ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: alko on March 05, 2020, 08:00:22 PM
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Great News! GM announces new electric car battery that tops Tesla and is cheaper.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/03/04/business/gm-electric-car-battery-400-miles-of-range/index.html
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Thanks Alko, I was just about to post this but your up earlier than me. :)
It all sounds good and (kind of what I predicted in another thread) gets people closer to what they deal with in their gas vehicles.
Which is what it takes to get them to switch over.
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Are these really much different from Zero's Cobalt based pouch batteries? I suspect if a 390 mi. range Tesla had the same weight of Zero batteries it would do better then 400 miles.
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Tesla batteries weigh about 50% more than ours...
...But they also include many more cells and active cooling and more balancing and at that weight/size you need more structure so...
The formulation the current Bolt batteries use is very similar to ours.
-Crissa
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Great News! GM announces new electric car battery that tops Tesla and is cheaper.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/03/04/business/gm-electric-car-battery-400-miles-of-range/index.html
The article is wrong. More range than "ANY Tesla" ?
Compare GM or ANY EV to the specs here. (https://www.tesla.com/roadster)
Tesla will most likely always be ahead of the rest simply because they only do EVs and nothing else.
And BTW, even my Tesla Model Three (LR) will do better than 400 miles (at 38 MPH).
IMO, ranges claims are rather useless without charts like for Tesla. (https://twitter.com/TroyTeslike/status/1038920763955396608)
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Yes, Don, but they're talking potential cars, not actual cars like you're talking.
GM probably will come out with a super-range car. It'll be silly expensive and not very efficient since it's hauling around that heavy battery pack. And it probably won't sell well and they'll discontinue it. Or they'll keep it stuck in potential concept car limbo.
-Crissa
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By "tops" Tesla, they just mean the battery pack has more capacity. That's not necessarily indicative of good engineering, though, just lots and lots of cells strung together. Not much challenge in that.
And they're taking liberties saying it's cheaper, as well. My digging around says Tesla was under the $100/kWh threshold for cell cost alone two years ago, and they were projecting they'd be able to make complete packs for that by this year. Dunno if they're there yet, but IIRC GM was talking about the cell cost alone, in which case they're at best even with Tesla, perhaps trailing, with a battery pack they have yet to hit the production line with.
It's just silly and at best marginally untrue sales hype.
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GM might be dreaming, because the new Tesla roadster is supposed to have more range than any other car (not just electric).
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Tesla will be imminently revealing new battery tech in the next few weeks that'll likely just blow everyone else into the weeds again. I wait with interest.
Notice that Tesla keep their cards firmly to their chests to avoid the Osborne effect. I suspect when they do the big reveal, they'll already have the factories producing them.
Cas :)
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Yes, Don, but they're talking potential cars, not actual cars like you're talking.
The part I was referring to was where it says:
"General Motors announced it has created a new electric vehicle battery that offers up to 400 miles of range "
Even my Tesla M3 can do better than 400 miles on a charge (at 38 MPH). GM has a ways to go to catch up with Tesla. By the time GM makes something better than Tesla has now, Tesla will probably have three times the range of GM as well as much faster charging. IMO, it will be a big mistake for GM to try to catch up with Tesla's specs on anything. GM would be better off trying to make EVs more affordable, IMO, instead of trying to beat Telsa's specs.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Lots of speculation on here. The important thing is that within 2 years, chevy, BMW and others are finally taking it seriously and many other ev's will be available. The compitition with battery tech range will only make things better.
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While it's great that GM's making some really high-density batteries, I feel a little bit concerned about how good the cooling is in those prismatic cells. GM said that individual cells are easily able to be swapped in case of failure but that means cooling integration must have been sacrificed in some manner.
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I don't know how they're connecting, but the units are supposed to have integrated battery management so kinda like Zero's monoliths, I guess. Maybe some of the connections are for coolant, but they don't say. I'd assume they'd do that since their current batteries do and they want to charge using the high voltage DC.
-Crissa
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I don't know how they're connecting, but the units are supposed to have integrated battery management so kinda like Zero's monoliths, I guess. Maybe some of the connections are for coolant, but they don't say. I'd assume they'd do that since their current batteries do and they want to charge using the high voltage DC.
-Crissa
GM's gotta be doing something right with the cooling if they're going to charge at 350kW as promised.
I wonder what Tesla has in store for their battery day announcement. I hope they also plan on switching to prismatic cells, and 800V for 350+ kW charging.
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Double the battery capacity and only slightly more range than Tesla? Yawn.
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Double the battery capacity and only slightly more range than Tesla? Yawn.
