ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: valnar on October 27, 2019, 07:57:22 PM
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This was asked before a few years ago but I don't think a consensus was found.
Does anyone know what the equivalent custom settings are for factory ECO and Sport mode? Specifically in regards to an FX/FXS.
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I was looking for the same information for my DSR.
I ended up experimenting and now my custom mode is: 40% torque, Neutral regeneration 0%, and Brake regeneration 100%.
40% torque it's obviously higher than the original ECO.
At this point I am still curious what is the torque setting in ECO mode.
Using one of those app that can time 0 to 60MPH, one can do that on ECO mode and then reduce torque in Custom mode, until getting to the same time, and fiding the misterious setting. Maybe next summer I will do it. Regarding Neutral and Brake regeneration, I don't even care what are the original settings, because I only want 0% for neutral and 100% for braking
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I Regarding Neutral and Brake regeneration, I don't even care what are the original settings, because I only want 0% for neutral and 100% for braking
Try setting your deceleration regen at 20% and see if you can tell any difference at all. I can't. I figure a little regen is better than none. Even at no deceleration regen, the Zeros do not coast very well and at 20% I notice no difference but it's still enough to get one bar of regen.
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
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I Regarding Neutral and Brake regeneration, I don't even care what are the original settings, because I only want 0% for neutral and 100% for braking
Try setting your deceleration regen at 20% and see if you can tell any difference at all. I can't. I figure a little regen is better than none. Even at no deceleration regen, the Zeros do not coast very well and at 20% I notice no difference but it's still enough to get one bar of regen.
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
It seems to me that it's just a way to waste energy, because every time that you are transforming mechanical energy to electric and back to mechanical there are losses. It's like installing a wind generator on the bike thinking of getting some free electricity, but that will take more extra power from your battery than you will gain. This is just my opinion based of my understanding of how motors and generators works.
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It seems to me that it's just a way to waste energy, because every time that you are transforming mechanical energy to electric and back to mechanical there are losses. It's like installing a wind generator on the bike thinking of getting some free electricity, but that will take more extra power from your battery than you will gain. This is just my opinion based of my understanding of how motors and generators works.
If that was always true, there would be no such thing as regen. A waste of energy is when you MUST slow down and do not use regen.
But the bottom line is for you to try it at 20% and then tell me if you notice any difference. Even at 0% regen you're wasting energy that could be used to charge the battery just a little. If the Zeros coasted better at zero regen, then I would keep it totally off also. But the only noticeable difference is a weak charge instead of none at all.
FWIW, my Energica coasts very well with no regen at all. A lot better than the Zeros. So I keep it off when on the hilly freeway between Reno and Auburn on my SS9. But I find 20% is best on the Zeros. Try it and see what you think.
I have tried it off and left it that way for a while, until I discovered 20% makes no noticeable difference and probably increases range just a little by it charging the battery just a little. So I keep both my Zeros at 20% regen and regen off on the Energica until I get into traffic.
Perhaps the SS9 coasts well downhill with no regen because the bike is heavy. Zeros are light by comparison. Anyway, Zeros slow down faster than I would expect at 0% regen and I cannot notice any difference at all at 20% when coasting. So at least try it.
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
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I love the discussion but I'm afraid this thread will end like the 2016 one. :'( Surely somebody is in the know?
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I love the discussion but I'm afraid this thread will end like the 2016 one. :'( Surely somebody is in the know?
Sure, but the ones in the know all work for Zero. ;D
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
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Related question:
How different (or same) are the power/torque curves in custom vs sport mode, when i set 100% torque in custom mode?
Will 0-60 times be ideal in both modes with 100% torque?
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In custom settings, you set brake regen to max, throttle to 0, and max torque to max. Then just ride in custom all the time.
If you want ego mode, do not twist the throttle to far or fast and let it coast as much as possible.
All the rest of the settings then become useless.
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I wonder if anyone tried to ask Zero directly.
Regarding our "argument" Don, and I am not saying that I am right and you're wrong, it's just my personal, logical conclusion based on what I know ( and maybe I don't know all the relevant information) , I can't help asking you this: when you turn on the A/C in your car, can you feel any difference on how your car it's driving/ coasting? I personally can't, but it's a known fact that the engine will use a little more gas because of that.
