ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: DonTom on January 14, 2020, 10:40:06 PM
-
Perhaps I will try to make it, but I may not be able to. Don't know yet. I could be stuck here in Reno past that date, with other things I need to do here.
But I wold like to make it if I can, I just received this email:
Don, happy new year!
We're having an event on Saturday January 18th for BMW, KTM and Energica !
Energica will display the 21.5kWh bikes at our Livermore location. They'll have the Ribelle, Ego Plus and Esse Esse 9 Plus bikes. They're early pre-production editions that you can see and sit on and compare to the 13.4 kWh bikes. Laurence and Stefano (and maybe Chris-electric bike mechanic wunderkind for Energica) will be there to talk about Energica too.
I hope you can attend and have a cold drink and talk about motorcycles(hopefully I will be able to chat too!).
Have a great day!
Arlie Ray Blackshear
Adventure Agent
CalMoto Livermore
BMW KTM Vespa Energica
V A N D E R H A L L
952 North Canyons Parkway
Livermore, CA 94551
Ofc: 952-583-3333 Direct
Sales:925-583-3300 ext 3
Text: 408-478-8042
arlieray@calmoto.com
-Don- Reno, NV
-
LOL...I need to talk to Arlie about his form "letter". I will probably go but I don't know exactly what time of day I'll be there and I'll only be there about an hour at the most.
It's part of a larger open house for CalMoto, so not just an Energica event:
CalMoto Livermore
952 North Canyons Parkway
Livermore,
94551
USA
Join us on January 18th for an Opoen House event at our consolidated locaton in Livermore. we will have live demonstrations for BMW Ambassodor Shawn Thomas, Product demonstrations, food, prizes and an awesome Sale! See you then!
-
Don,
Thanks for posting the heads up.
I see the time is 1000-1600 per their website event calendar.
I expect to be there.
-
I think I will be able to make it also, I will just have to rush back to Reno within a couple of days.
I expect to be there in the afternoon as I will have more than 100 miles of a ride from Auburn.
I will take an ICE bike for that trip from Auburn to Livermore. Probably my Moto Guzzi.
I have my Energica here in Reno and a lot of snow is coming over the summit on Thursday. It will probably be wet and icy on Friday. I will go between here and Auburn with four wheels and from Auburn to Livermore on two wheels.
Up to two feet of snow is expected at Downer Summit before Friday. I expect they will have to close I-80 to all traffic sometime on Thursday. But after that, it should stay dry up there for a while and I shouldn't have any trouble coming back to Reno.
-Don- Reno, NV
-
Hours for CalMoto's open house: their 'Event Calendar' lists 1000-1600.
Energica's email earlier this week advised 0900-1600.
Likely 0900 won't happen but 1000 is a sure bet.
Show up before 1000 and you'll probably have to hang out till 1000.
-
Hours for CalMoto's open house: their 'Event Calendar' lists 1000-1600.
Energica's email earlier this week advised 0900-1600.
Likely 0900 won't happen but 1000 is a sure bet.
Show up before 1000 and you'll probably have to hang out till 1000.
Well, I won't get there that early. But I will be there for sure. I expect to be there in the early afternoon. It's a 135 mile ride from here, according to my GPS and I probably won't leave all that early. I will show up on my Moto Guzzi. It has a full 8.5 gallon tank and is all ready to go.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
The shop itself opens at 9am so it’s possible Energica will still be there at 9am and the rest of their open house events will start at 10. I plan on being there around 9am since I have to get back home by 11.
-
I figure about 9:30 for me. I'll be wearing my red "Chain Gang Inmate #230" hat. ;)
-
Looks like I will miss all of you guys as i have not yet left, but I expect to leave in around a half hour from now, so I could get there by around 1100 hrs depending on traffic and such.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
A few pictures from today's event. I got bored and left at noon after lunch was served. ;)
-
Shiny pictures!
How was the layout of the new place? Seems really inaccessible from the map.
-Crissa
-
Shiny pictures!
How was the layout of the new place? Seems really inaccessible from the map.
-Crissa
The shop location is very easy to get to. It is just off I-580 in Livermore, via the Airway off-ramp. Personally, the interior of the dealership looks kind of disorganized to me. I have seen better layouts. What was interesting to me was that about 2/3 of the building is occupied by the Parkwest Casino.
