429    |
    -   17       25289     25289    |
    -   18       26784     26784    |
    -   19       25762     25762    |
    -   20       26749     26749    |
    -   21       26902     26902    |
    -   22       24981     24981    |
    -   23       17169     17169    |
    -   24       26263     26263    |
    -   25       26149     26149    |
    -   26       26346     26346    |
    -   27       27252     27252    |
    -   28       25956     25956    |



____



ZERO BMS>inputs


*************************************************************
*                     BMS Measurements                      *
*************************************************************

  - Bank Voltages             :  01 -  4082 mV
                              :  02 -  4081 mV
                              :  03 -  4082 mV
                              :  04 -  4083 mV
                              :  05 -  4081 mV
                              :  06 -  4084 mV
                              :  07 -  4081 mV
                              :  08 -  4080 mV
                              :  09 -  4080 mV
                              :  10 -  4079 mV
                              :  11 -  4081 mV
                              :  12 -  4081 mV
                              :  13 -  4080 mV
                              :  14 -  3715 mV
                              :  15 -  4080 mV
                              :  16 -  4081 mV
                              :  17 -  4081 mV
                              :  18 -  4079 mV
                              :  19 -  4080 mV
                              :  20 -  4078 mV
                              :  21 -  4081 mV
                              :  22 -  4081 mV
                              :  23 -  4076 mV
                              :  24 -  4081 mV
                              :  25 -  4080 mV
                              :  26 -  4083 mV
                              :  27 -  4081 mV
                              :  28 -  4081 mV

  - Highest Cell              :  06 -  4084 mV
  - Lowest Cell               :  14 -  3715 mV
  - Pack Imbalance            :         369 mV

  - Bank Voltage Sum          :       113893 mV

  - Group Voltages            :  01 - 24470 mV
                              :  02 - 24456 mV
                              :  03 - 24088 mV
                              :  04 - 24458 mV
                              :  05 - 16308 mV

  - Group Voltage Sum         :       113780 mV

  - State Of Charge          :           58 %

  - 3.3V Supply               :        3250 mV
  - 5V Supply                 :        4950 mV

  - Pack Current              :           0 uA
  - Raw Current Sense Voltage :           0 mV
  - Cal Current Sense Voltage :           0 mV
  - Total Discharge           :    36494877 uA  - Total Adjusted Discharge  :    36494877 uA
  - Chassis Isolation Sense   :           0 mV (    0 ADC )
  - Precharge Voltage         :           0 mV (    0 ADC )

  - Pack Temps
    - Brick 0               :  00 -    19 C (  637 ADC, 1866mV )
                            :  01 -    18 C (  641 ADC, 1877mV )
    - Brick 1               :  00 -    19 C (  636 ADC, 1863mV )
                            :  01 -    19 C (  633 ADC, 1854mV )
    - Brick 2               :  00 -    19 C (  638 ADC, 1869mV )
                            :  01 -    19 C (  634 ADC, 1857mV )
    - Brick 3               :  00 -    19 C (  631 ADC, 1848mV )
                            :  01 -    19 C (  635 ADC, 1860mV )

  - BMS Temps                 :  00 -    20 C ( 4029 ADC )
                              :  01 -    20 C ( 3950 ADC )
                              :  02 -    19 C ( 3884 ADC )
                              :  03 -    23 C ( 4376 ADC )

  - MCU Internal Temp         :          12 C (  618 ADC )

  - Bike Is On                :  0
  - Charger 0 Is Connected    :  0

  - Board ID                  :  3
  - Node ID                   :  0

  - PL536 Fault Pin           :  0
  - PL536 Alert Pin           :  0
  - PL536 Drdy Pin            :  1





Seems like there is an issue with 14?  everyone else looks great.

Thank you, and yes, i will slow down now.  I'm planning to put the pack back together with some ugly caulking job maybe this weekend if it does not rain.

Also, DonTom, regarding the elcon,  when i am below 60% battery charge (according to the app)  the elcon will charge up to 1400 Watts on 120VAC.  but once it hits around 60%, if using the OBC, i can hear the contactor turning on and off.  but if i hook the Elcon in directly and turn the key on (forcing the contactor switch on) then It just draws 200watts or so.  maybe 175.

I have a AC clamp current measurer, and also monitor all of my power draw in my electrical system. (victron).  i am leaning towards saying that the elcon is working OK.  I trust Sayyid and his programming.

I will most likely not do anything unless you all recommend something. 

weird that only 1 cell is down, all the others are pretty close.

Appreciate you all!