I am not trying convincing anybody to do it in my way, it's still a free country :) , everybody should do what they believe that will work better for them, and be happy.
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In custom settings, you set brake regen to max, throttle to 0, and max torque to max. Then just ride in custom all the time.
If you want ego mode, do not twist the throttle to far or fast and let it coast as much as possible.
All the rest of the settings then become useless.
I totally agree with you, but unfortunately with 100% torque, your throttle control will have to be unhuman precisely , so not easy to achieve the ECO acceleration .
When I started riding my 2019 DSR, in the first days I keep forgetting to set my Custom mode, and because neutral regeneration setting in ECO mode was annoying me to much, one day I switched to Sport thinking that I will just take it easy when accelerating, the pavement was wet after a rain (not raining anymore) and my wheel was spinning when leaving from a stop light, no matter how easy I was accelerating. Again, this is not advice, just my experience/opinion (I have to add this to my signature :) )
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Sure, but the ones in the know all work for Zero. ;D
Yeah, I don't get why it's a secret to keep their customers in the dark. If nothing else, it could be a safety concern to not inform your riders what "Sport" is actually doing. This is a policy for no reason.
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when you turn on the A/C in your car, can you feel any difference on how your car it's driving/ coasting? I personally can't, but it's a known fact that the engine will use a little more gas because of that.
I am not trying convincing anybody to do it in my way, it's still a free country :) , everybody should do what they believe that will work better for them, and be happy.
But this is the opposite since you're charging more, not draining more on what we notice no difference on. But I think in reality, it makes so little difference that it's probably not even worth this discussion. If there is a gain either way, it will probably be less than ten feet more range one way over the other per charge, and each ride could have different results :-\ . The real gain of regen is when we must slow down a little. Every time we must slow down, we are wasting energy, so we should try to get as much back as possible.
-Don- Reno, NV
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[/quote]The real gain of regen is when we must slow down a little. Every time we must slow down, we are wasting energy, so we should try to get as much back as possible.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Totally agree with you, and the fact that when you start braking on a zero, first stage is just activating the regeneration and only if you press more you engage the brake system, it's very helpful in this regard.
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when you turn on the A/C in your car, can you feel any difference on how your car it's driving/ coasting? I personally can't, but it's a known fact that the engine will use a little more gas because of that.
That's a bit of outside the scope.. in a gas based vehicle the efficiency of the motor is in it's 40%.. So spending 5%-10% more energy doing something is hardly noticeable (or even if at all).
In a BEV the efficiency of the engine is in it's 90%.. Anything affecting it (like increased friction or just more wind going in your opposite direction) WILL increase energy use.. Noticeably.. As such, regen does matter. Although, on my quite heavy Model S, it was still just 2%.
It seems i must be the only one on this forum using 100% throttle regen.. I tried everyone's favorite 20%, but that just gave me the need to use the brakes a lot more.. And not just brake regen, actual brakes.. The brake regen also became much less enjoyable, kicking in with a noticeable jerk.. By starting with throttle regen, then moving over to braking regen as i needed, and ending up with just braking made the entire process of slowing down considerably more smooth.
I ride my DSR with 100% torque as well. Not really an issue, and yes I've tried starting from standstill in pouring cold rain.. Did not get wheelspin.
I did however get wheelspin when doing WOT in a cornering move on wet road.... Interesting experiment, not intended.. Didn't go down though.
I find it weird that people are experiencing so much more issues with control.. Only theory I can surmise is that having ridden BEV's for several years, and a very powerful one at that, I'm more in tune with their throttle response..?
It was more of a changing pants type of situation when i lost grip on my Model S in snow going 130 km/h towards a 90 degree bend with a trailer on my inside than what i have experienced with the DSR so far..
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You're not the only one. I use 100% throttle regen too. I've pointed out time after time that regen only kicks in when you roll the throttle all the way off to the stop. If you keep it off of the stop, you don't get regen; you coast. It's easy enough to see for yourself. My custom mode is 100% torque, 100% throttle regen and 100% braking regen. When riding the twisties I seldom touch the brakes at all, just use the throttle (which is similar to how I ride my ICE bike).
I use "Eco" mode on the highway as a "Poor Man's Cruise Control." Holding the throttle WFO means I cruise along at 70 mph. Our posted speed limits here are only 55mph, but if you do that, you will be passed like you're standing still and get a LOT of dirty looks from your fellow drivers. At 70 I'm pretty much keeping pace with traffic; passing a few, getting passed by a few.