-
A few pictures from today's event. I got bored and left at noon after lunch was served. ;)
You probably left a few minutes before I got there. Your photos came out a lot better than mine, so I will not even bother to post mine. I was using my backpacking camera, which isn't the greatest for such photos.
It was very cold going down I-5, in the light fog. The warmest area of the entire ride was when I got close to Livermore.
Anyway, I sure learned a lot about the Energicas today, which I will share in various messages in this section a bit later. Mostly about the design changes. I think I got the answer to every question I could think of, between the two batteries, the Ego stalling and much more, that I will put in related sections later tonight.
BTW, those who purchased a Energica in the last year (as I did) will get a letter in about a month how they will give $2,000.00 more back in a trade in to the bikes with the 21.5KWH battery, to make up for the price differences.
BTW, while it is possible to put the new battery in the older bikes, it is not worth the trouble. The main cables will need to be changed, so they do not offer such. It would cost more than just upgrading to the newer bike.
The reason the new battery is lighter is because the older battery was over-engineered. They put in a lot more casting in the older battery, about 25 lbs of it that they discovered later wasn't really necessary. The new battery cells weight about the same as the old cells, but they are different cells. And the layout is different, more of the weight down lower.
Also, my bike has an 80 amp fuse inside the battery and is a big hassle to change. The newer battery has the fuse (now larger, perhaps 100 amps, but they were not sure) behind a cover that just requires removing a few screws to replace. There was a problem with some chargers blowing fuses, by them starting the charge at 75 KWs or so. A charger FW problem, but in Europe, not here. They do have one bike from the USA with a blown main battery fuse, but they have not yet determined the cause.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
Current fuse is 90 amp I heard. Cool info!
-
Hours for CalMoto's open house: their 'Event Calendar' lists 1000-1600.
Energica's email earlier this week advised 0900-1600.
Likely 0900 won't happen but 1000 is a sure bet.
Show up before 1000 and you'll probably have to hang out till 1000.
Were you the guy I met there today, who was wearing a hat?
Does your Zero have a "San Jose" license plate holder, that I saw in the parking lot?
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
I went - got there at noon - just missed you Richard!
I made an appt to test-ride an Energica - rode the SS9 - sat on all three models, was very impressed, but like the looks and feel of the Eva Ribelle the best. The Ego is an awesome sport bike, but has a very aggressive forward-leaning stance (hard on my old shoulders).
Had a chance to talk to Stefano Benatti from Energica - very nice guy - patiently answered all of my questions.
-
By the way - there is a ChargePoint charger just across the street from the dealership.
-
I went - got there at noon - just missed you Richard!
I made an appt to test-ride an Energica - rode the SS9 - sat on all three models, was very impressed, but like the looks and feel of the Eva Ribelle the best. The Ego is an awesome sport bike, but has a very aggressive forward-leaning stance (hard on my old shoulders).
Had a chance to talk to Stefano Benatti from Energica - very nice guy - patiently answered all of my questions.
Did you see that Moto Guzzi Stelvio parking as you rode out on your test ride? I saw a SS9 go out for a test ride as I was arriving. Was another electric bike with you, leaving at the same time?
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
Very nice event.... Really, really like the Eva Ribelle in person.... Energica just got this model right.... AND I fit on it just pefectly lol !!!! Sure were a lot of very serious BMW riders there.... Excellent choice in hot dogs !!!! Believe they were Caspers !!!!
-
Yes, Tony was on the Ego - we took off at the same time. Just after noon.
The test-ride was mapped out for us - about 10 miles long - my only complaint is that the roads were terrible! Very bumpy, potholes everywhere - couldn’t really enjoy the ride - had to continuously look out for the bumps - was standing on the foot pegs half the time
Ha!
-
Hey Richard - did you do any test-rides?
-
Very nice event.... Really, really like the Eva Ribelle in person.... Energica just got this model right.... AND I fit on it just pefectly lol !!!! Sure were a lot of very serious BMW riders there.... Excellent choice in hot dogs !!!! Believe they were Caspers !!!!
The looks of the Ribelle did not turn me on any. I think their best looking Energica is the red Ego. But their most comfy bike is the SS9. I did sit on the Ribelle, I could notice the difference between it and the SS9. To me, the Ribelle felt much like the Ego when I checked it out. Between the Ribelle and the Ego, I would go for the Ego.
