ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Ramsay Snow on October 26, 2019, 02:07:23 AM
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Hi folks!
Thinking of getting a FX/FXS. I commute about 10 miles within; Chicago I use my SR for that. But with winter coming it won't be long before the SR will go into storage. I have been looking at FXs with the modular pack for occasional trail riding, but maybe it can double as a winter beater? For reference: Chicago does get cold snaps of like-20C, but that's the exception. Winter for purposes of this discussion is usually light snow, some ice, and -5 C.
Anyone ride their Zero's in cold weather (sub-Zero temps if you will)? How does the battery hold up (especially on the smaller modular power packs)? The SR doesn't seem to like temps below 10C especially at lower SOC values: i got limited to 60mph at like 10C and SOC=20%.
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Did you read Zero Below Zero (https://www.google.com/search?rls=en&q=zero+below+zero)?
If you can charge at room temp, that would benefit the bike greatly and would make it play better. It would have thermal mass when you take them out to the bike that your SR didn't have. You could choose a smaller heated engine wrap for the FX than would be needed for the S-platform.
I don't really have experience with riding in that cold, but Chicago does have unique plains-like windchill which is what I think your biggest hurdle! I visited my sister there a couple years ago and that was my first experience with negative temperatures F. But would that cold balance being able to have mobility when the roads are at their worst? I'd certainly feel safer on a winter'd-up FX than my Mazda in that weather, but I don't know if I'd freeze or not ^-^
-Crissa
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Thanks for the ZbZ recommendation. Started reading: exactly what I needed.
Charging at room temp is one of the reasons i want the modular batt. I already have a DeltaQ Qiuq charger since my onboard died on the SR.
I'm not particularly concerned with matters of personal comfort as long as the bike can handle it. If it does get unreasonably cold there's always the car, or train. I just don't want to part with riding for the entire winter.
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Winter is coming. ;)
A few years ago they did a project to see if an FX could hold up to hard winter riding. This video gives you an idea and there is a link in the description section to the full project and results (sorry they took it down). Of course the best thing to do is move south. :) We shut the state down when it snows.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zsAuu31uHk
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Internet archive has a copy: https://web.archive.org/web/20161201165054/https://www.aerostich.com/blog/zero-below-zero/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20161201165054/https://www.aerostich.com/blog/zero-below-zero/)
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I got my license to ride a motorcycle ( Power cycle back then ) a little over 50 years ago.
Early on, I rode all the time. for the last couple decades, I have been a wuss, only riding in
nice weather.
FX Charging inside should offer better options for the bike.
You have more intestinal fortitude than I to attempt such
a thing.
Good Luck
Be Safe
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Please watch out for ice! Yowza. I hit a small ice patch on my dirt bike and was down instantaneously. It happened particularly fast, and was particularly painful.
Salt must be pretty bad for electronics. It might actually be better to leave it in freezing temps all the time (i.e. not in a garage), then if the temp reaches above freezing, rinse it thoroughly.
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In will recommend studded tires, and insulating the battery with a cover or something.
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Thanks all! I do have a car and trains apparently exist, so I do have options for when things get bad. Just need to get a beat up enough FX.
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We shut the state down when it snows.
How often does it snow there in Georgia?
Here it snowed in September on Reno's Street Vibrations (http://roadshowsreno.com/sv_fall.php), on its main day (Saturday). But has not snowed here since.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Maybe one event on average a year.
Our problem is we have just a handful of snow equipment trucks and the ground is often warm enough to turn the snow to a sheet of ice.
I tried to get out in it two years ago and as I got to the end of the subdivision there was a Jeep sliding sideways down the main road for about 70 yards so back home I went.
They get on the news and say "please just stay home" the wreckers start crashing and then the cops so we just wait a day or two and it's gone.
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If it gets very cold your belt may be loose enough to skip on a hard acceleration, and slightly overtight in the mid-day sun. One of those quirks learned from winter commuting at 4am in the mountains. Keep your SoC above 40% on the ZF6.5/ZF7.2 and above 20% on the ZF13/ZF14.4 in any situation where it will be cold-soaked, or else make real sure it is actively charging. Test all charging ports you may have mounted to be sure they will drain water in the kickstand-down orientation and any frozen residue does not prevent plugging. Always cover your bike to make snow cleanup easier; Hi-Viz cover is really good to keep other vehicles away in whiteout conditions.
