ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: valnar on February 26, 2020, 09:59:57 PM
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I know most people tend to only post issues and not "everything is good", so I thought I'd take a poll. I'm mostly concerned with the more modern 2016+ Zeros and those still under warranty.
--= Have you had any significant problems with your Zero? =--
I'm trying to get a feel if 50% of the owners complain here, or just the mere 5%. ;)
All of the motorcycle reliability surveys that place the Japanese bikes at the top don't include the electric manufacturers.
-Robert
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Only issue I had was the rubber backing on the drive belt started delaminating around 9,000 miles. I did NOT consider that "normal wear and tear" but was told the belt is specifically not covered by the warranty. I still insist it was a manufacturing defect but Zero doesn't seem to see it that way so I had to pay for the replacement belt out of my own pocket.
Please note that my current Zero is the fifth belt-driven bike I've owned (and the second Zero) and this is the first time I ever had an issue with a drive belt. My 2016 S had 16,000 miles on the original belt and was still as good as new when the bike was totaled in an accident by an inattentive jackass driving an Audi back in 2018.
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Zero issues with my SR/F so far.
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With my 2017 SR, I had to replace the front sensor for the ABS. When this happened, the bike was still in warranty but I paid for the part and fixed it myself anyway because it is easier than dealing with a dealer.
My 2017 DS ZF 6.5 is now in the shop in Reno. It has less than 50% of its normal range. The range of my SR is still as good as it was when new.
I told the shop they can take their time with my DS as I have enough bikes to ride without it. I mainly only need the DS for my RV trips but I won't be going on another RV trip for many months.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Significant issue with my SR/F - needs a new SpiderBus after only 600miles (1000km) of riding
See https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=9668.30 (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=9668.30)
I won't vote yet until I've seen how Zero deal with the replacement. They've told me it'll be a 21 day turnaround. So that's 21 days where I'm paying off finance for a brand new bike that I can't ride :(
Was told on Monday morning that the UK country manager would be calling me that very day to discuss the issue with me. It's now Wednesday evening and I haven't received a call.
So far Zero support is ranking low for me..
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Had a Blown Fuse when i picked it up, but easiy replaced for 50p, by myself.
Main issue is with the SR/F's iPhone app that doesn't work in 12 hour clock mode (in the UK) on the scheduled charging screen, and doesn't update the bike properly. Flip the phone to 24 hour mode and everything works as expected. Have emailed Zero's support twice, and was hoping for a fix when the new version with SR/S support dropped, but no.
Had the Frunk lid replaced as part of the recall, but i didn't think that was an issue myself.
Had the rear brake disc bolts tightened under another bit of warrenty work, but nothing really serious to report with it.
Took five attempts to get firmware 14 onto it, but moving the bike to the front of the garage made a better signal and it took after that.
Not as smooth, but i realise i own an experimental (for technology and industry) niche product here. the quirks are part of the fun and i've heard of worse stories from people who own big brand makes.
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Not as smooth, but i realise i own an experimental (for technology and industry) niche product here. the quirks are part of the fun and i've heard of worse stories from people who own big brand makes.
Maybe the SR/F is experimental, but I would hope that Zero had all the bugs worked out of the basics. I guess I'm more interested in models with some time behind them, like the FX and S/DS. I myself bought a new 2020 Zero FXS and I can't think there should be any known bugs left on that model seeing how it's unchanged for years. Time will tell. If there are any design issues on my FXS I'll be a bit upset.
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A firmware issue bricked my S, but they got a new MBB on their dime in three weeks.
Even for a five year old bike! That's dang good service if you ask me.
-Crissa
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I've had two issues but they've worked themselves out on their own. The first was "Sevcon cap low voltage" which I thought would mean a bad capacitor on the controller and a warranty replacement but that error disappeared and hasn't come back for I think two months now. The second was low chassis isolation on a couple of the battery cells, no idea what caused it but they went back to normal after a few days and that error also hasn't showed up since.
Other than that I also haven't been able to update the firmware but I'm not sure if that's a fault of the bike or the app. I think the app has been updated since I last tried so I'll have to try it again.
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I read other user issues before voting... then I decided. My vote is for zero issues with zero.
Yes, I have a small vibration here, a small noise there, but the bike runs smooth with no working problems so far (almost 2000kms on my dsr 2020), and I wish it continues this way.
I expect that Zero brings some of the SR/F features to the DSR Platform... the price is almost the same but we have a basic dashboard, basic lights, no traction control, less power... That's my main complain with the DSR. I tried the SR/F but I like the trail style of the dsr more :)
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My old 2014 S with PT that my daughter currently rides has had only one problem. The original on-board charger failed and was replaced by myself and my son-in-law. The part cost $800. I should add that the bike has never had a firmware "update" since it left the factory.
My 2018 S with PT has been very reliable. Its single (sort of) "problem" has been that the green charging light will not go out when the charger's power plug is pulled unless you turn the ignition switch on and then off again, or pull the plug within 10 minutes of the charger powering down. ???
The only bike that has been to back to the dealer for servicing is my 2018 model when it had its 600-mile service and "motor commissioning".
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Significant issue with my SR/F - needs a new SpiderBus after only 600miles (1000km) of riding
See https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=9668.30 (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=9668.30)
I won't vote yet until I've seen how Zero deal with the replacement.
I had that exact same issue, only occurs when riding in the rain. They transported my bike to Zero HQ EU in the Netherlands (I live in Belgium) and replaced it in around 45 days or 1,5 months. That was around 6.500 km.
However since it's back, the 3rd ride already the CEL turned on during a wet ride again. Only difference is that so far it hasn't stopped me from riding or charing. Until now it's popping up and leaving me stranded again not willing to run. Have around 8.500 km now.
Check my post history for the full story. This is the full story, it popped up again I just noticed. I'll update there also => https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=9668.0
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Just like Hans2183 only a bit worse:
My bikes still in NL, they gave me a loaner ( I'm in the UK) They said it was water ingress, OK yes i ride in the rain. They plan to replace some bits.
I've been out three times on the loaner. Second two times it cut out on me: first in the middle of an overtake, second after filtering through to the front of the traffic lights. Do I feel a fool?
To be fair Zero UK agent ( Dale) organised a small discount off on the charge tank that I wanted, but I must admit I've taken out motorcycle recovery insurance.
Thanks for putting up Poll. Seems I am in the distinctly unlucky slot.
pete
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1.
SR/F MY2020 , 800 km : 12V battery is dead (dropped from 13 to < 5V in approx. 24 hours).
According to dealer, spare part (to be outbound from Zero Netherlands EU HQ) should be available, but I am already waiting for more than a week.
(I have no issues with failing parts - can happen - , but service needs to be up to par to the > 20 k€ one is paying for the bike)
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Previously owned DSR MY2017 : no issues I can think of.
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I have owned 4 Zeros, still own 3 of them.
Any issues that I have had were all covered under warranty.
My 2013 FX(s) is still a joy to ride with no issues.
My 2014 S has had MAJOR upgrades, with the only issue being smapping
belts if I try off throttle on throttle wheelies. Other than that, all is well
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I am one of the initial owners of the SRF. Mine was pre-ordered in March and delivered in August of 2019. In buying the first year of such a radically new bike for Zero, I expected some small issues and quirks that would be worked out through updates or minor repairs. I actually was okay with that. Saying that, my bike has been in the dealer's shop for repairs 3 times in the approximately 2K miles that is on it now. My issues fall into 4 catagories: 1 major repair, 1 minor repair, 1 dealer mistake and 1 annoying issue I wish they would fix.
