ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: MVetter on November 19, 2019, 08:45:31 PM
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Courtesy of Sev from Team Powersports in Raleigh, NC:
Ego+: $23,870
EVA Ribelle: $22,160
SS9+: $21,350
To help move the 13.4kWh bikes, prices for existing models has been adjusted:
Ego: $19,540
SS9: $17,620
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/75557391_10106709244896359_2526892722397118464_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQkaZPIFIIJCC8tkTVx1R0XoqqDX_p6plEHUAekSYhVOhxFU6Fgr5mlo6x3R1FsVuMoBGviWEFSWoV7fEe7yFL5X&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=4bdf0fe9057816367ffbe6438d93b7c3&oe=5E4EA201)
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At this price point, I'm not sure you have a reason to go with any other electric motorcycle brand if you're buying new and are riding street. Zero better step up their game and start making a bigger battery pack + DCFC.
Yes Zero makes several cheaper models - but they have range setbacks or charging setbacks.. so the price point is warranted I guess.
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At this price point, I'm not sure you have a reason to go with any other electric motorcycle brand if you're buying new and are riding street. Zero better step up their game and start making a bigger battery pack + DCFC.
Yes Zero makes several cheaper models - but they have range setbacks or charging setbacks.. so the price point is warranted I guess.
Anybody who buys one of Zero's less expensive models with plans on taking it cross country either needs their head examined, or a pickup truck with a wheel chock in the bed. That's NOT what they're built for. You wouldn't Motocross a Goldwing, so you wouldn't attempt a cross country tour on ANY electric bike unless you had a LOT of time and patience on your hands (I don't care HOW fast you can charge with DCFC, they aren't nearly as ubiquitous as gas stations yet).
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You wouldn't Motocross a Goldwing
And yet we all saw that video from 4 months ago of the two guys trying to do exactly that...
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Looks like I purchased my SS9 a bit too soon.
-Don- Payson, AZ (RV)
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I suspect part of the reason the US prices are as low as they are is because we all purchased the 13.4kWh models. If we'd all waited and no one bought the bikes they'd probably mirror EU prices.
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Looks like I purchased my SS9 a bit too soon.
-Don- Payson, AZ (RV)
Saddly, it is ALWAYS that way it's bad enough with ICE bikes and cars down right depressing with EV's especially now that we seem to be at a tipping point for bikes. This is an exciting stage in electric propulsion.
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So, the price went up huh? ;)
Granted not unreasonably but I knew it would go up. The base models went down so that's good.
Two questions still. Did they go up on the AC charger or is it still 3kW? Did they use their new battery tech in the base models to lower the weight of those bikes?
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So, the price went up huh? ;)
SS9+ price went up by, wait for it, $420. Awwwww yeah.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/a30a8768a0adcb2a089e89120d4dc9dc/tenor.gif)
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Anybody who buys one of Zero's less expensive models with plans on taking it cross country either needs their head examined, or a pickup truck with a wheel chock in the bed. That's NOT what they're built for. You wouldn't Motocross a Goldwing, so you wouldn't attempt a cross country tour on ANY electric bike unless you had a LOT of time and patience on your hands (I don't care HOW fast you can charge with DCFC, they aren't nearly as ubiquitous as gas stations yet).
I didn't say anything about going cross country. Even in California with DCFC going from SF to LA on an electric bike is still tough. Looking at the DCFC on Plugshare, a lot in the valley is either under construction or spread out. Best route is 99 I believe and if you're in the bay that.. is sorta out of the way.
As much as I like Zero, the fact that most of their bikes require an upgrade to use Level 2 is sad. If anything, Level 2 should be standard. I want the Santa Cruz based company to succeed so don't take what I'm saying as "anti-Zero" by any means. I hope they have DCFC in the works and bigger battery packs as I would much rather support a US/California based company.
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I have ridden 99 several times, but with the new packs 101 is easily doable. And a hell of a lot more enjoyable. Hell, 1 might even be doable and that's the dream, really.
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Ok extra points for using Snoop Dogg on the EMF, but subtracted points for cherry picking my comment. About $1200 more for the Ego+ and I'm not saying that's a bad price but you said prices would stay the same and I said "that can't be right" on the other thread.
I hope you know I'm just good natured busten your chops for fun.
