ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: JaimeC on March 05, 2020, 02:19:48 AM
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I've gotten spoiled. Most of the Level2 Chargepoint stations around here are free though some of them do require a fee. Today I met a friend for lunch at the Huntington Hilton and they had EVConnect stations in their parking lot. They charge $.25 a kilowatt, so having lunch with my friend cost me $1.48 above what I paid for the buffet at the Indian Restaurant inside. Still a LOT cheaper than a tank of gas even in my Yamaha XMAX with it's 3.3 gallon tank.
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Yeah...my gut tells me that within 5 years "free" charging away from home or certain places of employment will be a thing of the past. In fact, I can see "free charging" being a "benefit" some employers will probably start touting in the not too distant future.
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I'm old enough to remember when ALL bank ATMs were free... so I've a strong feeling you're right. Once everyone is hooked, you've got them right where you want them...
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I must be older...when the ATM went in at my bank back in the early 80s, we had to PAY a 50 cent surcharge to use it. The tellers were still free during working hours.
Stuff changes.
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Next week is my chance to try this in the wild. Oh, I have a number of free places around me in Cleveland. But I will be down in Daytona Beach for Bike Week.
There is a distillery with some Tesla stations that I hope to hit. Oh darn, have to have to take the tour.
A few J stations near the airport.
Many B&Bs and hotels with various stations but for guests only.
It will be a chance to try to find a non-ICEd station free.
Edit: We will have a wall socket at the AirBnB but there are several of us who will be there so I don't know how much I will get to use it.
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Here in Belgium free charging has already mostly died. There were some charge stations in the past where you could charge for free from bigger companies like Mc Donalds and shops like Lidl and Ikea. But if you go there now they're all replaced by paid option.
On the plus side you can get a single charge card that works with (almost all) the chargers and there are many available. You can even have a charge point installed at home that you let other people pay to charge for.
Prices differ a lot so you have to keep an eye on that when looking at the available points on the map. But most are set to 0.30 to 0.35 EUR per Kwh.
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Hi Hans2183, I use the plugsurfing app as I can pay via paypal for my charges as I found the card option very confusing... what card do you use?
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In France, free charging is extremely rare.
And public charge stations are dying fast :
- the main energy supplyer (Corri-door by EDF) just announced the closure of 90% of its 250 highway charge stations
- city services offers an overpriced connexion time fee (0.27€/minute (0.30$/min) !), not a Kwh price, AND a monthly subscription
- Ionity has just raised its price to an insane level (0.79€/Kwh (0.88$/Kwh))
- and Tesla... but just for Tesla (I know what brand I'll choose for my next car... ;D)
and almost each supplyer has its own mandatory card.
My employer has a maintenance and exploitation contract with a company specialized in charge station (Ze-Watt, with its own card too). The price is 0.23€ / ZW (0.26$/ZW), where 1 ZW is approximately 1 Kwh.
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Hi Hans2183, I use the plugsurfing app as I can pay via paypal for my charges as I found the card option very confusing... what card do you use?
NewMotion (https://newmotion.com/nl_BE/), it's free (apart from charging costs obviously) and most chargers are supported.
The website doesn't show a map, for that you have to use their app. I think they rebranded it to something Shell (part of that company). You must hold the card against the charger to start charging. Stop charging can be done with the same NFC on the card or you can use the app to remotely stop charging.
Most important (for me) is that they give you an invoice monthly.
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I actually prefer stations that cost money, rather than free. They tend to be better-maintained (more likely to be online and functional), and people with EVs won't park there and plug in just to get the parking space.
I mostly charge at home, but when I need a charge somewhere, I like to go somewhere that works and is available. That's worth a few bucks to me.
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I actually prefer stations that cost money, rather than free. They tend to be better-maintained (more likely to be online and functional), and people with EVs won't park there and plug in just to get the parking space.
I mostly charge at home, but when I need a charge somewhere, I like to go somewhere that works and is available. That's worth a few bucks to me.
Yes, $1/hr for 240vac J-plug is about right. Millbrae draws a lot of commerce with 4 lots with 4+ stations each, and they are all well maintained.
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I agree. It seems only fair to pay a fair price for a charge. Places like casinos give free charges as an incentive to get people inside, but out in the wild, I don't expect free juice.
Assuming it's a fair price, that is. Some of these outfits charge way, way too much, to the point it's cheaper to ride/drive ICE. That does cause me some indigestion. I imagine it will work itself out at some point.
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I visited the Pt. Reyes National Seashore (north of San Francisco) visitor center yesterday and saw a row of free L2 charging stations in the parking lot in front of their building. And not an EV in sight.