Once off the highway, I click back into my "Custom" mode so I can more easily dice through traffic. I find the "Sport" mode completely useless.
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My bike reports regen while 'coasting' no matter what I set the engine regen to. I think the lowest I can get it to is like ~20%. I've also lowered the braking regen to 50% because I was having stuttering at 100%, and I live in a very hilly area, so that was just being annoying.
-Crissa
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My bike reports regen while 'coasting' no matter what I set the engine regen to. I think the lowest I can get it to is like ~20%. I've also lowered the braking regen to 50% because I was having stuttering at 100%, and I live in a very hilly area, so that was just being annoying.
-Crissa
Does the 2014 get OTA updates? Mine used to be flaky in the settings until I upgraded the FW. I was MANY versions behind. My first update had to be done at the dealer, just last August. After that one delaer FW update, I can do them myself. To my surprise there have been a couple of more updates that I did myself since then.
-Don- Reno, NV
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No, 2014 requires a dealer to do it. Newer ones do it over bluetooth. I think only the SR/F does over the air.
But yes, my firmware is up to date.
But even Custom set to 0% I get regen bars down the hill. I haven't found a hill I actually increase speed on.
-Crissa
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No, 2014 requires a dealer to do it. Newer ones do it over bluetooth. I think only the SR/F does over the air.
But yes, my firmware is up to date.
But even Custom set to 0% I get regen bars down the hill. I haven't found a hill I actually increase speed on.
-Crissa
My Zeros use Bluetooth to the SmartPhone and the internet on the smartphone to get the updates. All except the very first FW update that MUST be done at the dealer. After that, I can do them myself.
The Energica must always be done at the dealer. It's a very large program. But if it needs an update, I will probably will not even know. And what I don't know shouldn't be a problem, as long as it runs and charges etc., as well as it does now. :)
My Tesla M3, does true OTA updates, the only vehicle I own that does it directly.
I wonder if your bike is only showing the bar but really has no regen when set to zero %. On my bikes, I cannot tell any difference between one bar of regen (20%) and zero %, but I get no bars at Zero %.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I get definite braking action at anything under a 10% grade, so I'm pretty sure it's still giving me regen.
I can actually pick up speed on a steeper hill. A much steeper hill. Like the one I live on ^-^ But only the steepest parts.
-Crissa
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I get definite braking action at anything under a 10% grade, so I'm pretty sure it's still giving me regen.
I can actually pick up speed on a steeper hill. A much steeper hill. Like the one I live on ^-^ But only the steepest parts.
-Crissa
Zeros do not coast very well even at 0% regen. I have no idea why.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Zeros do not coast very well even at 0% regen. I have no idea why.
I've noticed the same thing. At first I was just thinking it's got higher-drag wheel bearings or something, or maybe poorer aerodynamics than most bikes, but I'm wondering now if there's some drag created by the motor when you're at 0 throttle, even with regen turned off. Some sort of eddy currents or something consuming a small amount of power.
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Have you guysts tried pushing one?
The motor and magnets are always engaged. Turn up regen settings, and it's even harder to push!
-Crissa
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Zeros do not coast very well even at 0% regen. I have no idea why.
I've noticed the same thing. At first I was just thinking it's got higher-drag wheel bearings or something, or maybe poorer aerodynamics than most bikes, but I'm wondering now if there's some drag created by the motor when you're at 0 throttle, even with regen turned off. Some sort of eddy currents or something consuming a small amount of power.
My Energica coasts MUCH better than the Zeros when the regen is off. The Energica is more like I would expect. So I normally keep regen off in the hills so I can get my best range from coasting.
I have also wondered if the Zeros have a little regen even when set for 0%. I cannot notice any difference at all when set for 20% deceleration regen, other than the one bar I see.
Perhaps (unlike the Energica) the Zero has no true "off" for deceleration regen and when set for 0% percent it is simply at it's very minimum which is really more than 0%.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Have you guysts tried pushing one?
I push mine every day (that I ride anyhow)....out of the garage, into/out of parking spaces, etc.