First the major repair. So back in late fall 2019, I pulled my SRF into a charger and it dies when I shut it off. I had the 12v and CEL lights on and the bike would not start. It had to be trucked home and then trucked to dealer where it sat for a month waiting for the dealer and zero to figure out what was wrong and fix it. It turned out they replaced the BMS and 12v battery. They said the BMS was the first generation and they had some issues with the early models. This is a major repair that should not have happened on such a new bike. Hopefully the last one.
Second I dropped it in to the dealer because the GPS and cell connection was extremely poor. They ended up replacing the Helios unit telling me it was a first generation unit (see a pattern here) and this one should solve the problem. This I considered a minor inconvenience being it really did not effect the riding of the bike and was repaired under warranty.
The third issue is the dealer's fault. After they replaced the Helios unit, the cell signal and GPS was worse. I even pulled the tank off myself to find the dealer installed the unit upside down and the antennas was pointing to the metal frame of the bike and not to the sky. There is a reason it says "This side up" on the unit. I flipped it over and the GPS was 100x better. It still didn't report the bike's status so back to the dealer where they found a loose wire. Since I had it fixed it has been a lot better. Not perfect but I know the cell signal near me is a little sketchy. This was the dealer's fault so I can't blame Zero.
The last thing that I still have is more of an annoyance. From day one i found that firmware upgrades outside of the dealer's shop is a PITA. More times than not the OTA upgrades fail. I was happy when they updated the app so you can so them over bluetooth. Still I find that using my Android phone, it would not update and using the iPhone it took 2 tries to get it to update. Zero has been doing updates like this for a long time and it shocks me they still haven't perfected it.
But with this all, I still love the bike. Most fun bike I have ever rode. If I do not have any more major issues, I hope this love affair continues many years into the future.
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Great overview. That reminds me I had my front brake light switch replaced under warranty in the beginning also. It's a tiny micro switch at the brake lever. Haven't failed since replaced.
My dealer is more of the "i'll have to check with zero " type. Afterwards he can explain some stuff based on their feedback. But I really think that what they can do at the dealership regarding real failures is rather limited.
One time he didn't want to update my bike since headquarters were already closed and if anything goes wrong he wouldn't be able to fix it.
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My 2020 Zero FX has problems charging fully and displaying an accurate state of charge, and the dealer reviewed the logs with Zero to determine it needs a new MBB under warranty, which may take a few weeks to arrive.
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My 2020 Zero FX has problems charging fully and displaying an accurate state of charge, and the dealer reviewed the logs with Zero to determine it needs a new MBB under warranty, which may take a few weeks to arrive.
Did they give you any idea of what happened? I have a 2020 Zero FXS myself but can't ride it until Spring, so I'm not sure if it would affect me either.
Was it a defective part (serial number range) or just a fluke with yours?
These kinds of responses is why I started the thread, so thank you for replying.
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UK S rider here, after 4K miles, I had the socket in the frame where you plug the charging cable into snap off.
Dealer got if changed under warranty. Scary thing to break, as you won't be able to charge your ride :(
Other than that and the horrible groaning noise when riding in the wet, bike is good. Hoping there is some reliability in the bike, as I came off a Honda Hornet 600, which got thrashed most it's life and NEVER put a foot wrong.
Now looking for a new set of tyres as I've blasted through the stock Diablo's....any recommendations?
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Already blasted the stock tyres? Only 4K miles? Where did you drive, highway to hell? XD
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Unlikely, and that's not what he writes. He talks about the issue at 4K miles. Not that he still is at 4K miles right now.
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Try Michelin Pilot Road 5s, or 4's if you're a cheapskate.
Cas :)
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Unlikely, and that's not what he writes. He talks about the issue at 4K miles. Not that he still is at 4K miles right now.
Totally right... a misread by me :D
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I had a stuck contactor once on my 2017 DSR (probably my fault) but it was an easy fix. Other than that, no issues whatsoever.
https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=7963.msg68391#msg68391
BTW, I have not done any firmware updates. It has the same firmware since it was new and I plan to keep it that way.
I do have the same issue that someone else else reported where the green charging light stays on after the bike is fully charged, but I consider that to be more of a nuisance than a maintenance issue.
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BTW, I have not done any firmware updates. It has the same firmware since it was new and I plan to keep it that way.
I do have the same issue that someone else else reported where the green charging light stays on after the bike is fully charged, but I consider that to be more of a nuisance than a maintenance issue.
These two issues seem correlated. The firmware is free, why not update it?
-Crissa
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I had a stuck contactor once on my 2017 DSR (probably my fault) but it was an easy fix. Other than that, no issues whatsoever.
https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=7963.msg68391#msg68391
BTW, I have not done any firmware updates. It has the same firmware since it was new and I plan to keep it that way.
I do have the same issue that someone else else reported where the green charging light stays on after the bike is fully charged, but I consider that to be more of a nuisance than a maintenance issue.
That would be me. It is nice to know that I am not the only one with that strange issue. One thing that I have been getting really good at is knowing when the charger will be finished with its work. I can pull the plug just in time to hear the click as the switch disconnects the charger and the solid green charging light turns off. ;)
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I do have the same issue that someone else else reported where the green charging light stays on after the bike is fully charged, but I consider that to be more of a nuisance than a maintenance issue.
Mine does that. I interpreted the green light to mean the cord is plugged in, period. Not sure how that's a nuisance?
I won't be upgrading firmware. Don't fix it if it ain't broke! Smart dealers will think the same.
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That's a terrible view of firmware. The green light is broken, if it doesn't turn on. Battery range calculations are broken if they're wrong.
It's not a matter of being wrong, anyhow, it's a matter of being optimized.
Besides, how do you know you're not affected by a bug?
https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/owner-resources/firmware/
-Crissa
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The green light is broken, if it doesn't turn on.
The green charging light comes on fine. It just doesn't turn off after the bike is 100% charged and you unplug the charge cord. You have to turn the key to on and then off to get the light to go out. Again, just a nuisance that's all.
Besides, how do you know you're not affected by a bug?
Because other than the minor charge light issue, the bike runs great.
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Besides, how do you know you're not affected by a bug?
https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/owner-resources/firmware/
The bike is working fine in all respects, there is nothing of importance in the release notes, and no safety recall notice or update advice from Zero. It would be utterly foolish for me to go to a dealer, out of boredom or curiousity, and risk my reliable wonder-toy getting bricked (many examples of that here) or start second-guessing whether some future problem was due to the "upgrade" (many examples of that here).
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The bike is working fine in all respects, there is nothing of importance in the release notes, and no safety recall notice or update advice from Zero. It would be utterly foolish for me to go to a dealer, out of boredom or curiousity, and risk my reliable wonder-toy getting bricked (many examples of that here) or start second-guessing whether some future problem was due to the "upgrade" (many examples of that here).
IOW, "If it ain't broken, don't fix it".
-Don- Auburn, CA
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IOW, "If it ain't broken, don't fix it".
Yes, but -- I used those words above and they didn't sink in...
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The bike is working fine in all respects, there is nothing of importance in the release notes, and no safety recall notice or update advice from Zero. It would be utterly foolish for me to go to a dealer, out of boredom or curiousity, and risk my reliable wonder-toy getting bricked (many examples of that here) or start second-guessing whether some future problem was due to the "upgrade" (many examples of that here).
Yep, I've read enough horror stories on this forum about problems that occurred after an update was done too. It's what has scared me off from doing any.