BTW, "city" to Energica is around 40 MPH. To my surprise, I was told "highway" was around 75 MPH. Range could be better than I expected at 75 MPH on the 21.5 KWH Battery. But OTOH, Energica says my SS9 range is 80 miles at 75 MPH and I don't buy that, unless all downhill on a warm day. One thing I forgot to ask is the expected range when just getting to a 0 SOC. I do know it's more than a couple of miles.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
Hey Richard - did you do any test-rides?
No I didn't. I think the Energica bikes are really wonderful, but they are about 200 pounds heavier than I feel comfortable handling. Plus, their prices are a bit more than I want to pay, along with I only use 120V charging at home as I am too cheap to pay for a commercial charging rate. So most of the Energica's best features would be lost on me. I am happy with using my Zero for local riding, visiting friends and for utility usages, instead of using my car. While I enjoy riding, I rarely do it for just fun. And the Energica bikes look more like fun than as a beast of burden.
-
I'm translating that as, "Energica isn't the bike for you because it looks like it's too much fun."
I hope the rest of you can heed this warning, and if I catch anyone having fun on their rides there will be consequences!
-
I think the Energica bikes are really wonderful, but they are about 200 pounds heavier than I feel comfortable handling. Plus, their prices are a bit more than I want to pay, along with I only use 120V charging at home as I am too cheap to pay for a commercial charging rate. So most of the Energica's best features would be lost on me. I am happy with using my Zero for local riding, visiting friends and for utility usages, instead of using my car. While I enjoy riding, I rarely do it for just fun. And the Energica bikes look more like fun than as a beast of burden.
You can charge the Energica with 120 VAC. The cable required comes with the bike for 120 VAC home charging. The only difference is that the cable is external to the bike, so it is not as convenient to charge from 120 VAC while on the road, such as behind the Harley shops as I did with my Zero DS in Tucson. You can still do the same with the Energica, but you need to carry the much larger and thicker cable and it takes up some room. But at home, it is just as easy to charge the Energica as it is your Zero, exactly as you have been doing.
And why do you think you would be charged a higher rate for 240 VAC? A KWH is a KWH so if you charge fast or slow, it should cost the same, with one exception. It can be cheaper to charge faster because some places have different rates for different times. You want to avoid the high rate times. Slow charging could get into the high rate charge time where the faster rate will be done by then.
On 120 VAC, the Energica charges at 1.5 KW, just a little more than your Zero (around 1.4 KW). But on 240 VAC, it will charge in half the time as it will then charge at 3.0 KWs unlike your Zero that will still charge at 1.5 KW.
But if you did 240 VAC the only additional cost is for the installation and the equipment to charge at 240 VAC. But this doesn't matter, as you can still charge the Energica the same way as your Zeros with your 120 VAC at home as you have been doing.
So now you have one less excuse to not buy the Energica. And one less excuse to not install 240 VAC, but that is a choice with the Energica. It has no real benefit to charge the Zero on 240 VAC, other than your cords will not get as warm because of the reduced current on 240 VAC and slightly less loss, but not a noticeable difference in charge times on a Zero, while the charge time will be cut in half on the Energica on 240 VAC.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
I think the Energica bikes are really wonderful, but they are about 200 pounds heavier than I feel comfortable handling.
There is a very good way to make the Energica seem very light. All you need to do is ride my 1,000 lb Harley and then ride the Energica right after and you will then realize what a nice light bike the Energica is! ;D
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
Someone with a commercial vested interest in growing Energica market share and someone with more bikes than 99% of us on this forum can afford are pumping up Energica benefits and throwing shade on a comment from a Zero owner.
Be better than this, please.
-
Someone with a commercial vested interest in growing Energica market share and someone with more bikes than 99% of us on this forum can afford are pumping up Energica benefits and throwing shade on a comment from a Zero owner.
I am not sure what you're talking about as I was just giving the facts about charging with 120 VAC and such. And those facts were not biased, just facts.
IMO, it is YOU who is biased, Biased against Energica, for whatever reason.
And BTW, the problem with Energica is not that there is not enough buyers. It is quite the opposite, they do not make enough bikes.
That is why some dealers put in for being an Energica dealer but can't do such any time soon. Energica has to satisfy their old dealers first before they can handle new dealers. Not enough bikes made for any new dealers as every shipment every bike is unloaded to their older dealers. When they can keep up with those orders, and have bikes left over, only then will there be new dealers.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
The more EV bikes the better - imagine the competition; the increased battery sizes and the improved charging capabilities.