But it is a relatively big and heavy machine, and pushing it is never going to be easy. The rumor is that the little groaning noises you hear while pushing is the bike actually helping you a bit, even if the switch is off, to avoid the "cogging" forces which would otherwise make it really difficult to push. I don't think "cogging" is the right word, but it may be the right idea. Maybe the compensation is just a little bit too low...if I was designing it, I'd purposely make it a bit low, to avoid actually accelerating if it worked out a bit high.
I'd also design the compensation feature to switch off at any detectable road speed...you only want it at pushing speed. So yeah, I think any dissipative forces would be at full effect once you get up to speed.
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I have two bikes to push that are about the same weight.
The Zero is nearly impossible to push when set to 100% regen. The Ducati could coast down a 5% grade. The Zero at 0% regen cannot.
The Ducati I have to be careful that it doesn't roll away when in Neutral.
Although the Zero will roll off its stand at very little incline, it has a very low natural speed due to the motor drag.
-Crissa
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The Zero is nearly impossible to push when set to 100% regen.
If that is the case, I must have superhuman strength.. (hint: I don't..)
Just as Doug, I push mine in and out of a garage almost every day.. It's always set to 100% regen.
I placed it in custom mode the day i bought it, never changed it back to any other modes.
I will agree it is heavier to push than another bike at equal weight. Noticeably so, but I would rather compare it to a bike of about twice the size. (Around 300 kg.. So like an Energica weightwise.. Maybe more)
I wouldn't mind that reverse creeping gear though.. That's a really nice feature.
Too bad Energica dropped out of my local market. Not being able to service it is a huge dealbreaker.
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Too bad Energica dropped out of my local market. Not being able to service it is a huge dealbreaker.
I plan on doing all the service on my SS9 myself (unless not possible). There is a service manual available for it in PDF that explains just about everything (stuff that is not in the owner's manual).
-Don- Reno, NV
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I plan on doing all the service on my SS9 myself (unless not possible). There is a service manual available for it in PDF that explains just about everything (stuff that is not in the owner's manual).
That's always a possibility for those that have the space.. However.. Not having a local service center(not in the country at all) also means sourcing parts is an issue.. not to mention if you do get somewhere to order, you also need to wait much longer for shipping, handle your own customs declaration and so on..
The hassle does not outweigh the difference in product enough to warrant it. :/
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Too bad Energica dropped out of my local market. Not being able to service it is a huge dealbreaker.
I plan on doing all the service on my SS9 myself (unless not possible). There is a service manual available for it in PDF that explains just about everything (stuff that is not in the owner's manual).
I wish any of Energica's models appealed to me in the slightest as an owner. A PDF service manual is civilized. How did you obtain it? Simply request it as an owner? I know that not even their owners' manual is available to the public, except on purchase / by owner request.
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I wish any of Energica's models appealed to me in the slightest as an owner. A PDF service manual is civilized. How did you obtain it? Simply request it as an owner? I know that not even their owners' manual is available to the public, except on purchase / by owner request.
I know just what you mean. For an Italian company, their styling is remarkably unattractive... Most Italian motorcycles are works of art (except for Ducati's Terblanche era).
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I wish any of Energica's models appealed to me in the slightest as an owner. A PDF service manual is civilized. How did you obtain it? Simply request it as an owner? I know that not even their owners' manual is available to the public, except on purchase / by owner request.
I simply asked Cal-Moto to email me the Service Manual and it was in my mailbox by the time I hung up the telephone.
The owner's manual (real paper book) comes with the bike, but it is also available in PDF. Basic maintenance stuff is NOT in it, such as how to change the oil/coolant. All that is in the service manual only.
What is it that you don't like about the Energicas? It's my favorite bike out of my ten for most of my riding. I find the short range not to be much of an issue compared to the long charge times of the Zeros. I like to stop once an hour anyway and CCS chargers are located all over the major freeways and hwys (except eastern NV!). Now that they have such in Grass Valley, I sometimes take Hwy 20 between here and Auburn, with a side route through Willow Valley.
Nevertheless, I would still prefer more range and would love to have that 21 KWH battery in mine, especially if it can charge at closer to 50 KW.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I wish any of Energica's models appealed to me in the slightest as an owner. A PDF service manual is civilized. How did you obtain it? Simply request it as an owner? I know that not even their owners' manual is available to the public, except on purchase / by owner request.