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...And we've had stories of bugs in the firmware making diagnosis difficult or perhaps wearing out charging and battery components.
How do you know it's broken if it hasn't failed? Do you really want it to get into a failure state first?
-Crissa
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...And we've had stories of bugs in the firmware making diagnosis difficult or perhaps wearing out charging and battery components.
I have heard no such thing.
How do you know it's broken if it hasn't failed? Do you really want it to get into a failure state first?
Ride more, worry less.
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Besides, how do you know you're not affected by a bug?
https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/owner-resources/firmware/
The bike is working fine in all respects, there is nothing of importance in the release notes, and no safety recall notice or update advice from Zero. It would be utterly foolish for me to go to a dealer, out of boredom or curiousity, and risk my reliable wonder-toy getting bricked (many examples of that here) or start second-guessing whether some future problem was due to the "upgrade" (many examples of that here).
IOW, "If it ain't broken, don't fix it".
-Don- Auburn, CA
I have said it before, the 2014 Zero S that my daughter rides has never had a firmware update since it left the factory in January 2014 and it still runs great. No problems and no complaints. As near as I can tell the only thing different about that bike from my 2018 S is that 100% SOC shows 117 volts on the Zero app, while mine tops out at 115 volts.
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I have said it before, the 2014 Zero S that my daughter rides has never had a firmware update since it left the factory in January 2014 and it still runs great. No problems and no complaints. As near as I can tell the only thing different about that bike from my 2018 S is that 100% SOC shows 117 volts on the Zero app, while mine tops out at 115 volts.
Well, I had the FW updates done on each of my Zeros and then a week or so later, I did an OTA update on each myself. The first update must be done at the dealer, the rest we can do as owners.
Anyway, the updates, two each on two bikes have caused me no weird problems at all. I did notice a couple of small differences such as no regen at 100% SOC when starting downhill, that I never had before. But no problems at all.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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The first 13k km, my DSR ate belts. Like, a new one every 3000km or so. Whey I raised the issue for the 3rd time @ Zero, they replaced my belt wheels and belt and presto, belt lasted 26k km. Turned out there was a rough spot on the rear belt wheel slowly eating my belt...
Other than that: 2 sets brake pads and a set of tires in 40k km
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I had lots of issues with the first two models (2012 and 2014 models). Due 2/3 to build quality, 1/3 to bad interactions between zero and dealers.
Less issue with the model bought in 2019 (changed to a better dealer - this is night and day) but i noticed a 15% reduction of the battery capacity after a couple of cold weather days). Need to check with my dealer how it goes...
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The first 13k km, my DSR ate belts. Like, a new one every 3000km or so. Whey I raised the issue for the 3rd time @ Zero, they replaced my belt wheels and belt and presto, belt lasted 26k km. Turned out there was a rough spot on the rear belt wheel slowly eating my belt...
Other than that: 2 sets brake pads and a set of tires in 40k km
Did you notice something while riding? Vibrations or something similar?
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Just a comment on Zero Support (I have already posted my technical issues further up this thread)
I can only comment on Zero UK as that's where I live but so far it has been disappointingly poor.
My bike was left at dealers to have it's Spiderbus replaced on 24 Feb, was told I'd hear from Zero UK country manager that afternoon to discuss the issue.
Heard nothing until the 3rd March (9 days later) which was a standard template email from Dale (the UK country manager) explaining that my bike would be getting a replacement part and he was sorry for the issues etc. The email said I would be getting a weekly update on progress.
I replied to Dale asking some additional questions etc. but I've heard nothing back, no promised weekly email update and no answers to my questions.
I emailed again on 13th March asking for some news/updates, still no reply.
The bike has been gone 21 days now and I've the only 'support' I've had was a generic email.
So, Zero UK support gets 1 out of 10 from me.
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BMW would have given you a loaner for the duration. I find that insisting on a free loaner while they undertake warranty work is a great encouragement to them to get it fixed sooner.
Cas :)
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BMW would have given you a loaner for the duration. I find that insisting on a free loaner while they undertake warranty work is a great encouragement to them to get it fixed sooner.
Cas :)
That is entirely up to the dealer, NOT BMW.
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BMW would have given you a loaner for the duration. I find that insisting on a free loaner while they undertake warranty work is a great encouragement to them to get it fixed sooner.
Cas :)
Sadly, they couldn't offer me a courtesy SR/F as their demo bike (which would have been the courtesy bike) also has the same issue and needs it's spiderbus replaced - but that one is at the back of the queue as they're trying to get the customer ones done first.
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BMW would have given you a loaner for the duration. I find that insisting on a free loaner while they undertake warranty work is a great encouragement to them to get it fixed sooner.
Cas :)
That is entirely up to the dealer, NOT BMW.
That's not strictly true - BMW expect a very high level of customer service from their franchise solus dealers, at least here in the UK anyway. They treat you almost like royalty in the showroom, which is a key reason why they've so massively increased their market share here in the last 20 years. Also a key reason I was exclusively with BMW for 20 years as well - I'd never been treated like an actual valuable customer before by any dealer. Bike goes wrong - they give you a loaner until it's fixed. BMW presumably reimburse the dealer if this is in response to warranty work (dealer charges BMW for the work), but even if they didn't, they got me as a customer for 2 decades as a result of the policy. It's a no-brainer for them.
Cas :)
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BMW would have given you a loaner for the duration. I find that insisting on a free loaner while they undertake warranty work is a great encouragement to them to get it fixed sooner.
Cas :)
Sadly, they couldn't offer me a courtesy SR/F as their demo bike (which would have been the courtesy bike) also has the same issue and needs it's spiderbus replaced - but that one is at the back of the queue as they're trying to get the customer ones done first.
Ah, any bike would do tbh, just so long as it keeps you reliably mobile.
Cas :)
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BMW would have given you a loaner for the duration. I find that insisting on a free loaner while they undertake warranty work is a great encouragement to them to get it fixed sooner.
Cas :)
Sadly, they couldn't offer me a courtesy SR/F as their demo bike (which would have been the courtesy bike) also has the same issue and needs it's spiderbus replaced - but that one is at the back of the queue as they're trying to get the customer ones done first.
Ah, any bike would do tbh, just so long as it keeps you reliably mobile.
Cas :)
Yes indeed. I'd prefer not to go back to an ICE motorcycle but you are right that I need something to keep me mobile.
I will be calling the dealer this week to discuss that very option ;)
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When you think about it your bike is depreciating at a rate of about £300 per month so you really want to be compensated for that in some way if it's unavailable for that amount of time...
Cas :)
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That's not strictly true - BMW expect a very high level of customer service from their franchise solus dealers, at least here in the UK anyway. They treat you almost like royalty in the showroom, which is a key reason why they've so massively increased their market share here in the last 20 years. Also a key reason I was exclusively with BMW for 20 years as well - I'd never been treated like an actual valuable customer before by any dealer. Bike goes wrong - they give you a loaner until it's fixed. BMW presumably reimburse the dealer if this is in response to warranty work (dealer charges BMW for the work), but even if they didn't, they got me as a customer for 2 decades as a result of the policy. It's a no-brainer for them.
Cas :)
Not true here in the States. BMW lost me as a customer a few years back because of their callous handling of an issue I had. And I've been riding their bike almost exclusively since 1985 and a member of their 400,000 mile club. Not anymore. They can all rot in hell for all I care; I'll never buy another product of theirs again no matter HOW many wheels it has.