I’ve had two Zeros, so I guess you could say I’m biased (I loved the new SR/F when I test-rode it), but I wanted to keep an open mind. I went to my local Harley dealership three times since they announced their Livewire bikes were ‘available’ and each time I went they ‘didn’t have one yet, try again next month’. So, no experience there.
I was also open to check out Energica since the price is about the same as the new Zero (if you get the extra battery pack to make it 18 kWh the Zero SR/F is over $20K).
With 21.5 kWh and fast-DC (CCS) charging I think Energica has just upped the ante. With their bikes you can charge with 240V at home (oh - and it’s easy to install - I installed our J1772 charger and I’m no electrician).
And then for the longer rides the option to charge quickly is very nice.
-
Don, Energicas are big, heavy, and not designed for anything but sport-bike posture and weighting.
And like Richard said, the better charging system is not a feature all of us can use yet.
The Energica is definitely the best you can buy - but that doesn't mean it's best for everything.
-Crissa
-
I think their best looking Energica is the red Ego. But their most comfy bike is the SS9.
I agree - I used to ride more aggressive sport bikes (Hurricanes and Ninjas) when I was younger, but when I sat on the Ego I had to lean forward much more than the Ribelle or the SS9. Although the Ribelle has a slight forward-leaning stance it seemed much closer to the SS9 than the Ego, to me.
If I were to pick one I would go with the Ribelle as it seems like a good compromise; sportier and nicer looking than the SS9 (but not quite as comfy), but more comfortable than the Ego.
Here is are two pictures one of me sitting on the SS9, the other on the Eva Ribelle - not too much more of a lean on the Ribelle:
-
the better charging system is not a feature all of us can use yet.
Where are you located Crissa?
CCS charging stations are already all across the US (the first picture is from PlugShare with only CCS chargers displayed).
(There are more listed on other charging station apps and websites.)
They just installed another 12 or 15 where I live in Stockton, CA
-
So did you guys test ride or just look and take pictures?
-
Don, Energicas are big, heavy, and not designed for anything but sport-bike posture and weighting.
I also attended Calmoto event and have different impressions about Energicas. I expected them to be heavy, based on what I read earlier, but it didn't feel this way at all. I'd even say it didn't feel heavier than 790 Adventure I use. I also sat on SR/F and didn't remember it feeling lighter - Energica has overall way better finish (I had deposit for SR/F but passed on it).
SS9 has a comfy upright position.
-
Don, Energicas are big, heavy, and not designed for anything but sport-bike posture and weighting.
And like Richard said, the better charging system is not a feature all of us can use yet.
The Energica is definitely the best you can buy - but that doesn't mean it's best for everything.
-Crissa
Much like the SR/F. I find of the four electric bikes (three Energicas and the SR/F) the SR/F is the most uncomfortable to me. Certainly performed well, however. The Esse Esse 9 is a lot more comfortable than the other two Energicas and even more so when compared to the SR/F. But that is for me. Other people may find the SR/F fits them well. But for me, it was one of the most uncomfortable bikes I have been on, other than I thought the seat was a lot better than my two Zeros. But I wasn't on it long enough to be sure.
By far, my most comfy bike for a long trip is my heaviest. The Harley. That would be my pick for going across the country. I do not have a favorite bike and I will not say one bike is any better than the other. They simply have different uses.
I have my Esse Esse 9 charging on 120 VAC right now. Kinda charging off and on. It's in the LPR (Long Period Rest) mode to keep it charged at the perfect percentage as I have not ridden it for almost two months.
The bikes I ride the most are my two Zeros, and by far. Those are great get around town bikes.
Have you ridden an SS9 to see if it feels heavy to you? I really don't notice it as all that heavy, because I have many bikes a lot heavier than it, so I am very used to heavy bikes. On the freeway, I prefer heavy bikes and that's where I mainly ride my Esse Esse 9. But not so much in the middle of winter. Now it's a better time for my ICE bikes. But I still use the Zeros for very short trips.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
Here is are two pictures one of me sitting on the SS9, the other on the Eva Ribelle - not too much more of a lean on the Ribelle:
I can see the difference as you have to left your head up more on the Ribelle.
Strange, but I could not feel a big difference between the Ego and the Ribelle when I sat on them. I did NOT test ride either, however. The Esse Esse 9 is where I feel the big difference.
If I were into sport riding, I would have the red Ego, but I am more into the comfort.
Those photos were great, I wish you could have included the Ego in there. I wonder if I could notice the difference between it and the Ego that way.
