ElectricMotorcycleForum.com

Tech => Parts, Mods And Hacks => Topic started by: motorrad36 on January 30, 2020, 11:46:06 PM

Title: Can this cable be modified to suit our needs?
Post by: motorrad36 on January 30, 2020, 11:46:06 PM
Someone is selling this cable locally. I see the non jplug side has black/white/green wires, and then a smaller blue wire. The brand is chargepoint, and it was salvaged from a defective charge station. Can the wire ends be modified to go into a NEMA plug so I can have a cheap RV park charger?
Title: Re: Can this cable be modified to suit our needs?
Post by: TEV on January 31, 2020, 12:59:03 AM
If you have a Charge tank,  no. If you have a DigiNow system,  yes.
Title: Re: Can this cable be modified to suit our needs?
Post by: Crissa on January 31, 2020, 02:22:30 AM
It would need part of the communication system to work as a true J-plug.  It might work otherwise to carry 240v in a non-standard way, but it's a needed part to build your own adapter.

-Crissa
Title: Re: Can this cable be modified to suit our needs?
Post by: motorrad36 on January 31, 2020, 03:03:58 AM
If you have a Charge tank,  no. If you have a DigiNow system,  yes.

I do on my SR. Can you elaborate on how that would work?
Title: Re: Can this cable be modified to suit our needs?
Post by: Crissa on January 31, 2020, 03:16:11 AM
https://www.google.com/search?q=j1772+wiring+diagram

-Crissa
Title: Re: Can this cable be modified to suit our needs?
Post by: TEV on January 31, 2020, 06:21:20 AM
If you have a Charge tank,  no. If you have a DigiNow system,  yes.

I do on my SR. Can you elaborate on how that would work?

I don't understand,  do you have a Charge tank, or a DigiNow?
Title: Re: Can this cable be modified to suit our needs?
Post by: motorrad36 on January 31, 2020, 06:25:59 AM
If you have a Charge tank,  no. If you have a DigiNow system,  yes.

I do on my SR. Can you elaborate on how that would work?

I don't understand,  do you have a Charge tank, or a DigiNow?

...that would've been pertinent wouldn't it?  ;D I have a 6.6kW diginow
Title: Re: Can this cable be modified to suit our needs?
Post by: TEV on January 31, 2020, 06:50:08 AM
If you have a Charge tank,  no. If you have a DigiNow system,  yes.

I do on my SR. Can you elaborate on how that would work?

I don't understand,  do you have a Charge tank, or a DigiNow?

...that would've been pertinent wouldn't it?  ;D I have a 6.6kW diginow

DigiNow  is using a J1772  plug, but isn't  using the J1772 protocol.  So all you have to do is to install the plug that you want on that open end, and you are good to go. YOU HAVE TO BE SURE THAT THE OUTLET THAT YOU ARE PLUGGING IN CAN PROVIDE 6.6KW.
Title: Re: Can this cable be modified to suit our needs?
Post by: motorrad36 on January 31, 2020, 10:52:24 PM

DigiNow  is using a J1772  plug, but isn't  using the J1772 protocol.  So all you have to do is to install the plug that you want on that open end, and you are good to go. YOU HAVE TO BE SURE THAT THE OUTLET THAT YOU ARE PLUGGING IN CAN PROVIDE 6.6KW.

I received the same tip from the seller when I bought it. I have the LightBlue app and according to the seller you can change the kW via this app. He showed me that he had previously ratcheted it down to 5kW in the code on the app.

The point of this cable is to plug in at RV parks (or anywhere there is no public charging stations), which are capable of 50A @ 240v. It obviously wouldn't pull that many amps, but @ 240v I pull 27.5A for 6.6kW. I would also get a polarity tester, as I've also heard that some RV hookups are old infrastructure and can trip breakers because of the heat.
Title: Re: Can this cable be modified to suit our needs?
Post by: TEV on February 01, 2020, 02:45:25 AM

DigiNow  is using a J1772  plug, but isn't  using the J1772 protocol.  So all you have to do is to install the plug that you want on that open end, and you are good to go. YOU HAVE TO BE SURE THAT THE OUTLET THAT YOU ARE PLUGGING IN CAN PROVIDE 6.6KW.

I received the same tip from the seller when I bought it. I have the LightBlue app and according to the seller you can change the kW via this app. He showed me that he had previously ratcheted it down to 5kW in the code on the app.

The point of this cable is to plug in at RV parks (or anywhere there is no public charging stations), which are capable of 50A @ 240v. It obviously wouldn't pull that many amps, but @ 240v I pull 27.5A for 6.6kW. I would also get a polarity tester, as I've also heard that some RV hookups are old infrastructure and can trip breakers because of the heat.

If you're talking about the cable in the picture, then that seller is lying.  That cable is just like an extension cord  with a J1772  plug at one end. There are no electronics,  and no app can control electrical wires. Luckily,  your charging system  is not using the  J1772 protocol , so you can use it like that.
Title: Re: Can this cable be modified to suit our needs?
Post by: TheRan on February 01, 2020, 03:09:04 AM
He's talking about the Diginows, you can control them over bluetooth and alter the charging rate.
Title: Re: Can this cable be modified to suit our needs?
Post by: Doug S on February 01, 2020, 03:15:53 AM
If you're talking about the cable in the picture, then that seller is lying.  That cable is just like an extension cord  with a J1772  plug at one end. There are no electronics,  and no app can control electrical wires. Luckily,  your charging system  is not using the  J1772 protocol , so you can use it like that.