I am STILL a customer of theirs until my 21 year old K1200LT with 220,000 miles on it finally bites the dust. They don't build them like that anymore; now they cater to those who replace their bikes every three or four years. I'm the "old-style BMW customer" who bought a BMW because I expected it to last. They stopped building them that way at the dawn of the 21st century which is why they are at the BOTTOM of Consumer Reports' Motorcycle Reliability rankings.
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Details here on my fall-out with BMW. Not going to repost here as it is way off topic.
https://www.majestyusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=10769#p309071
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...Which is why the BMW dealer I go to has about half of it filled with bikes that are recalled and unsalable.
But that doesn't mean their customer service is bad. It means they had trouble a few years ago after they changed their management and designs. Things happen.
-Crissa
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I am STILL a customer of theirs until my 21 year old K1200LT with 220,000 miles on it finally bites the dust. They don't build them like that anymore;
Is that the one with the reverse and automatic centerstand? I heard that is the most expensive bike there is to maintain, but a great bike when it's all working fine, but not expected to last all that long until major service is again required. I have known a few people who have owned the LTs.
BTW, I assume my battery replacement on my Zero DS under warranty qualifies as a "major problem", but I am very happy with their service besides now having the 7.2 KWH battery.
-Don- in rainy Auburn, CA
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I have been riding BMW motorcycles since 1985 and have never had a bad experience with my dealer, which is now called Calmoto. They now sell BMWs, Energicas, KTM and Vespas, but way back when, it was only BMW motorcycles. It is just too bad that they moved completely out of my area last fall.
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I have been riding BMW motorcycles since 1985 and have never had a bad experience with my dealer, which is now called Calmoto. They now sell BMWs, Energicas, KTM and Vespas, but way back when, it was only BMW motorcycles. It is just too bad that they moved completely out of my area last fall.
In Sparks, NV, the BMW shop, Sierra BMW (https://www.sierrabmw.com/) even sells high end electric bicycles. For the price of some of them, you can almost buy a Zero 7.2 KWH with several times the range and performance.
I hear only good stuff about their service on BMWs. But you can guess who pays for it. For an example, say you trade in a BMW to buy another new BMW. They will deduct the price of their complete servicing from their final offer unless you can prove it was done in the last 30 days or so. So then when they sell the used BMW, it was just fully serviced by their service department by the time they offer it for sale. I think that is a reasonable way to do it. I have heard of people buying used bikes from dealers that only had a cup or so of engine oil in them and such.
BTW, I purchased my BMW new in 1971 at Menlo Cycles in Menlo Park. Do you remember them?
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Details here on my fall-out with BMW. Not going to repost here as it is way off topic.
https://www.majestyusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=10769#p309071
Ow, that's mental. I had a Tmax a couple of years ago - and you're right, you should never have sold it! Though I did buy an X-Adv to replace mine, which is still currently all kinds of awesome :) But I kinda want another Tmax now... except I've promised myself my next bike will be electric, of course, hence being here....
Cas :)
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... even sells high end electric bicycles. For the price of some of them, you can almost buy a Zero 7.2 KWH with several times the range and performance.
Which is one of the reasons my spouse chose a Zero for me. The TCO of those bicycles has potential to be much lower, but they're also really hard to repair when something goes wrong. A Zero benefits from being a pretty standard motorcycle otherwise.
-Crissa
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I've experienced issues with tamper notifications on my 2020 Zero SR/F & SR/S. I have not received a notification from either bike when the bike is off, steering wheel is locked, and wheeled around in a circle by someone remotely. I cannot actually say I've never received a notification because I did get a random notification of someone tampering as I looked at the bike standing still. I would like to activate the tip over sensor to see if I get a notification that it has tipped over, but with a cost of the bike I'd rather not try it. My dealer is not sure what to tell me except they would ask their zero hero and get back to me but they never do. Other than that my experience with both SR/F and Sr/S are without complaint, except for the update sticking which the dealer manually updated during a service.
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Ironically I got both the "your bike is moving" and "your bike was dropped" notification while it was transported to Zero headquarters NL.
The moving notification is from sitting on the truck being moved. I only got that notification once a day. Transport took 2 days. I never got such a notification driving around with the bike in the back of my own van. So you can't be around, bike has to be shut down and I guess it has to be over a certain distance to make sure you don't get notifications all the time because of GPS location drift.
Being dropped was caused when they worked on my bike having the sensor removed from the bike (and putting it aside in a tipped over orientation). It was when they were replacing the bus spider at the back of the battery, slightly forward, below the riders seat. I think to access that you need to remove the complete subframe. So maybe the sensor is part of the subframe. Or could be in the tank also somewhere (higher up makes more sense) which also had to be removed.
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I am STILL a customer of theirs until my 21 year old K1200LT with 220,000 miles on it finally bites the dust. They don't build them like that anymore;
Is that the one with the reverse and automatic centerstand? I heard that is the most expensive bike there is to maintain, but a great bike when it's all working fine, but not expected to last all that long until major service is again required. I have known a few people who have owned the LTs.
The hydraulic centerstand came into play in 2005 and that is right at the beginning of when the bikes started going downhill. They also had that IDIOTIC power-assisted linked braking system. No, as you can see in my tagline below, I have the 1999 model. It has the reverse but it has the regular, manual, non-linked brakes and a regular,
manual centerstand.
2005 is also when they changed the saddle to make it easier to reach the ground at the expense of comfort when you were actually riding it because now it was too narrow for proper support. They changed the steering geometry a bit to address complaints of low speed handling at the expense of high speed stability. When the updates were first announced I thought of upgrading (who wouldn't want a hydraulic centerstand and 25% more horsepower?) but when I started reading the feedback from people who had made the jump, I decided to stick with what I had.
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So this just made me think. Jamie, your bike is a 1999 model. 21 years old and still running. My ICE bike is a 2005. 15 years old and it still runs great. I wonder what my new Zero would be like when it hits 15-20 years old. I am going to guess, it would be dead long before that. That is one thing I have to give to the old ICE bikes. They will outlast anything electric.
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But likely just the battery cells will be knackered by then, no? And I expect in 15 years' time, 14kWh of battery cells will probably cost about $500.
Cas :)
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Yeah, I agree. Mechanically, I can't see anything on our eBikes deteriorating that much. Zero says the battery should last five years or more and they consider the battery toast when it's only at 80% capacity. 80% is still quite usable for commuting duties, but who knows what the replacement battery technology will be like when it is time to replace it?
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Really it'll come down to availability of spares.
If we're honest though not many bikes see over 50k miles in their lifetime. Most get crashed (or blown up, or abused) long before they see retirement.
Cas :)
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The vast majority of bikes don't last that long, though, yeah.
Wiring corrosion will be a bit of a problem, since wires are small and a tiny amount of corrosion can do a connector massive damage.
-Crissa
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Well that really depends on use. For world travellers and commuters it's not uncommon at all. I (as a commuter, not world traveller :D) did 140.000 km on my BMW R1200 RT before replacing it for a BMW R1200 GS that now has 70.000 km and currently using the SR/F, getting close to 10.000 km (but now sars-cov-2 is stopping me).
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Back on topic: My 2016 S needed a new motor right at the end of the warranty period. It took almost a month for the part to arrive, but it was replaced at no charge. Had the bike not been totaled a few months after that, I'd probably still be riding it. Still, the fit and finish of my 2018 is just SO much better so things turned out well in the end.
