ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: DonTom on December 25, 2019, 07:17:56 AM
-
I just came back from the Harley shop here in Yuma. I got there after they closed, as they close at 1400 hrs for Xmas Eve.
But so far, EVERY Harley shop I have been to anywhere in CA, NV or AZ, has outdoor 120 VAC outlets on either the side or back of the buildings that we can easily access. I just charged up my Zero at the Yuma HD shop for a few minutes.
These plugs are NOT mentioned on Plugshare UNLESS they also have the CCS chargers. Then BOTH are mentioned.
But the shops withOUT the CCS chargers all also seem to have the outside 120 VAC outlets, and these are NOT mentioned.
I have no idea how a Harley shop would feel Zeros charging there, but I assume if you at least go in the shop nobody will say anything.
I especially don't worry about it as I am in the Harley System and have been as fairly good customer of theirs. I also have the US Bank Harley credit card which is my most used credit card, which means I am normally not even charged for things I buy at the Harley shop. I now have (let me check) (Copy and paste below):
Total Rewards Balance 19434 Points
Pending Rewards 192 Points
Once you rack up 2,500 points, you can redeem them for an H-D™ Gift Card. Gift cards are available in $25 increments. If you want to use your H-D™ Gift Card right away, you can choose to have it emailed within minutes. If you prefer a plastic gift card by mail, one will be mailed via USPS arriving within 1 - 2 weeks.
Your H-D™ Gift Card balance doesn't expire and there are no monthly fees. You can use it multiple times at the dealership and online at h-d.com/store.
Above shows I have $126.26 worth of free money to spend at Harley shops. I have already spent a lot more points than that over the last couple of years. I buy my synthetic Harley Engine oil there for free, on points, and much more.
And I mean free. I never spent a penny on interest or fees on this credit card. IMO, it is stupid to use cash or debit cards in today's world. And today, credit cards are often faster than using cash or debit (no pin or signature required in many cases).
Here is my bike charging at the Yuma Harley Shop today:
-Don- Yuma, AZ (RV)
-
Pretty sure that's classed as theft in some places, always best to get explicit permission and not just assume they won't mind.
On the topic of credit cards, I've never had one and hope never to need one. I've never been in debt until I got my Zero (on finance), everything else I just save up for if I can't afford it with my current savings and I make sure not to deplete those fully in case something unexpected pops up.
-
Pretty lucky to have not needed credit.
But just having the outlets does mean one can ask. No use in asking if they don't even have them!
-Crissa
-
Well if it's an emergency then it's always worth asking, many places do have outdoors outlets (although a lot of places will have them locked or hidden well for safety and security) or might even be nice enough to let you bring the bike inside or grab an extension lead for you.
The reason the outlets aren't listed, or one should assume that because they're not listed, is because they're probably not free for just anyone to use. Going around telling everyone that they're there is also not the greatest idea because if the usage goes up the shop is more likely to say no and maybe even go to the extent of getting lockable outlets (they really should anyway).
-
I used to be able to charge my Zero for several years at Alice's Restaurant (with their permission) while eating breakfast there, using their 120V outlets. But at some point, a group of Zero riders plugged into their 240V outlet located at the side of their gas station and blew up their electrical system, which shut down the facility until they could get it repaired. Now they have signs on all of their exterior outlets saying that EV charging is not permitted. :(
-
I used to be able to charge my Zero for several years at Alice's Restaurant (with their permission) while eating breakfast there, using their 120V outlets. But at some point, a group of Zero riders plugged into their 240V outlet located at the side of their gas station and blew up their electrical system, which shut down the facility until they could get it repaired. Now they have signs on all of their exterior outlets saying that EV charging is not permitted. :(
There must have been a problem there to begin with, as all that should do is trip a circuit breaker. It should blow well before there is any damage to the wiring or anything else. 240 VAC circuits are normally on two circuit breakers ganged together. So if one blows, it forces the other open.
