ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: ESokoloff on December 09, 2019, 03:49:22 AM
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As this involves Electricity, use at your own peril........
The receptacals on my charge cords (6' & 10') get quite warm after several hrs of use.
I found that the Line & Netural pins of the bikes plug (located in the socket) are just under 1/2" (Ground is slightly longer), yet the black plastic/insulation) on the end of the cords receptacals is nearly 1/4".
I used a bench grinder to remove all this rubber revealing the white plastic underneath.
(Careful to remove the residual rubber from the pin receivers as well as reshape the receptacal so the insurtertion stop will acomadate this change).
This modification has increased the cords receptacal/pins (inside bikes socket) contact/surface area by nearly 100%!!!!
Again, user beware.
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Are you saying you shaved the ridge on the outside of the connector so it can be inserted further into the socket, that it was contacting the frame of the bike? You shouldn't need to modify the portion of the connector that goes inside the socket if it actually abides by the IEC standards, it should be able to accept a 16mm ground pin and 13mm live/neutral pins (which should be 15mm and 12mm respectively on the bike). Also the distance to the ridge or lip on the cable should be 18mm and the depth of the connector on the bike should be 17mm (just the plastic portion, there's no standard governing how much clearance the hole in the frame should provide but it looks like Zero provide a fair amount).
Just how hot were the connectors getting anyway? They're rated to 70°C, if they were getting hotter than that then I imagine that something is faulty.
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I’ve gone through a few cords already & the dealer replaced the bikes socket (have about 39.5k miles) due to heat damaged connections.
Look at the end of the receptacle.
You will see that the black rubber is approx 1/4†(6mm) thick.
This means that the receptacle will not contact the bikes pins (the pins base is flush with the bottom of the socket) in this area.
All I’ve done is to remove this plastic & this nearly doubles contact area.
The insertion of the receptacle is limited by the black plastic.
When this is removed, the shaped sides interfere with the insertion & must be modified.
The way I see this receptacle (IEC 320 C13) it’s not up to the task of passing the amount of current required.
By allowing the receptacle to be inserted an additional 1/4†(50% of total contact area available) I’ve nearly halved the current/surface area of the original configuration thus extending lifespan of both cords & bikes socket.
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Interesting, so a theoretical 22mm long ground pin would fit in the connector? I'll have to check mine out tomorrow and see if it's the same, not that it really matters as I'm charging on 240v so the current is halved (I'm assuming you're on 110v to be having heat issues) but I'm curious. Are your cables official Zero ones (don't know if they're actually branded at all, but whether they came from Zero)?
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Interesting, so a theoretical 22mm long ground pin would fit in the connector? I'll have to check mine out tomorrow and see if it's the same, not that it really matters as I'm charging on 240v so the current is halved (I'm assuming you're on 110v to be having heat issues) but I'm curious. Are your cables official Zero ones (don't know if they're actually branded at all, but whether they came from Zero)?
I charge at 125 volts at home using both the original Zero cable (which I think is 14-gauge) and a longer 12-gauge cable that I bought from Amazon. My charging current peaks at 1450 watts right before the power shuts off. Both ends of both cables become warm to the touch, but not hot. Maybe 80 degrees F.
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Interesting, so a theoretical 22mm long ground pin would fit in the connector? I'll have to check mine out tomorrow and see if it's the same, not that it really matters as I'm charging on 240v so the current is halved (I'm assuming you're on 110v to be having heat issues) but I'm curious. Are your cables official Zero ones (don't know if they're actually branded at all, but whether they came from Zero)?
Not sure about your first question (clearance of ground pin).
Lucky you to have 220v as current/heat is halved compared to my North American configuration.
Regarding cables: I purchased the bike used from a private party so don’t know if the provided 6’ cord was OEM or not.
A 6’ cord from the dealer was about $20 so I sourced replacements elsewhere.
I’m curious if the dealership’s offering is any different?
I’m not impressed with IEC rated devices ( as compared with NEMA) (https://www.google.com/search?q=iec+vs+nema&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari)
In my opinion it’s not up the task of passing the upwards of 15 amps for the duration of completing a full charge.
By modifying the design (removing 6mm of rubber), I’ve increased its current passing potential significantly.
The bike is my daily commuter. (55 miles round trip)
My typical charge cycle starts with me unplugging with 100% at the end of my shift.
I arrive home with about 71%+-
The next day I ride into work with about 30%+- and plug in so the charge duration is 6-7 hrs which exacerbates poor electrical conductivity issues.
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I charge at 125 volts at home using both the original Zero cable (which I think is 14-gauge) and a longer 12-gauge cable that I bought from Amazon. My charging current peaks at 1450 watts right before the power shuts off. Both ends of both cables become warm to the touch, but not hot. Maybe 80 degrees F.
How long is a typical charge (duration)?
Using 12AWG is great but the IEC C13 is still the bottleneck.
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Do you have pictures showing where your talking about?
I'm guessing you mean taking 6mm of plastic off the female C13 plug tip.
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Do you have pictures showing where your talking about?
I'm guessing you mean taking 6mm of plastic off the female C13 plug tip.
No plastic (white) was removed, but rather all the rubber (black) from the tip of the C13 recptacle was removed (thus exposing the white plastic) as well as reshaping the receptacle so it doesn't interfere with the bikes socket walls.
I've taken the time attempt to measure the exact dimensions of the C13 cord receptacle as well as the bikes socket (IEC 320 C14 (subject to my particular devices, instruments, & interpretation).
Originally I overestimated the dimensions.
Look long & hard at the end of a IEC C13.
First you see approximately .1535" (5/32"~3.9mm) of black rubber.
Then there is approximately .1045" (7/64"~3.5mm) of white plastic.