It's still a very good value and if the buyer can have access to CCS chargers where they ride most even more so.
Do you have the answers to the two questions?
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AC charger did not change, which is fine. It'll help you get to the next DC station unlike the LiveWire.
I *suspect* they're not going to produce many more of the 13.4kWh packs with the new tech in place, and the existing models will just be sold at the discounted rate. As such they're probably not going to retroactively adapt new tech to the previous ones, so I am pretty sure the answer is no.
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AC charger did not change, which is fine. It'll help you get to the next DC station unlike the LiveWire.
I *suspect* they're not going to produce many more of the 13.4kWh packs with the new tech in place, and the existing models will just be sold at the discounted rate. As such they're probably not going to retroactively adapt new tech to the previous ones, so I am pretty sure the answer is no.
I really like the LiveWire but the price point is insane. If it was between ~$20-25k it would make much more sense. Even with it being less competitive on specs.. ~$30k starting price for a motorcycle is steep. I used to defend it hard, because I want the MoCo to succeed in electric.
Does Energica offer any sort of extended warranty on their bikes/battery packs? I'm curious how their battery packs hold up over time.
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Configurator in US is up:
https://configurator.energicamotorusa.com/start
Giacomo
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Thanks, MVetter.
Very nice bikes, I wish them luck and hope all who plan to pick a new longer range Energica enjoy that great smooth electric ride for years to come.
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I really like the LiveWire but the price point is insane. If it was between ~$20-25k it would make much more sense. Even with it being less competitive on specs.. ~$30k starting price for a motorcycle is steep. I used to defend it hard, because I want the MoCo to succeed in electric.
Does Energica offer any sort of extended warranty on their bikes/battery packs? I'm curious how their battery packs hold up over time.
When I bought mine this year no extended warranty was available.
As for pricing, when I upgrade I’ll probably end up at the LiveWire pricing since I plan on getting most options added, mainly the Ohlins suspension. I’m on the fence regarding the Oz wheels though. I like the look of the “base†wheels but I want to find out if there’s any weight savings with the Oz wheels and if they’re suitable for every day riding or if they’re more suited for track use.
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When I bought mine this year no extended warranty was available.
As for pricing, when I upgrade I’ll probably end up at the LiveWire pricing since I plan on getting most options added, mainly the Ohlins suspension. I’m on the fence regarding the Oz wheels though. I like the look of the “base†wheels but I want to find out if there’s any weight savings with the Oz wheels and if they’re suitable for every day riding or if they’re more suited for track use.
Thanks for the info!
Yeah, when I designed one it was nearly ~28-29k...
I was curious about the Oz wheels. I wish the "i" information tooltips on their configurator gave more information. Would be nice to know everything you listed.
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I've been in contact with the dealership in Livermore, CA, CalMoto, https://www.calmoto.com (https://www.calmoto.com) - they are asking for a $3,000 "Non-refundable" deposit to get on the waiting list. I was ready to place a deposit, but changed my mind because I still want to wait to see what (if anything) Lightning does with the 'Strike' - and also - I heard a rumor that Zero is planning on announcing 'something new' after the first of the year. I've had two Zero bikes (2012 and 2015) - they've been very good to me - I'm still hoping they step up to compete with the newer tech (CCS charging, for example).
Meanwhile - I'll keep saving my $ for a new toy - soon!
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I heard about the deposits, but I thought they were going to be half that. On the upside, we know Energica has consistently delivered on everything so far.
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I'm sure the deposits are just to help ease any production ramp-up until they've worked any issues out. Seems reasonable, anyway.
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Over the years I have placed deposits down on new, first-year model BMW motorcycles at Calmoto and they were never more than $500. To me a deposit of $3000 seems a bit much, especially as (I assume) they don't have a delivery date yet. It may take a while to get the new model Energicas into the U.S. and into their dealers' showrooms.
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They've delivered at least 3 to the US so far to show off at IMS, which is a good start.