But the Harley shops that I have seen only have 120 VAC outlets. Yuma only has one, Tucson had two, several feet apart. I did wonder if the two outlets in Tucson were on separate circuits, but I wasn't going to also plug in and try to use my quick charger to find out!
-Don- Yuma, AZ (RV)
-
Pretty sure that's classed as theft in some places, always best to get explicit permission and not just assume they won't mind.
On the topic of credit cards, I've never had one and hope never to need one. I've never been in debt until I got my Zero (on finance), everything else I just save up for if I can't afford it with my current savings and I make sure not to deplete those fully in case something unexpected pops up.
I think I heard that is the case when you plug into government owned stuff. But a private business can do whatever they want. I figure at worse case, you are asked not to charge (or be charged with trespassing, if you don't stop when asked).
But I even charge my Energica for free (at 15 KWs) at some Harley shops and they know it. Nobody has ever said anything, other than ask me about my bike.
It's usually easier to ask for forgiveness than permission to do such things. Perhaps none of the employees at HD will feel they are authorized to give such permission. Likewise for telling you NOT to charge there.
With the credit card, you can treat it as if it were cash. I often pay the entire balance every few days (on line). Almost every credit card these days pay you to use them in one way or another, so it makes no sense to not receive the free money. These days, I often use them for even $5.00 purchases because it is faster than using cash., besides the fact that every little bit helps to raise up my points. I also get free groceries by using my Smith's credit card, also from US Bank.
Some credit cards give better advantages to be used on some things. For an example, the HD credit card doubles my points earned on gasoline, motels, RV parks and restaurants . They triple the points when I use it at a Harley shop, so then I have to decide on using the points I have already earned or use the credit card to earn three times the points.
-Don- Yuma, AZ (RV)
-
Well if it's an emergency then it's always worth asking, many places do have outdoors outlets (although a lot of places will have them locked or hidden well for safety and security) or might even be nice enough to let you bring the bike inside or grab an extension lead for you.
The reason the outlets aren't listed, or one should assume that because they're not listed, is because they're probably not free for just anyone to use. Going around telling everyone that they're there is also not the greatest idea because if the usage goes up the shop is more likely to say no and maybe even go to the extent of getting lockable outlets (they really should anyway).
Think about how that could be a very bad policy. I had both my Zeros before I purchased my Harley at a HD shop. Why would a cycle shop want to piss off any cycle owner? Just the fact that you're there, could mean you want to do business with them, sometimes big business. They cannot be that stupid to piss off a possible customer over a few pennies as that could cost them thousands.
What really surprises me is the shops that sell Zeros do not have outside outlets.
-Don- Yuma, AZ (RV)
-
I think I heard that is the case when you plug into government owned stuff. But a private business can do whatever they want. I figure at worse case, you are asked not to charge (or be charged with trespassing, if you don't stop when asked).
Well it's technically theft (taking something of value without asking) and I don't think "there was nothing preventing me from taking it" is a valid excuse. No different to walking past a grocery store and taking an apple off the cart out front in my eyes.
With the credit card, you can treat it as if it were cash. I often pay the entire balance every few days (on line). Almost every credit card these days pay you to use them in one way or another, so it makes no sense to not receive the free money. These days, I often use them for even $5.00 purchases because it is faster than using cash.
I do the same with my debit card. The only advantage I can see from a credit card is the fees are lower (or non-existent) from borrowing money that you don't have at the time (I can go overdrawn with my debit card, the fees are quite high though iirc) but that's not a habit that I want to get in to. Of course there's also shit like a credit score but that stuff's never going to matter to someone like me.
Think about how that could be a very bad policy. I had both my Zeros before I purchased my Harley at a HD shop. Why would a cycle shop want to piss off any cycle owner? Just the fact that you're there, could mean you want to do business with them, sometimes big business. They cannot be that stupid to piss off a possible customer over a few pennies as that could cost them thousands.