I know most people (but that term often leaves me out) like the Ribelle. I had no opinion on it until I sat on it yesterday. And I was not all that crazy about its looks. I certainly like the looks of the red Ego better, but I will not buy a bike based on looks. I want to ride bikes, not look at them. And I cannot see what it looks like while I am riding anyway.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
the better charging system is not a feature all of us can use yet.
Where are you located Crissa?
CCS charging stations are already all across the US (the first picture is from PlugShare with only CCS chargers displayed).
(There are more listed on other charging station apps and websites.)
They just installed another 12 or 15 where I live in Stockton, CA
She is in Santa Cruz.
There are many CCS chargers but they are not spread out very well. Between here and Reno, there are six places I can get a CCS charge in that 99 miles. Also no problem going west of here. I just wish the entire country was like that.
BTW, I rode through Stockton yesterday on my Moto Guzzi.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
I also attended Calmoto event and have different impressions about Energicas. I expected them to be heavy, based on what I read earlier, but it didn't feel this way at all. I'd even say it didn't feel heavier than 790 Adventure I use. I also sat on SR/F and didn't remember it feeling lighter - Energica has overall way better finish (I had deposit for SR/F but passed on it).
SS9 has a comfy upright position.
Welcome to the forum! What time were you there?
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
They just installed another 12 or 15 where I live in Stockton, CA
I wonder why most Wal*Marts do NOT have a J-1772 station. The one in Elk Grove does. But I think only there. They are all from Electrify America, so I wonder why they do not have the most common station of them all. What I mean by most common, is AFAIK, every EV (motorcycle or car) can use the J-1772 in one way or another. Even Teslas, Zeros, Energica. What EVs cannot use J-1772? Are there any? Is there any EV charger that cannot run from 240 VAC? I have yet to see such.
There are many that cannot use CCS, such as Tesla. I would think they would have the J1772 everywhere they have CCS.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
As a relatively newer rider in the USA, i would like to be as objective as possible to this discussion:
I guess what would really be great is, if any eMotorcycle company could come up with a bike that has size (weight and dimensions) similar to a Zero S/SR, but with DC fast charge. This would be a great as a commuter and as an occasional long riding bike. Which would mean that this could probably cater to most of the newer motorcycle market (atleast in the USA). I say this as not many of the newer motorcycle riders would want a huge bike or something that need to go cross country.
I have seen many new bikes in my workplace pop up in the last year or so. Of course a lot of these are gas bikes. The most of what i have seen are naked ~600CC bikes or sport tourers. I dont see any Harley's or super sports. I can see that maneuverability, comfort and being less intimidating than the other categories of bigger and/or more powerful bikes as a good factor.
The age group of these new-riders-to-workplace is between 25-40 from what i have seen.
At this point i since there are only 2 major companies manufacturing eBikes, i only see 2 options:
1. Energica could come up with a new model which uses the same battery tech as their 21kWh pack, but with something like 13kWh capacity. This would certainly reduce the weight. Also this would mean reducing weight elsewhere on the bike too. Like a smaller motor enough for a 0-60 in 4-5 seconds and a 100mph(more than enough for real world roads), smaller rear wheel and tire, lighter frame etc. This would certainly be priced competitively with the Zero S/SR too.
2. Or Zero somehow brings in DC fast charging to the S/SR models.
I guess until either of this happens, the good chunk of the newer riders will always have to make a compromise on one thing or the other, just like i did. Sure i would love to have DC fast charging on my bike, but the Energicas look intimidating in terms of their size and power/torque figures and way above my budget too. I do get bummed that i have to wait a good chunk of time to charge when i go on the occasional long rides (150-200 miles). But the reality is that i have to live with it for now :)
-
CCS is great for short charging, but they're installing it at like Whole Foods now. I don't understand why they're putting CCS at places where you expect to spend more than twenty minutes, tho.
But I don't know of any in Santa Cruz. I could use them if I wanted to get to North Bay, but that's out of my riding ability, too.
-Crissa
The reason it hasn't happened is because the electronics would be more expensive and heavier. But yes, the charging faster seems to be a more important thing than range.
-
I also attended Calmoto event and have different impressions about Energicas. I expected them to be heavy, based on what I read earlier, but it didn't feel this way at all. I'd even say it didn't feel heavier than 790 Adventure I use. I also sat on SR/F and didn't remember it feeling lighter - Energica has overall way better finish (I had deposit for SR/F but passed on it).