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How does an electric motor fail? (Not exasperated sarcasm, genuinely interested in failure mode)
Cas :)
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How does an electric motor fail? (Not exasperated sarcasm, genuinely interested in failure mode)
Cas :)
On the electronic level. The most common issue with the SR/F so far is that it fails to work in rain. I had error 43 and and 31 popping up during rides and when wet it won't let me charge the bike with that error 43 "insulation error" and sometimes even not let me ride it.
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How does an electric motor fail? (Not exasperated sarcasm, genuinely interested in failure mode)
Cas :)
The bearing failed. It started making some HORRIBLE sounds. Not an uncommon problem. I've had bearing failures in CPU cooling fans and hard drives so I'm familiar with the symptoms. Those shouldn't fail either, but if the part moves, well...
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Is the bearing (a very cheap part) not easily replaceable independently of the motor (a rather more expensive part)?
Cas :)
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Don't know. Since Zero was replacing the whole motor at no cost to me, I didn't inquire any further.
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Bought a 2015 SR with 4.000 k (~2.500 miles) on it. No clue what happened during those first 4.000 kilometers.
1. Had "something" loose in the dashboard that got fixed under dealer warranty (6 months on a used bike). They opened the dash, removed the particle and closed it; done (https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9922.0;attach=12035)
2. After putting about 4.500 kilometer (2.800 miles) on the bike myself, it stopped charging.
Zero replaced the Charger for free even though the bike was past the warranty period (because most of these chargers will fail around the 8.000 kilometer (5.000 mile) mark). It took a total of about 4 weeks for the charger to arrive at the dealer and for them to install it; it did not help
Then they blamed the BMS and ordered a new one. It came in three weeks. They installed it; it did not help
Then the bike got shipped to Zero Europe and they replaced the battery (I now have a 13 instead of 12.5 KwH version); that fixed the problem
3. At around 10.000 kilometer (~6.200 miles) the throttle gave up. Total cost to replace 400 euro (~$440)
(https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9922.0;attach=12039)
I have little faith in the bike, but I love :-* :-* :-* to ride it still.
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I have little faith in the bike, but I love :-* :-* :-* to ride it still.
With all the new parts in it, it should be a bit more reliable. You've had to replace what, every probably problematic thing 'cept the kick stand sensor?
I had the blinker module fail. That's it, really.
-Crissa
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I have little faith in the bike, but I love :-* :-* :-* to ride it still.
With all the new parts in it, it should be a bit more reliable. You've had to replace what, every probably problematic thing 'cept the kick stand sensor?
I had the blinker module fail. That's it, really.
-Crissa
Waiting for the Sevon Controller and the engine to fail :P ................................
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2016 SR: My rear brake failed horrendously. The caliper bracket (the solid aluminum plate that holds the caliper on top of the swingarm) stress fractured on the bottom side, that keeps it in place if you were to brake slightly while walking the bike backward. It dragged my brake line with it and pinched it flat around the axle nut. The 2017 design is stronger than the 2016 as it is enclosed around the swingarm pin. I got the newer bracket and it was all covered under warranty. I do not believe this could ever happen while braking in the forward direction. I live on a VERY steep hill and need to back the bike out of my cluttered garage and need rear brake to leave (front brake only will slide front tire as not enough weight is on it facing uphill).
Aside from that, a wiring connector's seal and pin faceplate broke off for my charger. I had some water-related error codes. I get the Current Limited warnings and Isolation to Frame in logs occasionally. My cells seem to heat up more than others' Zeros when charging at lowish rates with external chargers. I'm currently looking at replacing swingarm bearings as I'm having a very, very strange belt tension issue that comes and goes (wayyyy above and below range). Oh, and those stock Pirellis were total garbage.
All in all I'm very impressed and happy with my bike, local dealer, and Zero as a whole.
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1.
SR/F MY2020 , 800 km : 12V battery is dead (dropped from 13 to < 5V in approx. 24 hours).
A 12V battery replacement at the dealer resulted again in a depleted battery in 24 hours.
The bike has some fused/sealed accessories on its 12V Sumitomo and SAE accessory ports (Gerbing heater, fog lights, camera, GPS), which I transferred from my total loss DSR.
As these accessories are fed by the DC/DC-converter (and hence are shut off when the bike is shut off) and to my knowledge have no direct correlation with the 12V battery, I would expect the DC/DC-converter (which takes care of the battery charge) to be involved in the issue.
Word is Zero is apparently looking into this ; the (new) bike has been at the dealer (who is dependent on Zero too) for the past 3 weeks.
I guess I need to categorize this as "Major problem" ; the verdict on Zero support is still out.
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I set my poll to be 30 days and it looks like that wasn't quite enough. Thanks to everyone who responded.
It appears from our little group that over 50% have problems. That is not an insignificant amount compared to any other motorcycle brand.
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I think most bikes (and vehicle purchases in general) have minor problems the first year of ownership. It kind of depends on how picky and attentive to details the owner is. I bet there isn't a bike out there that doesn't have factory over- and under- torqued fasteners, missing threadlocker, something misaligned, small scratches or tears, and other things amiss. There's always a TSB or an update somewhere to fix gripes. The response from the manufacturer/dealer support is all that matters to me. That being said, we have a fair bit of selection bias from the type of people that would sign up for a (wonderful) forum in 2020. Too bad we don't have some resource we all use that could be used to collect data from more owners (like an app or something..) [/end sarcasm]
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People who have problems are more likely to show up in a forum, and more likely to vote in a poll. You'd get the same in a Mazda owner's forum, too.
-Crissa
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People who have problems are more likely to show up in a forum, and more likely to vote in a poll. You'd get the same in a Mazda owner's forum, too.
Sure, but it's the way problems are handled by the manufacturer that is important, and which provides a good view on efficiency and customer care.
In my opinion, that is not relative (more dissatisfied customers answering to a poll and tipping it to the negative) but absolute (each and every - major - issue should be handled efficiently, or you get a dissatisfied customer).
10 out of 40 respondents (i was just too late to answer the poll :) ), or 25%, who had a major problem or another bad experience is staggering.
My brand new SR/F (800 km) has now been at the dealership (who stated two weeks ago they are waiting for an intervention from Zero Europe) for exactly a month (battery problem). I use this bike exclusively to travel to work.
I appreciate that there are mitigating factors in the current health crisis, but no status updates (hence me needing to guess whether COVID-19 is the culprit or Zero Europe is just sitting on its hands ; remember they're supposed to do remote diagnostics), is not something I appreciate
What is the value of technical excellence, if you're stranded and being kept into the dark, when that excellence fails ?
From my point of view, this is amateur hour, and a serious detriment in recommending Zero to fellow bikers.
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It's not staggering, for a self-selected pool in a forum. It's expected.
If you think this is amateur hour, you must think the largest companies on Earth are amateurs, since pretty much every one has had their help systems brought to its knees.
-Crissa
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Don't push me in the 'whining customer' corner.
I already clearly stated I sympathize (our businesses are affected by this too, like about everyone).
May be they're prioritizing their logistics for building and shipping new bikes instead of servicing. Who knows ?
But :
1. Zero performs remote diagnosis at the dealership. Is this affected by the current crisis ?
2. If they are unable or delayed in providing support/service, why not inform the customer ?
It is not as if they have tens to hundreds of bikes to service in the field. I hope.
Reports of bikes taking ages to service, without hardly any feedback, date from before COVID-19.
It is actually one of the question items in this poll.
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There are many stories on this forum about Zero taking months to solve issues with customers, albeit many of them outside of America. While it's nice that dealer and Zero support exist, I'd rather have a reliable bike any day of the week. Support means nothing if it constantly breaks, strands you out in the middle of the street, or worse, is a safety hazard when something goes bad.