I simply asked Cal-Moto to email me the Service Manual and it was in my mailbox by the time I hung up the telephone.
The owner's manual (real paper book) comes with the bike, but it is also available in PDF. Basic maintenance stuff is NOT in it, such as how to change the oil/coolant. All that is in the service manual only.
That's interesting. I've received through "sneakernet" a copy of the owner's manual and found it pretty full compared to Zero's but yes it does stop short of common maintenance tasks, oddly. It also doesn't describe high-voltage systems / powertrain, but that doesn't surprise me because of the professional certification required.
What is it that you don't like about the Energicas? It's my favorite bike out of my ten for most of my riding. I find the short range not to be much of an issue compared to the long charge times of the Zeros. I like to stop once an hour anyway and CCS chargers are located all over the major freeways and hwys (except eastern NV!). Now that they have such in Grass Valley, I sometimes take Hwy 20 between here and Auburn, with a side route through Willow Valley.
Nevertheless, I would still prefer more range and would love to have that 21 KWH battery in mine, especially if it can charge at closer to 50 KW.
The mass is just too much to deal with for where I live, on a steep and craggy hill with bad pavement. Even my garage floor is slanted.
I don't like the complication of the gearbox, sump, and chain. I don't need those things, and Energica's priorities mean for now that those are standard across the product line.
I don't need or want the power that Energica offers. I literally would find the bike more valuable with lower power output.
I don't feel as secure with the 3-year warranty on the Energica battery, and the relative opacity they've shown regarding their powertrain internals. I realize that their fast charging rate probably relates to that, which is enviable, but it's not a tradeoff that seems right if Zero is an option.
Energica does not offer hard luggage options or luggage racks. This is a real deal-breaker, if for no other reason than my passenger/pillion will have nowhere to put their things or nowhere to rest their back when I open the throttle. Energica bikes are not really made for 2-up riding.
Finally, Energica is a racing/track-centric company, which is fine, and honestly their product line is great for what it is. But it's not for me. That racing/track DNA is to me quite visible even in the SS9 and I can't shake the impression that Energica will probably never understand my concerns more than, say, Ducati. To explain, Ducati has taken two decades to slowly make its bikes more friendly to the low-key daily rider, and the fact is that's not where their heart is, and it shows. I would expect not much different from Energica.
I have plenty of things to find frustrating about owning a Zero and dealing with them as a company, but for all of that, they produce a bike that is the closest to my market position: focus on daily+utility riding with enough fun to accentuate the ride when the road allows, and a simple, repairable, serviceable platform that I can depend on improving for the road, not the track. The SR/F isn't a model for me, for example, but the platform is commendable. I want them to meet and exceed 20kWh, have some DC fast-charging solution, and build some fairing support into the frame. And I want less power than the SR/F, which sounds ridiculous, but I'll point out that insurance charges a lot based on the maximum performance of the vehicle, which factors into the total cost of ownership.
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The mass is just too much to deal with for where I live, on a steep and craggy hill with bad pavement. Even my garage floor is slanted.
The Energicas have a reverse and slow forward. Both are at 1.75 MPH at WOT and I have found this makes the bike easier to deal with than the lighter Zeros, by far. My Auburn house only has about a foot of level space in front of the garage. Bringing the Zero back is a hassle (because many other bikes in the garage). No hassle at all with my Energica.
I don't like the complication of the gearbox, sump, and chain. I don't need those things, and Energica's priorities mean for now that those are standard across the product line.
I prefer the chain to a belt. Belts sometimes break with no warning. That doesn't happen with chains these days.
I don't need or want the power that Energica offers. I literally would find the bike more valuable with lower power output.
Use Urban mode. It will be much like a Zero SR in Sport. Want even less, use eco mode. Want even less, use rain mode. Regen is independent from mode selection. But "low" seems like a bit too much to me when on the freeways, so I keep it off on the hilly part of I-80. The bike coasts a lot better than a Zero.
I don't feel as secure with the 3-year warranty on the Energica battery, and the relative opacity they've shown regarding their powertrain internals. I realize that their fast charging rate probably relates to that, which is enviable, but it's not a tradeoff that seems right if Zero is an option.
Yep, no doubt it has to do with the 25 KW CCS charging. But there is always the choice to use a J1772.