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$.25 a kW is almost twice what I pay for it at home, BUT it is still a damned sight cheaper than paying for enough gasoline to get me the equivalent distance down the road. I have no complaints.
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Prices will likely go up (both at home and on location) once more and more people have converted to EV.
And because of rising sea levels we get more rain and we'll get more CEL showing up on SR/F models :D
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In NL free charging is rare as well, there are some Google Maps-efforts to collect them but then again, public charging at a price is widely available. Mostly costing between 0,30-0,40 per kWh which is reasonable. @home the costs are 0.26/kWh including everything.
@Ooook: Really?!? They are disassembling their highway chargers AND making it difficult to public charge?!? Thank God I chose a Tesla then, otherwise all of France would be a no-go for me this summer... What are they thinking? That electric is a fad that will blow over?
Protip for the other Europeans here: Some providers have a contract with Ionity meaning charge prices are 35ct/kWh, regardless if it's AC or DC. Check out the Maingau pass from Germany, charges 35ct/kWh at Ionity, Fastned and other networks!
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@Ooook: Really?!? They are disassembling their highway chargers AND making it difficult to public charge?!? Thank God I chose a Tesla then, otherwise all of France would be a no-go for me this summer... What are they thinking? That electric is a fad that will blow over?
https://www.electrive.com/2020/03/01/izivia-shuts-down-189-of-217-fast-charging-stations-in-france/
Looking at the news, it sounds like they bought custom boxes and that there's some sort of fault in how they're set up or installed and they think the chargers will catch on fire. That's a pretty big loss. That they're not looking to repair and only replace tells to some other weakness in their company, I think. If they don't have the money, they don't have the money.
-Crissa
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Prices will likely go up (both at home and on location) once more and more people have converted to EV.
And because of rising sea levels we get more rain and we'll get more CEL showing up on SR/F models :D
My price at home is locked in for the next 25 years. That was part of the deal when we installed the solar panels in 2015.
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> In NL free charging is rare as well, there are some Google Maps-efforts to collect them ...
It's not as simple as unchecking the Requires Fee box in plugshare?
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
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$.25 a kW is almost twice what I pay for it at home, BUT it is still a damned sight cheaper than paying for enough gasoline to get me the equivalent distance down the road. I have no complaints.
I tell people public charging is about double the cost of home charging, and gasoline is about double the price of that. Per mile. Holds pretty true for the fast DC networks and prices in California. For L2 charging, prices vary more. Chargepoint station pricing varies the most.
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I tell people public charging is about double the cost of home charging, and gasoline is about double the price of that. Per mile. Holds pretty true for the fast DC networks and prices in California. For L2 charging, prices vary more. Chargepoint station pricing varies the most.
Often, it costs more to charge my Energica (CCS charging) on the road than the price of gasoline, but I often charge to 100% when on the road.
My TTSE usually gets around 52 MPG. That is the cheapest way for me to go 100 miles or more.
My home charging in Reno is 11.7 cents per KWH (by coincidence, the same as the KWH nominal capacity of the SS9 battery). However, here in Auburn all utilities are more expensive than Reno, most by more than double.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I just received my PG&E bill and noted that I am paying about 24 cents a KWh at the lowest tier. And I just heard a prediction that electric rates could go up 40 to 50% once the utility company gets out of bankruptcy court, pays off its creditors and applies for money to implement safety improvements that hopefully will not cause any more huge fires. :(
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> Often, it costs more to charge my Energica (CCS charging) on the road than the price of gasoline, but I often charge to 100% when on the road.
Yeah, per-minute EVgo and EA suck when you are only charging at Energica or LiveWire rates.
50kW EVgo with at Tesla gave only 43kW the other day, cost me about 36c/kWh, and that's at the reduced rate you get if you commit to 7.99/mo minimum. So of course, if you are only drawing half that, the cost per kWh doubles, since they charge per minute. I'll definitely favor ChargePoint for DCFC with the Energica.
Some EVgo stations have a discount via the DRIVEtheARC app though. Have yet to try that.
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> I just received my PG&E bill and noted that I am paying about 24 cents a KWh at the lowest tier. And I just heard a prediction that electric rates could go up 40 to 50% once the utility company gets out of bankruptcy court, pays off its creditors and applies for money to implement safety improvements that hopefully will not cause any more huge fires. :(
Oh, man. How credible is that prediction?
Lock in solar now, get Powerwalls. I have powerwalls, but can't "island" till I get more solar.
Tesla announced a special deal on solar rental for PG&E territory. Guaranteed to save you money, I think they said. I think it was during fire/outage season this past summer.