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Over the years I have placed deposits down on new, first-year model BMW motorcycles at Calmoto and they were never more than $500. To me a deposit of $3000 seems a bit much, especially as (I assume) they don't have a delivery date yet. It may take a while to get the new model Energicas into the U.S. and into their dealers' showrooms
At any BMW shop, AFAIK, BMW has one set of requirements for BMW and a different set of requirements for other brands. For an example, you cannot use their BMW financing for anything other their BMWs in their shop. They use Freedom Road for their other brands, which also means a higher interest rate. The deposits will also be different. BMW bikes will have the best deals with deposits and financing, AFAIK, in any BMW shop. Other brands will have different requirements, qualifications and deposit requirements and usually will NOT be as attractive as the BMW deals.
BMW has their own financing and deals that is ONLY for BMW.
-Don- Payson, AZ (RV)
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Over the years I have placed deposits down on new, first-year model BMW motorcycles at Calmoto and they were never more than $500. To me a deposit of $3000 seems a bit much, especially as (I assume) they don't have a delivery date yet. It may take a while to get the new model Energicas into the U.S. and into their dealers' showrooms
At any BMW shop, AFAIK, BMW has one set of requirements for BMW and a different set of requirements for other brands. For an example, you cannot use their BMW financing for anything other their BMWs in their shop. They use Freedom Road for their other brands, which also means a higher interest rate. The deposits will also be different. BMW bikes will have the best deals with deposits and financing, AFAIK, in any BMW shop. Other brands will have different requirements, qualifications and deposit requirements and usually will NOT be as attractive as the BMW deals.
BMW has their own financing and deals that is ONLY for BMW.
-Don- Payson, AZ (RV)
I have never financed a motorcycle purchase. I always pay cash.
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Ducati gave us no-down-no-interest.
Which is why we had the cash for the Zero, honestly.
Financing is so weird.
-Crissa
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I have never financed a motorcycle purchase. I always pay cash.
That is so anti-American :) !
Often BMW has zero % financing on some bikes, so then why pay cash?
-Don- Payson, AZ (RV)
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I have never financed a motorcycle purchase. I always pay cash.
That is so anti-American :) !
Often BMW has zero % financing on some bikes, so then why pay cash?
-Don- Payson, AZ (RV)
Because when you have a vehicle financed you also have to purchase full insurance for each motorcycle, which is not cheap for a motorcycle - of which I have six and can only ride one at a time. So I self-insure against damage and only purchase insurance to protect third parties against my actions. For that I purchase 250K/500K liability insurance and that saves me a ton of money each year. (I have been riding motorcycles for 57 years and have only had one accident that was the result of falling over on a greasy 10 mph curve, so I figure I can afford to insure myself against self-inflected damage.) :)
About 15 years ago I inquired regarding full coverage for my Yamaha FZ1 from a motorcycle insurance company at a motorcycle show. I was told that the premium would be about $3000 a year for the Yamaha, which cost me $8,500 when new! :o So I find saving first and paying cash for a vehicle is the best way to cut ownership costs.
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Yeah, I get the shaft on insurance big time as I have many vehicles. On most, I have full coverage but with the highest deductible possible. Others, I only have liability, such as with the old (year 2000) RV I am in right now.
I hope to be able to buy a decent E-RV, but that will probably not happen in our lifetimes.
-Don- in RV in Sunny and clear Payson, AZ
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the $3k deposit figure comes from Energica. What it takes to get in line. These new ones are going to be in very, very high demand worldwide with a limited supply at first. They want to send the first presold ones to customers that are 100% committed in really taking it home. We've had people walk away from $500 deposits (our normal deposit on other bikes), but I doubt anyone would think of walking on $3k.
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I booked my SS9 Plus from Calmoto earlier in the week with $3K down - ETA is for delivery is apparently mid-to-late Feb.
The new bikes seem to be mechanically identical to the current gen except for the battery - is that correct? Or are there any other updates as well?
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It's not clear to me if there any mechanical changes on the SS9+, but apparently the bikes handle better since the center of gravity is lower and the bikes are 5% lighter.
Other changes for the SS9+ seem to be:
Updated electronics to support remote bike status monitoring
Optional keyless ignition
Increase in torque from 133 lb-ft to 148 lb-ft
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Welp...I just put down my deposit for a new Ribelle. I’m looking forward to the larger battery and increased power. I’ll probably keep my current EsseEsse9 so I’ll be able to provide some range comparisons once I have both. Unfortunately I don’t really have room for 3 bikes so my gas bike is going up for sale to make room for the new hotness.