Energica does not offer hard luggage options or luggage racks. This is a real deal-breaker, if for no other reason than my passenger/pillion will have nowhere to put their things or nowhere to rest their back when I open the throttle. Energica bikes are not really made for 2-up riding.
Yeah, no travel trunk available, AFAIK. But the side cases open up very wide when they are unzipped for more room. They hold a lot more than they look like they will.
Finally, Energica is a racing/track-centric company, which is fine, and honestly their product line is great for what it is. But it's not for me. That racing/track DNA is to me quite visible even in the SS9 and I can't shake the impression that Energica will probably never understand my concerns more than, say, Ducati. To explain, Ducati has taken two decades to slowly make its bikes more friendly to the low-key daily rider, and the fact is that's not where their heart is, and it shows. I would expect not much different from Energica.
Yeah, it's hard for me to believe that their other two bikes are even faster than mine. Mine is scary fast as it is in Sport. It's already ridiculously fast and their other two bikes are beyond that. My normal riding is in Urban mode and that is still very fast.
I have plenty of things to find frustrating about owning a Zero and dealing with them as a company, but for all of that, they produce a bike that is the closest to my market position: focus on daily+utility riding with enough fun to accentuate the ride when the road allows, and a simple, repairable, serviceable platform that I can depend on improving for the road, not the track. The SR/F isn't a model for me, for example, but the platform is commendable. I want them to meet and exceed 20kWh, have some DC fast-charging solution, and build some fairing support into the frame. And I want less power than the SR/F, which sounds ridiculous, but I'll point out that insurance charges a lot based on the maximum performance of the vehicle, which factors into the total cost of ownership.
I cannot see less power being an advantage when we can set it to anything we want, other than perhaps the cost of the insurance, which isn't that much of an issue to me. I have 16 vehicles to keep insured and I really don't keep track of the costs. I am not rich or anything, but quite comfortable. I retired in the top one percent of retired incomes--from my job there in San Francisco! I worked for 34 years as an Emergency Radio Systems Technician for the City & County of SF . The last 15 years I worked nights at the 9-1-1 Center on Turk Street, waiting for things to break, as I watched movies, played around on the web and other such hard work. A genuine sinecure. I had no bosses on the site, so I mainly did whatever I wanted until something broke.
At the time, I lived in SSF. Sold that dumpy house and bought a mansion (by comparison) in Auburn and a couple of more houses here in Reno (other 18 miles NW of here in Cold Spring Valley).
-Don- Reno, NV
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The mass is just too much to deal with for where I live, on a steep and craggy hill with bad pavement. Even my garage floor is slanted.
The Energicas have a reverse and slow forward. Both are at 1.75 MPH at WOT and I have found this makes the bike easier to deal with than the lighter Zeros, by far. My Auburn house only has about a foot of level space in front of the garage. Bringing the Zero back is a hassle (because many other bikes in the garage). No hassle at all with my Energica.
Good for you. I have/had a reverse gear on my Zero and preferred it, but the bike was still not easy to handle, and it was not pleasant in a near-drop or post-drop situation. The SS9 would weigh at least 100lbs more than my bike did. I don't look forward to that.
I don't need or want the power that Energica offers. I literally would find the bike more valuable with lower power output.
Use Urban mode. It will be much like a Zero SR in Sport. Want even less, use eco mode. Want even less, use rain mode. Regen is independent from mode selection. But "low" seems like a bit too much to me when on the freeways, so I keep it off on the hilly part of I-80. The bike coasts a lot better than a Zero.
That does not change the fact that the insurance is higher, and it invalidates the point of all that excess weight, to justify the power. The bike just has a lot of excess.
I don't feel as secure with the 3-year warranty on the Energica battery, and the relative opacity they've shown regarding their powertrain internals. I realize that their fast charging rate probably relates to that, which is enviable, but it's not a tradeoff that seems right if Zero is an option.
Yep, no doubt it has to do with the 25 KW CCS charging. But there is always the choice to use a J1772.
You're saying that 3kW AC charging is somehow an excuse to own an Energica, despite the shorter battery warranty even if I do that. That's silly.
You don't have to reply to all my comments. I'm not replying to all of yours.