I am at least glad to see the range war is on. Even with E-motorcycles with Energica upping the ante with their 21.5 KWH battery. I wonder what Zero will have next for a battery KWH rating and range.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Double the battery capacity and only slightly more range than Tesla? Yawn.
I am at least glad to see the range war is on. Even with E-motorcycles with Energica upping the ante with their 21.5 KWH battery. I wonder what Zero will have next for a battery KWH rating and range.
-Don- Auburn, CA
I agree. I believe Zero will up the capacity for 2021 as well. And from what I've been reading, Graphene and Solid State batteries are just around the corner. Graphene perhaps sooner than Solid State if they can get the cost down.
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I await both technologies before I take the final plunge.
Cas :)
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The only problem will be that if the batteries are really much of an advancement, it will be a EV feeding frenzy to see which companies can get them quickly. And likely Zero and other small electric motorcycle companies will have to get in the back of the long and expensive line.
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The graphene tech is particularly interesting because it requires virtually no changes - same packaging and form factor for the design, just a wee bit of carbon strategically inserted into the process. Graphene probably will arrive a good bit quicker than solid state to the mass market.
Cas :)
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I want to say YOU'RE WELCOME to everyone here for the New battery from GM.
I am SURE that I am responsible for it, since I purchased my 2020 Bolt In January.
;)
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Funny, Ed! ^-^
-Crissa
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I was hoping that someone would see the humor.
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I want to say YOU'RE WELCOME to everyone here for the New battery from GM.
I am SURE that I am responsible for it, since I purchased my 2020 Bolt In January.
;)
Likewise, I am responsible Energica's new 21.5 KWH battery because I purchased my Esse Esse 9 a few weeks before they announced it.
-Don- Reno, NV
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There was an article in my newspaper today regarding the new GM "Ultium Battery Technology". Here are three quotes from the article written by Peter Douglas:
"Pioneered in conjunction with LG Chem, Ultiums will compete with the incredible batteries made by Tesla. They are fashioned from interlocking cells that are encased in a polymer instead of metal, and they use 70% less cobalt, a problematic metal. GM will mass-produce them at a new plant in Lordstown, Ohio. They hope to drive battery costs below $100 per KWh, reducing the price of their EVs considerably."
"The Ultium battery cells can be stacked vertically or horizontally to produce lighter batteries in an endless variety of sizes and shapes. The flexibility will allow GM to customize battery configurations for a wide variety of vehicles. Battery capacities will theoretically range from 50 to a whopping 200 KWh. GM claims that their largest arrays will deliver 400 miles on a single charge."
"Most Ultium vehicles will run on 400 volts and accept rapid supercharging at 200 KW. GM's electric trucks will crank the voltage up to 800 and supercharge at a blazing 350 KW!"
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Richard you find lots of good articles, the third and fourth paragraph are quite informative. As for the second one.
Is that price for the battery or really just for the cells in the battery?
70% less cobalt than what? the most modern 2170 batteries coming out of the giga factory joint venture of Panasonic and Tesla?
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Richard you find lots of good articles, the third and fourth paragraph are quite informative. As for the second one.
Is that price for the battery or really just for the cells in the battery?
70% less cobalt than what? the most modern 2170 batteries coming out of the giga factory joint venture of Panasonic and Tesla?
Frankly I wasn't all that thrilled with the way the article was written, which is why I placed what I copied in quotes. I didn't want to be blamed for the poor writing. ::) I don't know any more than what the author said, however later on he mentioned that GM would be using the batteries on their more expensive models because they generate more profit for the company. It also didn't sound like they were planning to sell their battery components on the open market. ???
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Less than previous GM batteries. So basically following Tesla.
-Crissa
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Look at the Tesla Cybertruck Tri Motor AWD specs to see where Tesla thinks they will be in late 2021. Greater than 500 miles of EPA range, less than 2.9 second 0-60, greater than 14,000 lbs. towing capacity.
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck (https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck)
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The Cybertruck still faces an uphill battle (ahem ahem, I'll get me coat etc)... the range looks great until it's asked to actually do the work of a real pickup truck, which might be, for example towing a caravan up into the mountains 300 miles away, at which point it suddenly looks pretty a grim idea. I suspect they're going to get serious on that battery and maybe double its size.
Cas :)
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That's why they offer a larger battery and tri-motor version.
It's not like the ICE is more efficient at it. It's that it can just put in more gas.
Maybe an electric truck will need a trailer with an augment battery pack. Which the design of the new GM packs as isolated and modular would encourage as possible - and Tesla's software reportedly now supports back flow through charger ports.
-Crissa