Just because you actually shop there, giving them hundreds or thousands of dollars, in exchange for a few pence worth of electricity every now and then doesn't mean other people are in the same situation. If the outlets ended up being listed there'd be a ton of people stopping by just to charge with no intention of making a purchase (I imagine the market for people who like electric bikes and Harleys is relatively small), taking up space, distracting potential customers, and maybe even being a safety hazard.
-
What really surprises me is the shops that sell Zeros do not have outside outlets.
-Don- Yuma, AZ (RV)
Filipacchi's in NYC has an outdoor outlet and invites anyone to use it to charge. They invited me to plug in, but I was parked around the corner and it would've meant riding around the block to get to it. Considering it was only Level1, it wasn't worth it. They said many people with electric scooters, "hover boards," etc will stop in and charge up but those don't take as long to charge as a Zero.
-
On the subject of credit cards: All of mine are "no fee" and I haven't carried a balance on any of them in two decades. My CostCo card gets me 4% cash back for gasoline and restaurant purchases, 3% cash back on travel-related expenses, 2% on anything purchased at CostCo and 1% on anything else. This is totaled up during the year and in February I get a coupon that can be cashed at CostCo. Typically this has averaged around $300 a year for me.
My Discover Card pays 1% cash back on everything and every quarter there is a promotional 5% cash back on purchases from specific vendors or types of purchases. I allow those "rebates" to accumulate in my Amazon account, and then I just buy myself a "present" every now and then. I can also give "Gift Cards" to friends that don't actually cost me anything.
Finally, my Capital One VISA card pays 1.5% cash back on all purchases, so anything that isn't covered by the CostCo card, or the Discover Card gets charged on my Capital One card.
If the banks want to give me "Free Money" who am I to argue?? Just because you have a credit card doesn't mean you have to get yourself up to your eyeballs in debt. It's all a matter of knowing how much you can afford and NOT going over that.
-
If the banks want to give me "Free Money" who am I to argue?? Just because you have a credit card doesn't mean you have to get yourself up to your eyeballs in debt. It's all a matter of knowing how much you can afford and NOT going over that.
That's fair I guess, but at that point it's no different to a debit card. It's just another way to use money in your account electronically. I'm not saying that a debit card is better, just that a credit card wouldn't be any better for me. Also all the bonuses that you guys get wouldn't apply to, again, someone like me. I don't buy gas, stay in hotels, shop at Costco, eat at restaurants, etc. I guess you could say I live a simple life.
-
That's fair I guess, but at that point it's no different to a debit card. It's just another way to use money in your account electronically. I'm not saying that a debit card is better, just that a credit card wouldn't be any better for me. Also all the bonuses that you guys get wouldn't apply to, again, someone like me. I don't buy gas, stay in hotels, shop at Costco, eat at restaurants, etc. I guess you could say I live a simple life.
Do you spend money ANYWHERE? If so, you're losing by not accepting free money. Some credit cards give back MORE points for certain things, but even with these, you're paid back for ANY purchase anywhere. With other cards, it makes no difference where you spend the money, you get money back in one way or the other. I use my Kroger's Master Card (Smith's groceries, common in NV) the 2nd most. Every three months they send me around $60.00 worth of checks that I spend on groceries at Smith's near my Reno house. Just from NOT using cash or debit cards.
I even have most of my utility bills charged to a credit card and get points from it.
Now on a different subject . . .
I just got a free charge at Yuma City Hall and checked in on Plugshare here, with photo. (https://www.plugshare.com/location/10210) I have never seen Chrysler charge stations before. Two J-1772 stations, free for all to use.
Yuma has very few J-1772s, unlike Tucson where the Blink charge stations are all over the city.
Tomorrow, I will visit the Yuma Harley shop. As I recharge back up to full, of course!
-Don- Yuma, AZ
-
Many businesses USED to have outdoor outlets for THEIR use. I would go in to a store to shop and plug my Zero in while there.
With the homeless population growing so much, they were using them for everything and were just hanging around outside.
Most of the ones I used to use are now either blocked off with a plate, or a cover with a lock.