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Now this is a wise man.
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Congrats BigPappa!
Somebody send that man an Energica T shirt or something.
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Welp...I just put down my deposit for a new Ribelle. I’m looking forward to the larger battery and increased power. I’ll probably keep my current EsseEsse9 so I’ll be able to provide some range comparisons once I have both. Unfortunately I don’t really have room for 3 bikes so my gas bike is going up for sale to make room for the new hotness.
I have room for one more :). The main reason I own three houses is to make room for my many vehicles.
Yeah, you lose too much in trade-ins, especially now when almost everybody wants the larger capacity battery.
Please do the range comparisons at a high freeway speed, such as 75 MPH. A good test would be a drive to my Auburn house! But I am taking this trip so slowly, I may not be back until springtime.
I have my Zero DS ZF 6.5 with me to get around on. Carried on a ramp on the hitch.
-Don- In nice warm Casa Grande, AZ (RV)
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I have room for one more :). The main reason I own three houses is to make room for my many vehicles.
Yeah, you lose too much in trade-ins, especially now when almost everybody wants the larger capacity battery.
Please do the range comparisons at a high freeway speed, such as 75 MPH. A good test would be a drive to my Auburn house! But I am taking this trip so slowly, I may not be back until springtime.
I have my Zero DS ZF 6.5 with me to get around on. Carried on a ramp on the hitch.
-Don- In nice warm Casa Grande, AZ (RV)
LOL...if you have room, you could add a second Trophy to your stable. ;)
I will definitely do 75-80 mph freeway range comparisons when I get the new bike but in all honesty, my daily commute is a mix of lane splitting and freeway cruising speeds. I may just reach out to you in the Spring to plan a few rides up to Auburn to test out pure freeway range at the speeds above.
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LOL...if you have room, you could add a second Trophy to your stable. ;)
I will definitely do 75-80 mph freeway range comparisons when I get the new bike but in all honesty, my daily commute is a mix of lane splitting and freeway cruising speeds. I may just reach out to you in the Spring to plan a few rides up to Auburn to test out pure freeway range at the speeds above.
I once had four Trophies overnight at my Auburn house. Includes the owner (Brad, who retired and sold the place) of Freedom Cycles in Reno. And two others from Reno. With mine, that was four TTSEs.
BTW, I have eight unused bedrooms available, including the master bedroom at my Auburn place which I reserve for guests. Others are in my two places in the Reno area. So you have a place to stay overnight in either Auburn or Reno or both, if you do not want or need to rush back. Or stay long as you want or can.
What I really want to know is if the new bike can make it from my Auburn place to my Reno place on a single charge, which is 99.0 miles, door to door, mostly uphill going east, on Hwy 80, at full freeway speeds. There are six places to fast charge on the way, so I can make it with my SS9 with a single charge stop near the summit. I would like to know if I can make that trip with only home charges on the new bike.
All those DC Fast Chargers on the way are EV-Go. They work very well with my SS9. But cost more than gasoline. I would save money if I rode my TTSE instead!
BTW, I have used the DC fast chargers at Harley in Rocklin and Reno (both are close to Hwy 80). They are ChargePoints, but they are free to use. But they only charge at 15 KW max. I can charge at the full 26 KW at the EV-Go stations if the conditions are right to allow that much charge.
If you really need a place to store your bike, it's fine with me, but Auburn is quite a distance from you. I have let others store their bikes at my places before, as they move or whatever. One was John (username there "KaliforniaKook") from the TTSE forum who moved from Southern CA to sparks, NV and didn't have the room at his place in Sparks for a while.
There are certainly good riding areas in the Auburn area. Iowa Hills pass SurgarPine lake is a great ride From Forest Hill to Colfax. I have done that ride, on my Zero SR, but it's a rather slow ride with some sharp turns doing almost a full 360 degrees.
-Don- Casa Grande, AZ (RV)
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Any chance you've gotten it yet and can give some stats on range/consumption?
I have room for one more :). The main reason I own three houses is to make room for my many vehicles.
Yeah, you lose too much in trade-ins, especially now when almost everybody wants the larger capacity battery.
Please do the range comparisons at a high freeway speed, such as 75 MPH. A good test would be a drive to my Auburn house! But I am taking this trip so slowly, I may not be back until springtime.