That's not how I interpret it. The heavy-gauge wires (green, white and black) are earth ground and two hot phases of the 240VAC, respectively, and the smaller-gauge blue wire is the "pilot" wire. The J1772 signalling protocol is dead simple, and often a single resistor is all that's required to "support" it on the EV side. The "proximity" signal is often ignored, and unless your vehicle (or charger) requires it, isn't necessary. It's intended to let the EV (or the charger) know that the button on the connector has been depressed, probably indicating that removal of the AC power is imminent. But generally speaking, most chargers/EVs don't really care. If AC power is present, charge.

https://openev.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/6000052074-basics-of-sae-j1772
Title: Re: Can this cable be modified to suit our needs?
Post by: motorrad36 on February 01, 2020, 04:46:47 AM

If you're talking about the cable in the picture, then that seller is lying.  That cable is just like an extension cord  with a J1772  plug at one end. There are no electronics,  and no app can control electrical wires. Luckily,  your charging system  is not using the  J1772 protocol , so you can use it like that.

Sorry, maybe I am giving half responses, leading to confusion. MY goal for this cable is to attach a NEMA 14-50 connector on end with the wires sticking out. I am thinking, since the diginow does not use the j1772 protocol like you said, that blue pilot wire is not needed at all. If I find a chargepoint or whatever-brand jplug station, great. There are gaps in the network though, and in those gaps are often multiple RV parks. This cable would really only be a backup in the event I cannot reach a public charging station. I have seen a j1772 to 14-50 cable (from the seller of the SR w/diginow) but he said it cost him around $500. I am on a bit tighter of a budget, so I was hoping this cheap (only in price, not in quality, if it is branded from chargepoint it should be quite robust, right?) cable could be modified to serve the same purpose.
Title: Re: Can this cable be modified to suit our needs?
Post by: Crissa on February 01, 2020, 05:06:53 AM
$500 gets you a full timed j-station.  https://www.tucsonev.com/TucsonEV-SE.html

I'm sure this guy would make you a 50a rv plug to Zero diginow adapter using a j-plug for about $150.

-Crissa
Title: Re: Can this cable be modified to suit our needs?
Post by: motorrad36 on February 01, 2020, 05:12:55 AM
$500 gets you a full timed j-station.  https://www.tucsonev.com/TucsonEV-SE.html

I'm sure this guy would make you a 50a rv plug to Zero diginow adapter using a j-plug for about $150.

-Crissa

I'm actually waiting on a response from Rush right now! but what if I told you I could diy it with this cable i found for ~$30?
Title: Re: Can this cable be modified to suit our needs?
Post by: Crissa on February 01, 2020, 05:20:38 AM
The expensive part is the cable you have in your hand.

-Crissa
Title: Re: Can this cable be modified to suit our needs?
Post by: motorrad36 on February 01, 2020, 05:23:29 AM
The expensive part is the cable you have in your hand.

-Crissa

Yeah, and it only set me back $20 and a nice ride  8)
Title: Re: Can this cable be modified to suit our needs?
Post by: ESokoloff on February 01, 2020, 08:13:52 AM
...............

The heavy-gauge wires (green, white and black) are earth ground and two hot phases of the 240VAC, respectively, ...........

This would not be to code.
White is Neutral & MUST Not be hot!!!!

Of course a roll of black tape will easily remedy that (cover all traces of white insulation).
Title: Re: Can this cable be modified to suit our needs?
Post by: Crissa on February 01, 2020, 11:33:55 AM
They're not both black because they're opposite of each other.

-Crissa
Title: Re: Can this cable be modified to suit our needs?
Post by: ESokoloff on February 03, 2020, 12:00:09 AM
They're not both black because they're opposite of each other.

-Crissa

I’m not aware of any code violation of having both hots black but it is a code violation to have a hot white.
If you have an issue with two black hots, use a different colored tape (other then green which is reserved for ground only).

Note: I’m in the USA.
Title: Re: Can this cable be modified to suit our needs?
Post by: Crissa on February 03, 2020, 03:06:13 AM
It's 250v, you can't use the same color choices as 120v.  They need to be able to be differentiated if they're on different phases in the same wire.

White - inside a wire - may be on the hot side side of a circuit such as when you wire devices on a switch or multi-switch in series.

-Crissa
Title: Re: Can this cable be modified to suit our needs?
Post by: ESokoloff on February 03, 2020, 04:03:05 AM
Done
Title: Re: Can this cable be modified to suit our needs?
Post by: ESokoloff on February 03, 2020, 04:19:14 AM
Done

I lied....

One more/last attempt at this
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_wiring_in_North_America#Wiring_methods
Title: Re: Can this cable be modified to suit our needs?
Post by: Crissa on February 03, 2020, 06:09:42 AM
Quote
... In 240-volt applications not requiring a neutral conductor, the white wire may be used as the second hot conductor, but must be recolored with tape or by some other method.[citation needed] Four-wire flexible equipment connection cords have red as the fourth color; ...

Where would you even modify the wire color?  It'll be inside a NEMA plug.  Not a work box.

-Crissa