SS9 has a comfy upright position.
Welcome to the forum! What time were you there?
-Don- Auburn, CA
I think 11-13ish. Tall guy in blue jacket with orange backpack.
-
CCS is great for short charging, but they're installing it at like Whole Foods now. I don't understand why they're putting CCS at places where you expect to spend more than twenty minutes, tho.
But I don't know of any in Santa Cruz. I could use them if I wanted to get to North Bay, but that's out of my riding ability, too.
-Crissa
The reason it hasn't happened is because the electronics would be more expensive and heavier. But yes, the charging faster seems to be a more important thing than range.
There are a couple CCS stations in Santa Cruz. I use them often.
-
I think 11-13ish. Tall guy in blue jacket with orange backpack.
Was Laurence showing you another black backpack? If so, I was the guy who said hello to Laurence when you were done with him.
I think I do remember seeing a guy there with an orange backpack, but I am not sure if we said anything to each other.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
The first time I sat on an Eva the biggest difference I noticed compared to my SR was that the Eva is very much a full sized motorcycle. The SR always seemed small. Yes you get used to it but it was something I noticed every time I got on it. It left me wishing that someone would build a full sized electric motorcycle and Energica did that. Lots of concern about the Energica's weight and no question they are not light. But I have ridden mine on the Tail of the Dragon in western NC and the weight didn't seem to be any issue when pushing it through the tight twisties of the Dragon. Energica also has far stronger regen than the SR has. You are not going to use those Brembos nearly as much as you would think given the weight of the bike.
I think something we are seeing here is that competition is good for everyone. I think it will be interesting to see how the SR/F and the Eva Ribelle compare in sales for 2020. Both bikes will have their fans but the choice between them isn't obvious for new riders. For a long time Zero was the only game in town if someone wanted an electric motorcycle and that is no longer the case.
-
My motorcycle riding experience and usage is not typical. I started riding a motor scooter in 1962 because I needed to get to college from home and there was no public transportation system that would get me there. I wanted to learn how to drive a car, but unfortunately my dad was an insurance adjuster and would not permit me to learn how to drive using his 1957 Ford sedan and I also didn't have enough money to afford a used car. But he did agree to let me spend $300 to buy a new Vespa scooter to get to college and figure out how to ride it in our backyard. So I grew up thinking of scooters and motorcycles being transportation first and recreation second. Now my Zero has replaced my car for most of my local trips as it doesn't require any warmup and very little maintenance, plus recharging the bike has only raised my home electric bill about $15 a month, much less than even one fill up (at $3.60 a gallon) of my car's 12 gallon fuel tank.
The heaviest motorcycle that I have ever owned was a 1992 BMW K100RS. A real freeway flyer, but not a lot of fun at low speeds and tight back roads. Since then I have tried to keep motorcycle weights down. On most motorcycles their weights seem to not be a factor while riding at anything above a walking pace, but I have such a crowded two-car garage, what with a car and six motorcycles in there that I have to do a lot of pushing bikes around, including pushing them up my driveway to get them parked facing toward the door. At age 75, it is really getting more difficult for me to push stuff around and I am always worried about a bike falling over and not being able to pick it up, so that is the only reason why the Energica bikes' weights cause me concern. 20 years ago, their weight wouldn't have bothered me.
-
I have such a crowded two-car garage, what with a car and six motorcycles in there that I have to do a lot of pushing bikes around, including pushing them up my driveway to get them parked facing toward the door. At age 75, it is really getting more difficult for me to push stuff around and I am always worried about a bike falling over and not being able to pick it up, so that is the only reason why the Energica bikes' weights cause me concern.
I think you will find the Energicas the easiest to deal with in that situation, as I have. Let the bike do the work. It will only move at 1.75 MPH at WOT in slow forward and slow reverse and a press of a button changes directions. I just wish all bikes would have such.
Did any of your BMWs have a reverse? I know the older BMW LT did. Even put itself on the centerstand. My Energica is my first bike to have a reverse. The reverse has been proven to be a lot more handy than I expected.
BTW, the slow forward is not necessary on the Zeros as they have very slow throttle response in Eco mode. But the Energica doesn't. It wants to fly when barely touching the throttle. The slow forward is needed on the Energicas but not the Zeros, other than the Energica limits the speed on low forward to 1.75 MPH, making it a bit safer. Being able to easily switch from slow forward to slow reverse is very handy in tight spots such as in crowded garages.
