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Hey,
the infinite clicking is a bit unusual. I had taken those chargers out of the bike and powered them. This means they were not connected to a battery or other load, just like in your scenario where the contactor never closes. Still, there was no infinite clicking. They just started to power up, detected no load and shut down I if I remember correctly (they are Meanwell HLG LED Drivers for the 2013). Anyway this should be unrelated to your problem.

More tests... I have disconnected my onboard charger from the CCU (you were right, this charger only has a 220ac connection and a 116dc charging output, no other connection) and when I connect it, despite the fact that the click, click, click continues to be heard endlessly, it gives The 116v output perfectly and does not cut off at any time (without load, only the voltmeter connected)
Another test that I have done is to measure the voltage of the lines Can power 5v (red cable in battery connector or CCU) Can gnd (black cable) and I have no voltage, 0v; Should there be voltage on this line with the motorcycle off? when connecting to 220ac to charge I don't have the 5v of the Can line either

Hey,
the infinite clicking is a bit unusual. I had taken those chargers out of the bike and powered them. This means they were not connected to a battery or other load, just like in your scenario where the contactor never closes. Still, there was no infinite clicking. They just started to power up, detected no load and shut down I if I remember correctly (they are Meanwell HLG LED Drivers for the 2013). Anyway this should be unrelated to your problem.

Ok, I'll try disconnecting the charger from the battery to see if it does the same thing as yours...
But this charging error does have to do with my ignition failure, correct me if I'm wrong, but if there is a short circuit or error in the bms, neither the battery charge nor the ignition of the motorcycle would work, as exactly happens to me .
I am going to try disconnecting the battery completely (releasing the connector pack) and measure voltages and aim in the contactor area... since I have some voltages here that I think are not correct... such as the connector of the contactor has two cables, one white and the other orange-gray, both have a connection to b+ low battery and I suppose it should only have the orange-gray
Does anyone have a clue about this?

As you commented in your previous message... The contactor is controlled by the MBB???
Well, it's a very good question, after reviewing schematics for other Zero models for thousands of hours and the existing schematic for 2013; of course, also taking measurements on the motorcycle itself and disassembling it almost completely....... even so, it is not very clear to me "what controls what, when and how"; but I have some suspicions, if someone confirms or denies them, it would be a great advance.
I think the starting of the bike goes more or less in this order...the key switch connects a pin with B- to another pin on the MBB(red and white wire) to activate the ignition and I guess the mbb with "some voltage or signal" tells the bms to activate the contactor and sends "another signal" to the sevcom to activate the motor... but since I don't know what type of signal or voltage has to be produced for it to work or how the bms has to respond to activate the contactor i can't figure out the fault.
I deduce that my problem is in the bms because apart from the start-up, the charge also fails (onboard charger).
When I plug it in to charge, a soft click-click-click is heard in the lower area of ??the battery (where the charger is located) and it does not close the contactor to charge the battery.
From what I have been able to find out, I think that both when turning on and when charging, the mbb needs some type of response from the bms or vice versa and it is not happening... knowing the necessary voltages or signals could theoretically fool the mbb so that he believed that the bms is fine and turned everything on.


I have all kinds of measurements; with key switch on, off, in outputs and inputs of the bms, ccu, mbb, sevcom, contactor etc... if someone thinks they can help me I can provide all the information they need, as I mentioned in my first message there is a video on youtube of a 2015 zero ds working perfectly with the broken BMS and also marking an error on the board, simply canceling and replacing some signals, but it does not explain which signals it replaces (the person in the video had two bms motherboards, one in good condition and that is why he was able to know the necessary tensions) and does not respond to emails either

Thank you very much for answering, a short circuit in my dcdc broke my mbb, I have not changed the dcdc because I have been able to repair it, now the dcdc (normally activated by the mbb enable signal) is disconnected from the mbb and I turn it on with an auxiliary relay, If you look at my message, I explain that the ignition and power voltages reach the mbb but it does not turn on (it does not output an enable signal, nor does it activate the contactor)
The lights, indicators, horn etc are a separate 12v circuit, and this works perfectly, I can turn it on and off at will.
What does not work is charging or riding the motorcycle, since the mbb does not activate the contactor & It does not give any enable signal either (to the dcdc or to the battery charger), I suppose due to the lack of some voltage coming from the bms (just these voltages are what I am trying to find out)