I did buy a new Zero FXS and it makes me somewhat happy to hear less stories about that model than all others combined, however it can still be worrisome knowing that if anything goes wrong short a belt breaking, you're pretty much not able to fix it yourself. Zero should sell their chargers or other problematic components at reasonable prices, and let the public (out of warranty) who are willing to fix it, do it.
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Don't push me in the 'whining customer' corner.
You started there.
1. Zero performs remote diagnosis at the dealership. Is this affected by the current crisis ?
Yes. All of their personnel have to work from home right now. Which means an already imperfect system where things can get dropped is being done remotely through phone-trees.
2. If they are unable or delayed in providing support/service, why not inform the customer ?
Do you really want an email from every company you've registered a device from right now telling you they're responding to a pandemic? That seems unreasonable and I've already gotten dozens.
[quote)It is not as if they have tens to hundreds of bikes to service in the field. I hope.[/quote]
Who knows? The best evidence we have sold thousands of bikes. If just one percent need service at any one time, yes, that would be dozens of bikes.
Reports of bikes taking ages to service, without hardly any feedback, date from before COVID-19.
It is actually one of the question items in this poll.
What defines 'ages' and 'feedback'? How does this differ from say, BMW? That's what matters.
Their handling seems no different than any other manufacturer I have dealt with; Honda, Toyota, Lexus, Mazda. And on top of that they're a relatively tiny company.
-Crissa
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There are many stories on this forum about Zero taking months to solve issues with customers, albeit many of them outside of America. While it's nice that dealer and Zero support exist, I'd rather have a reliable bike any day of the week. Support means nothing if it constantly breaks, strands you out in the middle of the street, or worse, is a safety hazard when something goes bad.
I did buy a new Zero FXS and it makes me somewhat happy to hear less stories about that model than all others combined, however it can still be worrisome knowing that if anything goes wrong short a belt breaking, you're pretty much not able to fix it yourself. Zero should sell their chargers or other problematic components at reasonable prices, and let the public (out of warranty) who are willing to fix it, do it.
You gotta remember that some of the stories on here are incomplete and missing key details. Service really comes down to the dealer level. If your dealer sits on the bike for a month or is just unorganized, they can always blame Zero. Zero has a tech support email and phone number, and I have never failed to get a response in a day or two, This is from the dealer perspective. Things happen, parts go missing, and things get missed, but I much prefer them over some of the other manufacturers. COVID-19 has got everything and everyone delayed, and that can hardly be blamed on them.
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Don't push me in the 'whining customer' corner.
You started there.
I surely value your resolute approach, for what it's worth, but read again what I wrote :
"... the verdict on Zero support is still out ..."
"... I appreciate that there are mitigating factors in the current health crisis ..."
1. Zero performs remote diagnosis at the dealership. Is this affected by the current crisis ?
Yes. All of their personnel have to work from home right now. Which means an already imperfect system where things can get dropped is being done remotely through phone-trees.
An already imperfect system : that is what it's all about.
2. If they are unable or delayed in providing support/service, why not inform the customer ?
Do you really want an email from every company you've registered a device from right now telling you they're responding to a pandemic? That seems unreasonable and I've already gotten dozens.
Let's try to stay on-topic : my SR/F battery issue dates from before COVID-19.
But I appreciate you defending Zero so vigorously : I sympathize with them as much as probably anyone on the forum, otherwise I wouldn't have bought 40 k€ of their gear.
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2. If they are unable or delayed in providing support/service, why not inform the customer ?
It is not as if they have tens to hundreds of bikes to service in the field. I hope.
I received an email letter from Zero Europe on 20MAR2020 informing their clientele what they are doing and what the impact of COVID-19 is on their operations.
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in 39000 km gl' unici problemi sono stati , cinghia strappata dopo atterraggio su un salto su strada asfaltata, ma se sarei stato + accorto non sarebbe successo, ora
conosco il punto debole e stato molto attento, cmq la cinghia l'ho cambiata io,
poi avevo eseguito l'ultimo aggiornamento, ma è andato in default per cui ho caricato la moto , portata al concessionario fino a milano e in 10 minuti la moto era ok. ora problemino lieve del cuscinetto da cambiare appena cambio pneumatico posteriore , cambio anche il cuscinetto.
problema maggiore , MA è lo PER TUTTI NOI il coronavirus che ci blocca la moto in garage , ciao a tutti e teniamo duro che passa.
forza Zero
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I received an email letter from Zero Europe on 20MAR2020 informing their clientele what they are doing and what the impact of COVID-19 is on their operations.
It is probably out of scope for this thread, but would you care to share the letter (perhaps in a new thread) ?
It may be of interest to forum members who didn't receive the email.
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This is the full message (in French)
Chère Communauté Zero,
L’une des parties les plus gratifiantes en tant qu’entreprise spécialisée dans les motos et composée de motards, est le sentiment d’appartenance qui se développe lorsque l’on roule aux côtés d’autres passionnés. C’est donc animés d’un grand souci pour la santé et la sécurité de nos riders et employés que nous avons pris les dispositions suivantes pour combattre la propagation du COVID-19.
Nous avons préparé nos opérations de manière à ce que la plupart de nos employés au siège EMEA et dans les bureaux externes puissent commencer à travailler à distance.
Nos bureaux et le Centre de Services Usine de Hollande sont nettoyés de manière régulière, de même que toutes les motos, pièces et accessoires sont à nouveau désinfectés avant la mise en caisson et l’envoi.
Toutes les équipes dédiées au support client sont équipées des outils nécessaires pour leur permettre de continuer à fournir une assistance technique et des diagnostiques à distance depuis leur lieu de travail.
Nous encourageons vivement les motards à se familiariser avec les processus de téléchargement de diagnostiques à distance, qu’il soit automatique, comme sur les SR/F et SR/S, ou via l’application Zero Motorcycles pour les autres modèles.
Nous implémentons des procédures qui nous permettent de nous assurer que nous serons en mesure de fournir les pièces nécessaires aux éventuelles réparations. En fonction des volumes et fluctuations, il se pourrait que nous accusions un léger délai dans l’envoi de ce type de pièces en raison de la réduction de nos effectifs sur site. Nous nous efforçons de parer à toute éventualité durant cette période, et vous remercions par avance de votre patience.
Nous continuerons à suivre la situation, nos équipes, chaînes d’approvisionnement, et opérations globales pour s’ajuster au mieux aux évolutions de cette situation.
Merci à vous d’être une partie essentielle de la communauté Zero Motorcycles.
Par-dessus tout, n’oubliez pas de prendre toutes les mesures nécessaires pour vous protéger, vous, ainsi que vos familles.
Nous espérons que toute la communauté Zero Motorcycles, ainsi que toutes les populations, traverseront cette période complexe de la meilleure des manières.
Umberto Uccelli
Directeur Général de Zero Motorcycles EMEA
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Thanks for posting, Hans ; did you need to subscribe to a mailing list of some kind ?
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I received this via E-Mail on March 16:
Dear Zero Motorcycles Community,
We are a motorcycle company comprised of motorcyclists. One of the most rewarding parts of that culture is the community and camaraderie that comes from sharing the open road with fellow enthusiasts. It’s with the utmost concern for the health and safety of our riders, employees, and areas in which we all ride that we have taken the following steps to combat the spread of the novel coronavirus, COVID-19, and to ensure that the hundreds of employees we have are not subjecting themselves or their families to any undue risks during this pandemic.