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> I just received my PG&E bill and noted that I am paying about 24 cents a KWh at the lowest tier. And I just heard a prediction that electric rates could go up 40 to 50% once the utility company gets out of bankruptcy court, pays off its creditors and applies for money to implement safety improvements that hopefully will not cause any more huge fires. :(
Oh, man. How credible is that prediction?
Lock in solar now, get Powerwalls. I have powerwalls, but can't "island" till I get more solar.
Tesla announced a special deal on solar rental for PG&E territory. Guaranteed to save you money, I think they said. I think it was during fire/outage season this past summer.
The person making that prediction was interviewed on KGO radio this afternoon. She used to be the president of the California Public Utility Commission so she knows what she is talking about.
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Liability cash has to come from somewhere. Can't come from people already paid by a company, for some reason.
-Crissa
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In France, free charging is extremely rare.
And public charge stations are dying fast :
- the main energy supplyer (Corri-door by EDF) just announced the closure of 90% of its 250 highway charge stations
?? That sounds crazy. They spent a lot to build the network, and just completed it 1-2 years ago; why would they do this?
IIRC they also received an EU grant; can they even close it down under the terms of the grant?[/list]
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the main energy supplyer (Corri-door by EDF) just announced the closure of 90% of its 250 highway charge stations
?? That sounds crazy. They spent a lot to build the network, and just completed it 1-2 years ago; why would they do this?
https://www.electrive.com/2020/03/01/izivia-shuts-down-189-of-217-fast-charging-stations-in-france/
Looking at the news, it sounds like they bought custom boxes and that there's some sort of fault in how they're set up or installed and they think the chargers will catch on fire. That's a pretty big loss.
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the main energy supplyer (Corri-door by EDF) just announced the closure of 90% of its 250 highway charge stations
?? That sounds crazy. They spent a lot to build the network, and just completed it 1-2 years ago; why would they do this?
https://www.electrive.com/2020/03/01/izivia-shuts-down-189-of-217-fast-charging-stations-in-france/
Looking at the news, it sounds like they bought custom boxes and that there's some sort of fault in how they're set up or installed and they think the chargers will catch on fire. That's a pretty big loss.
That would explain it, thanks.
I previously found a very brief mention that also had the word "security" and had me puzzled. i.e., they mean safety.
Still raises questions. Calling a network that's 4-5 years old "quite old" is weird;
and saying "We hope to keep a quarter of the network or 40 to 50 terminals" means mostly dismantling it (this was the largest DC charger network in France) -- if it's not worth fixing the problem (I'd expect the charging equipment manufacturer would be responsible), the original layout of the network as a whole would seem to be in question, and since there was significant public funding, a bit troubling as well.
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Well, if they were paid to built it, they probably don't have the money to rebuild the network.
In the US, a company admitting that their choice to change a standard unit would bring a huge amount of liability upon them. It's probably similar in the EU on this point.
-Crissa
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The manufacturer EVBox says otherwise : ???
- the problem is directly linked to the specific configuration asked by the energy supplier Izivia/EDF, and appeared 2 times only
- there was no risk at all for the customer
- there was a lack of maintenance from Izivia/EDF, despite EVBox's warning
- Izivia/EDF declined EVBox's offer to help reopen the network
(source : https://news.evbox.com/en-WW/186774-evbox-s-statement-regarding-izivia-s-decision-to-permanently-close-part-of-the-corri-door-network-france )
EVBox also supply the same charge stations to a local operator along the river Rhone, they had 1 similar problem but the inquiry concludes it was an isolated incident.
(http://www.avem.fr/img/news/2017/6772_2.jpg)
And finally, in their previous press release, Izivia/EDF also said there were not enough customer for these stations...
Draw your own conclusion... ::)
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That doesn't contradict what I said, though. Thanks for the additional information, but the article linked to said the same thing: It was something in their configuration and they refused to fix it. Neither explained who would pay the cost of fixing them and EDF didn't say they'd do it for free.
-Crissa
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Hopefully the network is bought by some company that will make the allegedly small investment needed to fix it.
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> > Often, it costs more to charge my Energica (CCS charging) on the road than the price of gasoline, but I often charge to 100% when on the road.
> Yeah, per-minute EVgo and EA suck when you are only charging at Energica or LiveWire rates.
> 50kW EVgo with at Tesla gave only 43kW the other day, cost me about 36c/kWh, ...
And at the same price per minute, same kind of station gave my Energica only 21-22kW yesterday. 70 amps and I didn't see how to increase it.
So double the cost, on a per kW basis.
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Oops, this is the Zero forum. CCS and Energica ara a bit off topic, sorry. J-1772 or Tesla Destination are by far the best deal, often free.