I have my Zero DS ZF 6.5 with me to get around on. Carried on a ramp on the hitch.
-Don- In nice warm Casa Grande, AZ (RV)
LOL...if you have room, you could add a second Trophy to your stable. ;)
I will definitely do 75-80 mph freeway range comparisons when I get the new bike but in all honesty, my daily commute is a mix of lane splitting and freeway cruising speeds. I may just reach out to you in the Spring to plan a few rides up to Auburn to test out pure freeway range at the speeds above.
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Not yet. I was told to expect a February delivery. I’m patiently waiting impatiently. ;)
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I will definitely do 75-80 mph freeway range comparisons when I get the new bike but in all honesty, my daily commute is a mix of lane splitting and freeway cruising speeds. I may just reach out to you in the Spring to plan a few rides up to Auburn to test out pure freeway range at the speeds above.
That will be great. Where are you coming from? I also live in Reno, NV and the main thing I want to know is if the 21.5 KWH battery can do this 99 miles of hills, in either direction, on a single home charge at normal freeway speeds, which is normally at least 5 MPH above the speed limits.
IOW, 70 MPH, 99 miles of hills, door to door. Mine needs one fast charge on the way, either direction. Usually near the summit.
-Don- Auburn, CA (back home already)
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Are any of yall using a larger, touring type wind screen? If so how much of an improvement in range did you get?
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Are any of yall using a larger, touring type wind screen? If so how much of an improvement in range did you get?
My (Dutch) dealer offers a touring screen on the Esse and has ridden the Esse with it. He has seen an -expected- improvement in consumption, but that was by his experience, no hard data. If possible, I am interested to do a side-by-side trip in spring to see how much kWh the gain is on a battery charge with a standard screen.
https://electricmotorcycles.nl/producten/121/touring-windscherm-esseesse9?categoryId=3
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Not yet. I was told to expect a February delivery. I’m patiently waiting impatiently. ;)
What happens with your new 2020 11.7 KWH SS9?
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I'm keeping it. I'll still ride it occasionally but it will probably be ridden mainly when the Ribelle is in the shop for tires and/or routine maintenance or I get tired of the more aggressive riding position and decide to switch it up from time to time.
The Trophy is still up for sale. Since the bike still being financed it's scaring away potential buyers. I'll probably pay it off this month and see if that helps get it out of the garage sooner.
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I'm keeping it. I'll still ride it occasionally but it will probably be ridden mainly when the Ribelle is in the shop for tires and/or routine maintenance or I get tired of the more aggressive riding position and decide to switch it up from time to time.
The Trophy is still up for sale. Since the bike still being financed it's scaring away potential buyers. I'll probably pay it off this month and see if that helps get it out of the garage sooner.
Yeah, I saw your TTSE up for sale in the BARF (Bay Area Rider's Forum). While the TTSE is a great bike, IMO, for some unknown reason, it doesn't sell all that well, neither new nor used.
I don't understand why paying it off makes any difference. It's the same amount of cash to the buyer either way.
BTW, you can see the way I do it. I keep my bikes forever. I never sell them and never trade them in. That way I never get "seller's regret".
BTW, isn't Energica going to put the 21.5 KWH battery as an option in all of their bikes?
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Finally the prices for Austria are up: https://vertical.world/energica-eva-esseesse9/ Not so bad, about 1600 EUR more than last years SS9 (which is now down to 20k).
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Yeah, I saw your TTSE up for sale in the BARF (Bay Area Rider's Forum). While the TTSE is a great bike, IMO, for some unknown reason, it doesn't sell all that well, neither new nor used.
I don't understand why paying it off makes any difference. It's the same amount of cash to the buyer either way.
BTW, you can see the way I do it. I keep my bikes forever. I never sell them and never trade them in. That way I never get "seller's regret".
BTW, isn't Energica going to put the 21.5 KWH battery as an option in all of their bikes?
-Don- Auburn, CA
I would keep the Trophy but I just don't have room for three bikes so one of them has to go and I decided it's the Trophy.
They are offering both 13kw and 21kw batteries in the Ego and EsseEsse9. The Ribelle is coming with the 21kw battery only. The Eva 107 isn't being offered this year and is effectively replaced by the Ribelle.