Quote from: colillon on January 31, 2022, 04:40:25 PM

Quote from: rgutt on January 27, 2022, 08:30:52 AM

I suspect it has something to do with the key on input to the MBB among possibly other things. There's a schematic for a 2016 model floating around that doesn't show the lower power B+ fuse else this would be easy. However, there is already a 4-amp fuse on the 100v line to the MBB and various 12-volt fuses coming off the DC-DC converter to the standard automotive accessories like the lights, indicators, dash, etc.

When I remove the low power B+ fuse, the dash doesn't even come on. Given that the dash receives power directly from the DC-DC converter through an ATC fuse (and I doubt Zero would have doubled down on the fusing in the same wire), I have to conclude that the low power B+ fuse breaks the key on input signal to the MBB, which the MBB would use to enable the DC-DC converter.

Next chance I get, I'll probe the voltages at the fuse key on and off relative to B-. Key off I think it was about 7-1/2 volts, which is an odd value.

Thanks for participating in the post, the assumptions of how the low power fuse b+ works or what they say in the manual about how to place the fuse, I have them clear, but I have realized that nobody really knows what this fuse really protects, I have made thousands of measurements and there is only one power line for the mbb from the bms and it is pin 7 and 18, low power line b+ and b-. My idea was the same that that fuse would protect the power supply of the mbb on pin 7 and that when removing or melting that fuse it would stop feeding that pin (then the mbb takes those 110v and takes them out through the enable pin that goes to the dcdc to turn on the 12v part)....the problem I find is that when I remove the low power battery b+ fuse I still have power to the 110v mbb (pins 7 and 18)

With the main contactor of the battery off, that low power circuit is the only power supply, otherwise you won't be able to turn the bike on again, so yes, directly from the battery trough that low power b+ fuse, the BMS is powered (to log what's happening with the battery, and be able to turn the main contactor on when requested by the MBB, or charger), and also the MBB will get power to be able to turn the bike on.
That little fuse is very important, and it can ruin your day

I REPEAT AGAIN SINCE I SEE THAT IT IS NOT CLEAR:
Thank you very much again for participating, but either I have not been able to express myself or I am not being understood for some reason... if that fuse we are talking about protects the power line of the mbb, why by removing it I still have power in the mbb?? In other words, without that fuse connected, I still have 110v power on my mbb between pins 7 and 18 (normally it is powered on these pins).

I suspect it has something to do with the key on input to the MBB among possibly other things. There's a schematic for a 2016 model floating around that doesn't show the lower power B+ fuse else this would be easy. However, there is already a 4-amp fuse on the 100v line to the MBB and various 12-volt fuses coming off the DC-DC converter to the standard automotive accessories like the lights, indicators, dash, etc.

When I remove the low power B+ fuse, the dash doesn't even come on. Given that the dash receives power directly from the DC-DC converter through an ATC fuse (and I doubt Zero would have doubled down on the fusing in the same wire), I have to conclude that the low power B+ fuse breaks the key on input signal to the MBB, which the MBB would use to enable the DC-DC converter.

Next chance I get, I'll probe the voltages at the fuse key on and off relative to B-. Key off I think it was about 7-1/2 volts, which is an odd value.

Thanks for participating in the post, the assumptions of how the low power fuse b+ works or what they say in the manual about how to place the fuse, I have them clear, but I have realized that nobody really knows what this fuse really protects, I have made thousands of measurements and there is only one power line for the mbb from the bms and it is pin 7 and 18, low power line b+ and b-. My idea was the same that that fuse would protect the power supply of the mbb on pin 7 and that when removing or melting that fuse it would stop feeding that pin (then the mbb takes those 110v and takes them out through the enable pin that goes to the dcdc to turn on the 12v part)....the problem I find is that when I remove the low power battery b+ fuse I still have power to the 110v mbb (pins 7 and 18)

Something that I had forgotten to comment on is that the short circuit that generated the problem was between the enable signal coming from the mbb to pin 1 of the dcdc and the signal b-