Among other actions, we have taken the following steps to our global operations that will mitigate the impact that COVID-19 pandemic has on our communities-
We’ve prepared our operations for all employees at our Global Headquarters and satellite offices not directly involved with production to begin working remotely.
Ingress and egress to and from our production facility has been outfitted with wash basins and sanitation stations.
Our production facility is being routinely cleaned with disinfectant specifically designed to kill the novel coronavirus and all motorcycles, parts, and accessories are again disinfected prior to crating and shipment.
To ensure there is no incentive for Zero employees to work when ill, all of our employees are being provided with 14 days of paid sick leave in the event they experience any symptoms and need to be self-quarantined.
All customer support teams are equipped with the tools necessary to continue providing technical assistance and remote diagnostics from their alternate working locations.
As a fortunate consequence of the nature of our technology, we encourage riders to familiarize themselves with the process of remote diagnostics uploads, either automatically on SR/F and SR/S or via the Zero Motorcycles App for all other models.
We are implementing procedures to ensure we can continue to quickly provide programmed service parts for needed repairs. Depending on volume fluctuations, we may have a slight delay in the shipment of such parts orders as a result of our reduction of on-site staff and we’re grateful for your patience as we work through any bottlenecks that may occur during this time.
We will continue to monitor the situation, our teams, supply chains, and overall operations to adjust these countermeasures as required as the situation unfolds.
Thank you for being an essential part of the Zero Motorcycles community. Weathering any storm is possible with the passionate support of people like you. Most importantly, though, please remember to take the steps you deem necessary to protect yourself and your families.
We look forward to everyone in the Zero Motorcycles community and beyond making it through this disruptive period as safely and securely as possible.
Ride on,
Zero Motorcycles
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'16 DSR, 29,400 miles
Motor bearing issue started around 20k - posted here https://www.facebook.com/groups/zmcowners/permalink/2339687216100473/
The bike still rides fine, and the noise comes and goes - and I can feel the slight tapping friction in the foot pegs as I ride, I'm sure it's a matter of time before I've got to fork up $2k for a new motor
At this point it seems like my range has decreased heavily, I ride it hard but -60 miles on a single charge is nothing compared to the first couple of years I had the bike. I am waiting for summer time to confirm, maybe it's just cold in my morning rides (still +50F) and I'm riding it harder than I used to.
Beyond those 2 issues I wouldn't trade my experience w/ the DSR for any other bike
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2015 Zero SR ~30.000
1. Dash dead - water in it - warranty
2. Melted charge port - warranty
3. Brake fluid overfilled at the factory and leaked on the bodywork and stained the plastic - warranty and upgraded to from plastic to painted plastics
4. Dash dead again- water in it - warranty
5. Onboard charger died - warranty
6. Bike shutting down while riding - ignition replaced - warranty
7. Battery loss of range - warranty upgraded from old 12.5 kWh to 14.4
8. Errors - bike will not move - after two tows and ~2 months waiting on a BMS board -- warranty
9. Belt teeth broke off at about 1000 miles past its lifetime expectation - replaced it myself
Besides that, she runs great ;D
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That may be a new record! That there is still a smile on your face is a testament to how fun these bikes are to ride.
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2015 Zero SR ~30.000
1. Dash dead - water in it - warranty
2. Melted charge port - warranty
3. Brake fluid overfilled at the factory and leaked on the bodywork and stained the plastic - warranty and upgraded to from plastic to painted plastics
4. Dash dead again- water in it - warranty
5. Onboard charger died - warranty
6. Bike shutting down while riding - ignition replaced - warranty
7. Battery loss of range - warranty upgraded from old 12.5 kWh to 14.4
8. Errors - bike will not move - after two tows and ~2 months waiting on a BMS board -- warranty
9. Belt teeth broke off at about 1000 miles past its lifetime expectation - replaced it myself
Besides that, she runs great ;D
Dash, charger, BMS...sounds common! Assuming Zero would even allow us to buy these components separately, I wonder how easy it is to replace them.
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2015 Zero SR ~30.000
1. Dash dead - water in it - warranty
2. Melted charge port - warranty
3. Brake fluid overfilled at the factory and leaked on the bodywork and stained the plastic - warranty and upgraded to from plastic to painted plastics
4. Dash dead again- water in it - warranty
5. Onboard charger died - warranty
6. Bike shutting down while riding - ignition replaced - warranty
7. Battery loss of range - warranty upgraded from old 12.5 kWh to 14.4
8. Errors - bike will not move - after two tows and ~2 months waiting on a BMS board -- warranty
9. Belt teeth broke off at about 1000 miles past its lifetime expectation - replaced it myself
Besides that, she runs great ;D
Dash, charger, BMS...sounds common! Assuming Zero would even allow us to buy these components separately, I wonder how easy it is to replace them.
The Dash has the odometer miles/km, so that would need to to be reset else people would be reduce the miles on their Zero.
One of the reasons that I was waiting ~2 months on a BMS is because - according to what I was told - the BMS needs to be programed according to each motorcycle and they sent the wrong one originally, it was over the holidays and there was issues with shipping at zero.
Zero should take any big ticket parts reliability issues that are unique to EVs very seriously. Battery, Motor, Controllers, BMS, chargers. Owners with issues to these parts may just quit Zero and EVs all together.
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Exactly. Anything Zero specific (ie Extremely Zero specific) should be stocked readily and available. Without Zero Corporate support, these motorcycles literally become paperweights.
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2017 DSR, 20k miles
Purchased September 2017
1) driving in the rain causes the bike to not start once stopped. Park and wait a day for it to dry out and it runs again. Lesson... don't ride in the rain or don't turn if off until you get home if you do get caught in the rain.
2) In spring first year, main board failed, rode for about a month after weather got warm then main board failed - fixed under warranty - took 2 months
3) In spring of second year, went to charge the bike for first ride and it wouldn't charge - charge circuit bad - fixed under warranty - took 2 months
4) In fall of second year, voltage difference error appeared after charging - BMS circuit replaced - fixed under warranty - took 4 months
5) In spring of 3rd year, same voltage error appeared after charging - charge tank battery grounding plate replaced - fixed under warranty - took 3 months
6) In spring of 4th year, got pulled over for no lights. DC-DC converter failed - $971 to replace - took 6 weeks
So far I have yet to get to drive this bike for the full summer since I have bought it. Every time I get caught in a rain storm, the bike is down for a few days drying out. Fortunately I have a 2016 BMW 1200GSA that has yet to have any problems.
Buying the zero was the biggest mistake I have made in buying a vehicle. I love it when it runs, but it seems to spend more time in the shop than under my butt. I asked about trade and the dealer offered $4k.
What a disappointment.
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I owned two Zero's, one DSR and currently a SR/F.
The DSR needed a replacement of the dashboard and charger module.
The SR/F suffered some electrical fault after driving in the rain, and had to be fixed. Also got a note about a factory recall on the brake light indicator as well. All fixed under warranty.
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2017 DSR, 20k miles
Purchased September 2017
1) driving in the rain causes the bike to not start once stopped.
Yours has a problem. Both of my 2017's have been in pouring rain several times. My DS left outside in the rain overnight countless times during my RV trips. Never had any issue with them running being soaking wet.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Might I add: Depreciation of the bikes. Mine was 21k euro when I bought it 6 years ago and the standing offer from a Zero dealer is 3500 euro's, adding up to 243 euro per MONTH of usage. Or, in km's, it's 35 cents per kilometer. Rediculous if you ask me.