On a separate note, I was watching an Italian YouTube video review of the new Ribelle and they claim that in addition to the larger battery, there are handling improvements as well although I didn't watch the video far enough in to see if it's the frame/swingarm and/or suspension that's been improved.
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Finally the prices for Austria are up: https://vertical.world/energica-eva-esseesse9/ Not so bad, about 1600 EUR more than last years SS9 (which is now down to 20k).
Huh. Not familiar with this site, but it reports "Range (manufacturer)" as 230km, and "Range (experience)" as 150km.
reini, any idea what they mean by that? I thought noone outside Energica had test-ridden the new 21 kWh bikes yet, certainly not enough to do any range testing (and they have the same numbers for all the new 21kWh models).
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Huh. Not familiar with this site, but it reports "Range (manufacturer)" as 230km, and "Range (experience)" as 150km.
reini, any idea what they mean by that? I thought noone outside Energica had test-ridden the new 21 kWh bikes yet, certainly not enough to do any range testing (and they have the same numbers for all the new 21kWh models).
They are the only dealer in Austria. They have a few years experience with Energicas, and I think that they are simply extrapolating from their experience with current bikes (and also try to be conservative as to not disappoint new buyers).
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On a separate note, I was watching an Italian YouTube video review of the new Ribelle and they claim that in addition to the larger battery, there are handling improvements as well although I didn't watch the video far enough in to see if it's the frame/swingarm and/or suspension that's been improved.
So I finally finished watching the Italian YouTube video and they say the improved handling is due to the lower center of gravity from the physically smaller 21kwh battery.
https://youtu.be/XbiI4nmz4KE
If I had to guess, the size reduction is probably due to a difference in packaging vs anything directly related to the cells but only Energica knows for sure. ;)
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I wonder if they shortened the wheel base to help the cornering?
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Eva Ribelle.... Really, really like that bike !!!!
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Eva Ribelle.... Really, really like that bike !!!!
What is it that you like most about it? I know nothing about that bike, but I will probably see one this Saturday in Livermore.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Eva Ribelle.... Really, really like that bike !!!!
What is it that you like most about it? I know nothing about that bike, but I will probably see one this Saturday in Livermore.
-Don- Reno, NV
Well.... The Italian's always seem to get things with wheels right.... I have been following Energica closely, to include their Moto GP efforts.... Impressed with the new specs.... Energica appears to be the real deal and serious.... AND the Ribelle is just knockdown gorgeous !!!! Good chance I will be at CalMoto as well....
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I plan to be there too. But I will be riding my F650GS and not my Zero as the distance is too far to travel there and back at freeway speeds. I intend to get there shortly after 9am to take advantage of the light traffic on Saturday morning.
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I plan to be there too. But I will be riding my F650GS and not my Zero as the distance is too far to travel there and back at freeway speeds. I intend to get there shortly after 9am to take advantage of the light traffic on Saturday morning.
I will probably be there later in the early afternoon, and even that's assuming no chain control over the mountains tomorrow. It's snowing here in Reno right now and it's heavy snow up at the summit. I expect them to close I-80 any minute up there. They already have it closed to "ALL TRACTOR-SEMITRAILER COMBINATIONS." They expect up to two feet of snow before this storm is over with at 0100 hrs on Friday morning.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I really like the LiveWire but the price point is insane. If it was between ~$20-25k it would make much more sense. Even with it being less competitive on specs.. ~$30k starting price for a motorcycle is steep. I used to defend it hard, because I want the MoCo to succeed in electric.
Does Energica offer any sort of extended warranty on their bikes/battery packs? I'm curious how their battery packs hold up over time.
When I bought mine this year no extended warranty was available.
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There's a press release on the site where they were considering a "value plan" option at end of warranty you could purchase a warranty extension. Haven't seen more about that.
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Well, I bit the bullet, put a deposit down on the SS9+.
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Well, I bit the bullet, put a deposit down on the SS9+.
Congratulations! No doubt you will love the bike.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Well, I bit the bullet, put a deposit down on the SS9+.
Now the worst part.....the waiting without a set delivery date
Mean while I hit the gym, need to work out my legs so I don't drop all that weight down ;D
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Indeed. Should I expect some warning from Arlie (CalMoto) or Stefano that the bike is arriving so I can set up the financing?