Energica does not offer hard luggage options or luggage racks. This is a real deal-breaker, if for no other reason than my passenger/pillion will have nowhere to put their things or nowhere to rest their back when I open the throttle. Energica bikes are not really made for 2-up riding.
Yeah, no travel trunk available, AFAIK. But the side cases open up very wide when they are unzipped for more room. They hold a lot more than they look like they will.
That's not hard luggage, period, which makes it weather-vulnerable and less secure. And there's no top case, which is more important than side cases both for storage and keeping a passenger from falling off. Still a deal-breaker for me, and there's nothing for you to respond about.
I have plenty of things to find frustrating about owning a Zero and dealing with them as a company, but for all of that, they produce a bike that is the closest to my market position: focus on daily+utility riding with enough fun to accentuate the ride when the road allows, and a simple, repairable, serviceable platform that I can depend on improving for the road, not the track. The SR/F isn't a model for me, for example, but the platform is commendable. I want them to meet and exceed 20kWh, have some DC fast-charging solution, and build some fairing support into the frame. And I want less power than the SR/F, which sounds ridiculous, but I'll point out that insurance charges a lot based on the maximum performance of the vehicle, which factors into the total cost of ownership.
I cannot see less power being an advantage when we can set it to anything we want, other than perhaps the cost of the insurance, which isn't that much of an issue to me. I have 16 vehicles to keep insured and I really don't keep track of the costs. I am not rich or anything, but quite comfortable. I retired in the top one percent of retired incomes--from my job there in San Francisco! I worked for 34 years as an Emergency Radio Systems Technician for the City & County of SF . The last 15 years I worked nights at the 9-1-1 Center on Turk Street, waiting for things to break, as I watched movies, played around on the web and other such hard work. A genuine sinecure. I had no bosses on the site, so I mainly did whatever I wanted until something broke.
At the time, I lived in SSF. Sold that dumpy house and bought a mansion (by comparison) in Auburn and a couple of more houses here in Reno (other 18 miles NW of here in Cold Spring Valley).
Good for you for cashing out and not having to worry about money. I don't have that privilege. I'm younger (42) and struggling to have a place with a decent garage at all. I can't even imagine owning 16 vehicles, and neither can most people below 45 any more. Remember that when dishing out bike recommendations.
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Yeah, I didn't want to say that, Brian.
The dream 'next bike' is probably an Energica for my spouse, but... Cost will make that really, really improbable.
-Crissa
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I have/had a reverse gear on my Zero and preferred it,
I too prefer my Zeros for most of my riding, just not all. BTW, I would like to know how you did your reverse in your Zeros. I may wanna do the same with my SR.
That does not change the fact that the insurance is higher, and it invalidates the point of all that excess weight, to justify the power. The bike just has a lot of excess.
Seems very light after I ride my Harley (around 1,000 lbs)! But sure, there are some bikes I would not want for some areas, including the hills of SF. BTW, Richard said the same thing here about the SS9 "Too much of everything except range". You're saying that 3kW AC charging is somehow an excuse to own an Energica, despite the shorter battery warranty even if I do that. That's silly.
Nope. I am only saying the battery will last longer if only Level Two charging is used. I would assume much longer than the warranty. Even the Energica manual says use L2 when there is a choice.
Good for you for cashing out and not having to worry about money. I don't have that privilege. I'm younger (42) and struggling to have a place with a decent garage at all. I can't even imagine owning 16 vehicles, and neither can most people below 45 any more. Remember that when dishing out bike recommendations.
I never felt that I was giving out any recommendations. I was simply explaining how I see things for my needs / wants and well understand your needs may be a lot different. We are all going to decide for ourselves, of course. There are many models of bikes for a reason. There are many that other people love that I will not even look at, and vice versa. I understand that as well as anybody.
Yeah, I know finding a garage in SF is a hassle. Even a lot of the houses there have no garage and those who have one to rent make a bundle. I have known people in SF who had to rent a garage. SF is a ridiculously expensive place to live, when it comes to housing.
I am now headed for Auburn, now that PG& E won't be turning off the AC power for a while (going by looking at the weather reports) Leaving on my little Kaw 650 ICE bike. I need to give them all some exercise before the gas goes bad.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Just got a 2018 FX and resurfacing this thread from original questionL
Does anyone know what the equivalent custom settings are for factory ECO and Sport mode? Specifically in regards to an FX/FXS.