BTW, I have a buddy, George, who is a retired motorcycle cop from NYC. He is the same age as you (either 75 or 76). He will only ride heavy bikes. He doesn't like the feel of light bikes. He has ridden my Zeros and he said they felt like toys. He has also ridden my Energica and really liked it. I prefer to have both, light as well as heavy bikes. He normally rides his 2017 Harley Road-Glide Special (My 2017 Harley is the is the even heavier Road Glide Ultra). I used to hate every Harley I have tried. After I rode his Harley, I loved it and I purchased mine a few days later. Heavy bikes have their place also, even for us older guys. But you do NOT want to deal with such in your garage, just like I don't here. But if it had a slow electric reverse and slow forward, I would not mind at all bringing it here.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
BTW, "city" to Energica is around 40 MPH. To my surprise, I was told "highway" was around 75 MPH. Range could be better than I expected at 75 MPH on the 21.5 KWH Battery. But OTOH, Energica says my SS9 range is 80 miles at 75 MPH and I don't buy that, unless all downhill on a warm day. One thing I forgot to ask is the expected range when just getting to a 0 SOC. I do know it's more than a couple of miles.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Don, what actual range numbers did they quote for the 21kWh models at 75 MPH? Is there a difference between the faired Ego+ and the unfaired Ribelle & EsseEsse9+, as one would expect?
-
Don, what actual range numbers did they quote for the 21kWh models at 75 MPH? Is there a difference between the faired Ego+ and the unfaired Ribelle & EsseEsse9+, as one would expect?
No difference between 21.5KWH models in range as shown in print:
All three show as:
21.5 KHH max / 18.9 nom. battery:
city : 249 miles
combined: 143 miles
highway : 112 miles
I was told city means 40 MPH and freeway means 75 MPH.
However, I don't buy it. Because on my 13.4 / 11.7 battery it shows the range as:
city 124 miles
combined 100 miles
highway 80 miles
I don't buy that my Esse Esse 9 can go 80 miles at 75 MPH.
Energica specs are not from an independent source, which costs about the same as a new Energica. Has to be done a certain way. I heard Zero specs are done by an independent source and are therefore more accurate.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
^^
Interesting that the range for the Ego+ is no different.
As for the source question, the primary purpose of publishing performance/economy/range specs has always been to be able to compare between vehicle models rather than get accurate numbers, which after all depend greatly on the specific conditions. That means that a standardized, detailed, and published test procedure is a requirement. A vendor can always publish additional numbers if they think they reflect "real-world" results better.
This is all the more relevant for motorcycles, where the form factor & weight of the rider, luggage, accessories etc. affect things a lot more than they would a car.
Zero does say in the specs for their "combined" range that they measure it according to SAE J2982, but don't give full details for the other cases (the SAE doc isn't available for free AFAIK).
IIRC, the SAE standard is done on a dyno, so wouldn't necessarily very realistic w.r.t. aerodynamics, although they use some computed formulas to compensate.
I don't know if there's a comparable EU standard that Energica could use, but I suspect not -- Zero quotes the SAE standard on its EU website as well, and if there were an EU standard, they'dmost like use it.
-
So did you guys test ride or just look and take pictures?
I rode an ego. I found the leg positioncramped, the suspension harsh, and the drivetrain whiny loud.
They look good though, especially the 20kWh with fast dc charging.
-
I rode an ego. I found the leg positioncramped, the suspension harsh, and the drivetrain whiny loud.
They look good though, especially the 20kWh with fast dc charging.
Yeah, I love the looks of the red Ego, but I will take the comfort over the looks any day. Besides, I also think my Blue Esse Esse 9 looks great, but I do like the Ego look even more so.
You should try the Esse Esse 9. I think the Ego is more of a race track bike and the SS9 a lot more practical for normal roads. While the Ego is faster, the SS9 will be more than fast enough for most people. Too fast for me, so I don't usually ride in the sport mode.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
> You should try the Esse Esse 9. I think the Ego is more of a race track bike and the SS9 a lot more practical for normal roads. While the Ego is faster, the SS9 will be more than fast enough for most people. Too fast for me, so I don't usually ride in the sport mode.
Yeah, I think I'll try the SS9+ 20kwh when it's available to test ride
Sure wish a very forward comfortable position long range fast charger electric was available for people who want to eat miles, not get the faster lap times. NM4 position. I dream of converting mine to electric drivetrain but am wary of the time investment.