When you go buy the bike, the dealers are like 'These batteries go on forever, no worries, blah blah' but when you come back to sell the bike it's 'The battery is out of warranty, we know they get bad then, blah blah'... I feel a bit ripped off tbh. I'd expect it to be more around the 7k mark, still a lot of depreciation but that's what you pay for buying something where the tech goes so fast newer models have better batteries and such. But 3500......
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I've got a mere 2500 miles in just under a year on a 2021 SR. The only problem it's had is one day when the BMS decided to stop communicating with the rest of the bike. It magically woke up a day later and hasn't been a problem since. Other than the lack of support from Zero beyond "bring it to a dealer," which is over 200 miles away, the bike itself has been great.
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2016 SR purchased 2018 brand new.
-Kickstand sensor failed
-been through 1 or 2 belts already from road debris
-Rear brake caliper bracket snapped (damaging brake line)
-Swingarm bearing is notchy now
-Front forks probably need service as stiction has increased
-Battery heats up MUCH more easily now but balance and range seem fine. Throttle cutbacks are a bit more common now, starting at slightly higher SOC but I have warranty until 2023 so I'm riding like crazy now
-Front temporary bright headlight switch is hard to push now
-been through 2 sets of brake pads so far just commuting. wish regen was stronger but not modding it yet.
Honestly very happy, most of this is routine service stuff. Switches go bad, bearings wear out. In line with my expectations of the bike so far and I enjoy it. The brake line bracket was a design "flaw"/weakness that was fixed in 2017.
My absolute biggest gripes with Zero are the amount of heat the stock charger used to put into my battery (sometimes cutting off charge early on a cool day) and the safety oversight of not having a backup 12V battery. If the bike cuts off on you to protect the battery, you have no 12v lights or horn which is just so stupid and dangerous.
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2016 SR purchased 2018 brand new.
-Kickstand sensor failed
-been through 1 or 2 belts already from road debris
-Rear brake caliper bracket snapped (damaging brake line)
-Swingarm bearing is notchy now
-Front forks probably need service as stiction has increased
-Battery heats up MUCH more easily now but balance and range seem fine. Throttle cutbacks are a bit more common now, starting at slightly higher SOC but I have warranty until 2023 so I'm riding like crazy now
-Front temporary bright headlight switch is hard to push now
-been through 2 sets of brake pads so far just commuting. wish regen was stronger but not modding it yet.
Honestly very happy, most of this is routine service stuff. Switches go bad, bearings wear out. In line with my expectations of the bike so far and I enjoy it. The brake line bracket was a design "flaw"/weakness that was fixed in 2017.
My absolute biggest gripes with Zero are the amount of heat the stock charger used to put into my battery (sometimes cutting off charge early on a cool day) and the safety oversight of not having a backup 12V battery. If the bike cuts off on you to protect the battery, you have no 12v lights or horn which is just so stupid and dangerous.
How many miles / KM on it?
On my 2017 DS, I had a bad battery during warranty which was good news as my 6.5k KW battery was replaced with a 7.2 KWH. Time in shop was around three weeks.
On my 2017 Zero SR, I had a bad front brake ABS sensor. I replaced that myself at my cost even though the bike was then still in warranty. I didn't want to bother with bringing the bike in for that.
Those were the only issues I have had. Around 15,000 miles (24,000KM) on each bike. Original belts on both.
I had the issue on a VERY hot day (104F/40C )where I could not charge during a ride. I then didn't know about turning off the OBC and only using my external chargers, which would have been a lot better.
-Don- Reno, NV
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2016 Zero FX with several problems over six years:
- I noticed the tires leak air and I've had to add some, more than a dozen times.
- The tires themselves went bad after only 7,000 miles and had to be replaced.
- The brake pads and rotor failed to maintain adequate thickness. They also had to be replaced.
- The brake fluid may be absorbing water from the air and I fear it will have to be replaced someday.
- It keeps running out of electricity and I have to plug it in quite often.
NONE of this was covered under warranty.
In all seriousness, the only thing that has gone wrong was front spokes breaking repeatedly. I re-laced them with heavier ones.
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Don, just checked and a measly 13,000 miles after 4 years with most of that riding being the first year. I didn't ride much during peak COVID as I lost some family in traffic accidents.
I also go through tires every 3,000-6,000 miles. The stock Pirelli diablo rosso IIs were super dangerous IMO but my Bridgestone S20 Evos have amazing traction in the wet and a stiff carcass where if you were to get a puncture you feel safer. I've not needed to add any air to them since 2021. If I get 60,000 miles out of my bike I will have broken even on cost with gasoline alone.
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I don't seem able to post a new topic in this forum (been a member for a long time)
My 2015 SR had a main bike board fail, after the local dealer went bust and then Zero pulled out of Australia, got it fixed by email (he would email me instructions of what to test and I would email the results, just using a multimeter) with a tech from the US under warranty.
Now after 7 years and only 54,000 km the battery seems to be failing, top speed is about 100 km/h but only on 100% SOC and only for the first 30 seconds then it slows down slowly until it hits 90 km/h. Outside temp of about 10 C (about 50 F)
At 70% SOC it can only maintain 79 km/h. Almost unrideable.
On a day of, say 25 C, it can maintain over 100 km/h (or it did when it was summer)
When it's been sitting for a while and I turn it on I get EEE on the display for about 1 second.
My guess is one module falls below voltage compared to the others but once the contactors join them all together the higher voltage ones bring up the lower voltage one and the error disappears. The BMS is detecting the weak cell/s and limiting power.
The odd thing is it can accurate as fast as ever up to the max speed as outlined above with the gauge showing full torque and power to that point then you can see, and feel, the BMS cut the power.
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I don't seem able to post a new topic in this forum (been a member for a long time)
My 2015 SR had a main bike board fail, after the local dealer went bust and then Zero pulled out of Australia, got it fixed by email (he would email me instructions of what to test and I would email the results, just using a multimeter) with a tech from the US under warranty.
Now after 7 years and only 54,000 km the battery seems to be failing, top speed is about 100 km/h but only on 100% SOC and only for the first 30 seconds then it slows down slowly until it hits 90 km/h. Outside temp of about 10 C (about 50 F)
At 70% SOC it can only maintain 79 km/h. Almost unrideable.
On a day of, say 25 C, it can maintain over 100 km/h (or it did when it was summer)
When it's been sitting for a while and I turn it on I get EEE on the display for about 1 second.
My guess is one module falls below voltage compared to the others but once the contactors join them all together the higher voltage ones bring up the lower voltage one and the error disappears. The BMS is detecting the weak cell/s and limiting power.
The odd thing is it can accurate as fast as ever up to the max speed as outlined above with the gauge showing full torque and power to that point then you can see, and feel, the BMS cut the power.
Since the battery is out of warranty, you could always get your hands on an IXXAT cable and reprogram the Sevcon to ignore the current limiting commands from the BMS. That would at least let the motor/controller draw what it can. The BMS protects the weakest cells even from voltage sag from high current draw, which isn't necessarily dangerous for the battery for the same reason that short duration charging of well over 1C isn't dangerous either. I've seen at least one study evaluating the effect of regen breaking up to 1.6C that showed the increased regen actually reduced battery degradation, it's thought due to the reduction in cycle depth. That said, if you have sufficient cell imbalance and run your battery low enough with sufficiently high current draw over a long enough period, you could brick your battery. I think the BMS will open the contactor if a cell gets dangerously low though, so there might still be some protection at play.