-
Many businesses USED to have outdoor outlets for THEIR use. I would go in to a store to shop and plug my Zero in while there.
With the homeless population growing so much, they were using them for everything and were just hanging around outside.
Most of the ones I used to use are now either blocked off with a plate, or a cover with a lock.
Yeah, I have heard the same thing. But I wonder why they remove them instead of just turning them off when they are not open. Can be done at the CB panel if they don't have a switch inside.
-Don- Yuma, AZ (RV)
-
Like Alice's, lots of times it's old wiring that's shared with other devices that are hard wired, so turning them off will turn off a sign or machine... And Alice's is old enough to have old-style screw-in fuses in some places.
-Crissa
-
Like Alice's, lots of times it's old wiring that's shared with other devices that are hard wired, so turning them off will turn off a sign or machine... And Alice's is old enough to have old-style screw-in fuses in some places.
-Crissa
If they are closed, they will probably want more stuff turned off anyway.
-Don- Yuma, AZ (RV)
-
The local shopping mall just installed some Level2 charging stations. Unlike anything else I've used, these don't require you to sign up for anything or install an app on your phone. Just pull into the spot and plug in the J1772 connector. The downside is, those of us with first generation (non-SR/F) models don't have any indication of how much charge you've gotten or when the charging is done unless you go out to physically check your vehicle. At least with the ChargePoint chargers, I can check the charging rate on my phone to know when it is fully charged or not.
The upside is, these new stations always seem to be providing the full 6kW rate, so in two hours I should be fully charged even if I was close to "empty" when I first hooked up. I can estimate based on that, I guess.
-
The local shopping mall just installed some Level2 charging stations. Unlike anything else I've used, these don't require you to sign up for anything or install an app on your phone. Just pull into the spot and plug in the J1772 connector.
That is how many of them are in Reno and Auburn. Always on and free. AFAIK, Clipper Creek are always like that. Are those charge stations made by Clipper Creek? Also, the one I used at Yuma City Hall today was made by Chysler, and is always on.
The downside is, those of us with first generation (non-SR/F) models don't have any indication of how much charge you've gotten or when the charging is done unless you go out to physically check your vehicle. At least with the ChargePoint chargers, I can check the charging rate on my phone to know when it is fully charged or not.
The upside is, these new stations always seem to be providing the full 6kW rate, so in two hours I should be fully charged even if I was close to "empty" when I first hooked up. I can estimate based on that, I guess.
They are normally capable of around 6.6 KW IIRC.
But since there is no idle time charge, it's not all that important to time it to the minute, unless others are waaiting to use it.
Tesla owners using Superchargers where 50% or more are being used are the ones who have to keep better track of the charging. Idle time costs more than the charge time per minute.
-Don- Yuma, AZ (RV)
-
If you plug in on the non networked chargers, you can give the bike a few minutes to settle in and just look
at the dash. It will give you an indication of charge time. On my bikes, I look at time to full, divide the time
so that I can unplug at just under 80%. It is a hassle, but pretty accurate.
-
That's what I do, too, Ed.
I wish the app did it for me, tho.
-Crissa
-
It is a hassle, but pretty accurate.
Yours may be, but the Zero DS I have with me now charges about twice as fast as the display says it will take. If the display says it will take an hour, it will probably take 25 minutes to full charge.
I think perhaps my battery capacity has lowered to less than half. I think my range is also less than half of what it used to be, if I go by the SOC indicator.
My 6.5 KWH battery is probably down to around 3 KWHs. I didn't expect age to also make it charge to full twice as fast, just as if it were really only a 3 KWH battery.
Perhaps I will see about getting a warranty replacement later, since it's a five year warranty, if I really think it's the battery and not just a flaky SOC readings. I will probably have to run it to nothing left to find out! But when I get home, I will check the voltage at 50% SOC and see how it reads and then post about it here, when I have some real info. We cannot consider a SOC reading as real info., but voltage doesn't lie.
-Don- Yuma, AZ (RV)