Below that is the copper (brass?) conductors that are approximately .439" (7/16"~11.11mm).
The total depth of the receptacal is approximately .697" (11/16"~17.5mm).
What I did was
(1) Removed the .1535" (5/32"~3.9mm) of black rubber.
(2) Removed the last .1535" of the receptacal rectangle to transfer it into a polygon so it can be inserted fully into the bikes C14 socket.
The current carrying pins of the bikes C14 socket are approximately .48" (31/64"~12.3mm).
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This thread needs photos.
I'm intrigued, but I am also not sure whether it's a good idea for most people. I think most should just investigate buying a hospital-grade power cord that has 12AWG thickness.
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I think most should just investigate buying a hospital-grade power cord that has 12AWG thickness.
I'd agree with that statement, with more emphasis on "hospital-grade" than the wire gauge. That 15-amp outlet you're plugging into is probably wired with 14AWG wiring. Usually only the 20-amp circuits get 12AWG. Almost always, it's the plug/connector or the strain relief that goes before anything else. Hospital grade equipment use better materials and better designs in those aspects, which is what makes them more expensive, but much more reliable.
It is baffling how there could be inadequate engagement. There are standard dimensions for these things, after all. There's no guarantee that your random China-sourced components meet all the standards, but that's a pretty basic lack of compliance.
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So... something like: http://tinyurl.com/uw4ht8u
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That one looks good. I'd probably go for the 15-footer just to give you some extra flexibility. You may someday wish your cable was longer, but it's not likely you'll wish it was shorter!
In the grandest do-what-I-say-not-what-I-do fashion, I went for a plain old industrial grade cable, 25' feet long: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=5292 . It's been a great cable for me for several years, warming up just the tiniest bit at the ends, but never getting anywhere near dangerously hot. It is starting to develop some cracks on the strain relief, so I'll probably need to replace it before too long, but it doesn't owe me anything at this point.
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I bought my cable from monoprice, and it outlasted my onboard charger (and now my bike, unrelatedly):
https://www.monoprice.com/category/cables/power-cords/hospital-power-cords
I tend to recommend 12AWG and bought 14AWG at the time for the onboard charger. I think it's just harder to find 12AWG in hospital grade hardware. I'm using 12AWG in my garage currently, but that's because I'd be drawing 15A from my 220V dryer outlet.
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This thread needs photos.
If someone sends me a message with an email address & can/will post images, I will provide before/after images.
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It is baffling how there could be inadequate engagement. There are standard dimensions for these things, after all. There's no guarantee that your random China-sourced components meet all the standards, but that's a pretty basic lack of compliance.
If you checked out the link I posted earlier regarding IEC vs NEMA, you would see that IEC has little leeway in design so tighter manufacturing tollerences MUST be maintained & likely to drift out of tolerance sooner then a comparable NEMA design.
Aparintly this receptacal/plug (socket) interface is not an issue with every user but I know there have been several experiences of it being an issue.
This modification to the receptacal is my solution & thought I would share.
Use this advice at your own peril.
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This thread needs photos.
If someone sends me a message with an email address & can/will post images, I will provide before/after images.
I have done this.
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I bought my cable from monoprice, and it outlasted my onboard charger (and now my bike, unrelatedly):
https://www.monoprice.com/category/cables/power-cords/hospital-power-cords (https://www.monoprice.com/category/cables/power-cords/hospital-power-cords)
I tend to recommend 12AWG and bought 14AWG at the time for the onboard charger. I think it's just harder to find 12AWG in hospital grade hardware. I'm using 12AWG in my garage currently, but that's because I'd be drawing 15A from my 220V dryer outlet.
If your using 220v, then your current draw is half what mine is at 110v.
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I bought my cable from monoprice, and it outlasted my onboard charger (and now my bike, unrelatedly):
https://www.monoprice.com/category/cables/power-cords/hospital-power-cords (https://www.monoprice.com/category/cables/power-cords/hospital-power-cords)
I tend to recommend 12AWG and bought 14AWG at the time for the onboard charger. I think it's just harder to find 12AWG in hospital grade hardware. I'm using 12AWG in my garage currently, but that's because I'd be drawing 15A from my 220V dryer outlet.
If your using 220v, then your current draw is half what mine is at 110v.
I was using a single DigiNow charger, not the onboard charger. My onboard charger died in spring of 2018, following the DC-DC converter failure which probably all stemmed from my mostly-downpour trip between San Francisco and Seattle the preceding October.
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Here's the OP's original damaged plug.
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Here's the OP's modified plug for comparison.
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Here's the OP's modified plug, from the side.
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I cropped the files to fit the forum size limit, but didn't limit the resolution, so you can see the fabrication in all its detail, I guess. They are really large photos, and maybe I should have downsampled them as well, but it works.
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Checked my cable, which I assume is the one that came from Zero (still had the tie on it when I bought the bike, I guess the dealer used a different cable to charge their demo bikes), and while it does have around 6mm of the black rubber and white plastic before the copper the hole for the earth pin is still only 18mm deep so removing the rubber wouldn't allow the plug to insert any further into the bike. Also as the earth pin goes completely into the slot it will be fully engaged with the contact, the only way to benefit from modifying the plug would be if the pins on the bike were too short.
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......and while it does have around 6mm of the black rubber and white plastic before the copper the hole for the earth pin is still only 18mm deep so removing the rubber wouldn't allow the plug to insert any further into the bike. Also as the earth pin goes completely into the slot it will be fully engaged with the contact, the only way to benefit from modifying the plug would be if the pins on the bike were too short.
Removing the +-4mm of the black rubber along with converting the last 4mm of rectangular to polygon (shape) of the C13 slows it to be inserted an additional 4mm thus increasing the contact point by the same amount (+-4 mm).