Heated vest with its own battery can save you a few miles of range over an hour ride. On the FX that might really be important because limp mode limited power profile can adversely affect handling on ice and snow.
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I ride all year round in Cincinnati. I had an FXS and now I have a DSR. I've ridden both through the winter season and have had no issues with the battery while riding in cold weather. I remember the power on the FXS being noticeably reduced when it was very cold outside; not as much on the DSR. I kept them both stored in a semi-heated garage so charging wasn't an issue. Of course you also need the proper gear. My commute is about 8 miles each way. I've ridden when the temperature was in the single digits.
Ice is your enemy. I don't ride if there is any snow or ice on the roads.
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Nice, thanks for the input. I have a Tesla, but that has a battery heater. The only difference is energy expenditure goes up, way up. So I was curious about how things go without the heater.
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Nice, thanks for the input. I have a Tesla, but that has a battery heater. The only difference is energy expenditure goes up, way up. So I was curious about how things go without the heater.
I notice a drop range on my Zeros when cold. No issues with charging since my bike was fairly new. I had one time on a very hot day when I could not charge when the bike was only a couple of weeks old. But there have been many FW updates that change stuff in the BMS and that probably allows charging when a bit warmer now. Perhaps the same when cold. But I never had a problem charging when cold. But when it is very extra cold, I will take one of my ICE bikes instead anyway.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Nice, thanks for the input. I have a Tesla, but that has a battery heater. The only difference is energy expenditure goes up, way up. So I was curious about how things go without the heater.
Yes, expect range and power reduction when it is very cold outside.
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I hope you don't have any hills to negotiate or need for higher speeds or acceleration. My Zero FXS couldn't climb any decent hill at anything above 45 mph once the bike had been outside in sub 20 degree weather. My commute on the way to work was fine because my bike was in the garage at night, but after being left outside in the cold, my ride home became very slow sometimes when it was in the "teens" outside.
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Luckily Chicago is flatter than an EV torque curve. Highway on/off ramps are the biggest hills i'll have to occasionally conquer.
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Riding my '18 FXS 7.2 around Chicago has not been too bad in the chillier times. My commute is 10 miles, basically all on LSD, so I'm riding at "highway" speeds. When I rode to work on Friday, ice was the biggest problem in the morning when the temperature was 0C. I put it in ECO mode so I didn't do any unexpected donuts, and only had the back tire spin on me once. I was riding conservatively. On the way home after it warmed up a few degrees celsius, I switched back to SPORT mode and was able to fly home. I had no problem hitting 80, but it kinda topped out there.
Thinking back to some cold days last winter, there were times when it would top out around 65-70, but I don't remember the air temps at those times.
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It never gets that cold out here, but riding through the mountains I sorta wish my Zero dash had an external temperature sensor display so I'd know what temps coincided with what performance...
...Mostly so I can wear the right number of gloves and coats...
But riding in that weather sounds really awesome ^-^ Makes me want to visit my sister.
-Crissa
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The battery (well, a monolith) does have an ambient temperature sensor, in addition to 7 internal sensors. This is logged but not displayed anywhere, and the location of the sensor isn't in the wind. I don't know where it'd be on a modular or longbrick battery, but I'd guess it'd be in the doghouse.
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I forgot to mention that one thing Aerostich did for their "Zero Below Zero" blog bike was to wrap the batteries in a custom heated wrap.
For a while, I was working on a simpler derivative, a "battery cozy" which more or less amounted to 3mm (1/8") thick neoprene sheeting, cut, sewn, and tied-down to the battery area to keep the wind and precipitation from hitting the casing. It's not so much that it insulates too much, but it is enough that the battery surface temperature doesn't drop terribly in winter, keeping performance up.
You'll still lose range in the cold from increased air resistance, but battery performance degradation from internal resistance changes can be mitigated.
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I think I need a battery cozy. These past couple days the top end has been non-existent. The air temp has been between -11c and +3c, and my FXS has been topping out between 50 and 60 mph.