ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Lightning => Topic started by: mistasam on September 17, 2019, 01:10:05 AM
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All photos belong to Kevin Barnard.
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More from the factory
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Some of the bike on a ride to SF
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Glad to see it finally making it to the street!
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This is what we need more of.
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Any word on delivery date for yours?
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Hey the windscreen has LS218 on it in the one shot. It looks like the same bike in all shots. Not even a Strike?
Is this the South Africa guy?
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@NEW2elec
The text LS218 is on the dude's arm behind the windscreen.
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Ok I see it now, thanks. The idea of LS218 on a sleeve never entered my mind.
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Any word on delivery date for yours?
I'm giving them time to sort out the charging (it seems like this bike only has a J1772 port) and I also won't be back in California until January. I need to test ride it before buying it, so sadly I have to wait. It's torture to see someone riding one around, but also a good sign that the company is selling them now ;D Now the real test for them is selling a 2nd one.
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Now the real test for them is selling a 2nd one.
Amen. One delivery does not a production lot make. Still not much to see here...though anything at all is a vast improvement!
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I thought the Strike Carbon edition was supposed to have all of the available options. Maybe CCS isn't an option now? I compared photos and it sure doesn't look like it has CCS.
But delivering only one bike isn't a good sign. Of course that is assuming there is actually a factory with a production line like we have been lead to believe. Would think that multiple bikes would have been shipped at one time. At least a few to get in the hands of the motorcycle press but maybe there is a reason Hatfield doesn't want to do this. Lightning sure has a different way of doing business!
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OK - now that the Strike is on the street - I'm talking to YOU - GUY THAT RODE IT HOME - What's it like?
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OK - now that the Strike is on the street - I'm talking to YOU - GUY THAT RODE IT HOME - What's it like?
You mean rode it back to the Lightning factory from San Francisco to San Jose - at 35 mph on El Camino Real. ;)
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I saw on their website they have a clarification about shipping. The "reservation" is free shipping. The motorcycle shipping is on the buyer.
So you won't need to pay for any of those damn email stamps when you send in a reservation so that's good. ;)
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Well it's nice to see the bike even runs. We still don't have any good video or feedback.
So if they are delivering the production motorcycle now I assume they are shipping a dozen of these a day?
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HoodRichOG, You would think they would be and Strikes would be getting delivered everyday. Doesn't seem to be the case though. The Chinese factories are going to be producing completed bikes on a daily basis. Lightning has no dealers and there is no indication that they have a stock of bikes ready for immediate sale. So where is the output of those Chinese factories going? Is Lightning simply a designer for motorcycles that are for the Chinese market and that is where the output of those factories are going? Based on very limited marketing in the US it doesn't seem Lightning wants to sell motorcycles in the US market. But maybe the Chinese market is easier and more lucrative? Just speculating here.
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There doesn't seem to be a Chinese language lightning site so I don't see how that would make sense.
Are we sure that Chinese factory photo isn't Photoshop?
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HoodRichOG, You would think they would be and Strikes would be getting delivered everyday. Doesn't seem to be the case though. The Chinese factories are going to be producing completed bikes on a daily basis. Lightning has no dealers and there is no indication that they have a stock of bikes ready for immediate sale. So where is the output of those Chinese factories going? Is Lightning simply a designer for motorcycles that are for the Chinese market and that is where the output of those factories are going? Based on very limited marketing in the US it doesn't seem Lightning wants to sell motorcycles in the US market. But maybe the Chinese market is easier and more lucrative? Just speculating here.
They are only manufacturing the parts in China. Assembly takes place in California.
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They are only manufacturing the parts in China. Assembly takes place in California.
I wonder if they are, though. Is it not feasible they're entirely pre-built and now they can't afford the tariffs?
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They are only manufacturing the parts in China. Assembly takes place in California.
I wonder if they are, though. Is it not feasible they're entirely pre-built and now they can't afford the tariffs?
That is my thought, also. But who knows for sure? Not me. ???
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HoodRichOG, You would think they would be and Strikes would be getting delivered everyday. Doesn't seem to be the case though. The Chinese factories are going to be producing completed bikes on a daily basis. Lightning has no dealers and there is no indication that they have a stock of bikes ready for immediate sale. So where is the output of those Chinese factories going? Is Lightning simply a designer for motorcycles that are for the Chinese market and that is where the output of those factories are going? Based on very limited marketing in the US it doesn't seem Lightning wants to sell motorcycles in the US market. But maybe the Chinese market is easier and more lucrative? Just speculating here.
There are virtually no motorcycles in China, imported or local, larger than the equivalent of 300cc standard ICE bikes, and the ones that exist are mostly for police or the military.
There's essentially no local market there for anything like a developed-country middleweight ICE sportbike, let alone anything larger, or expensive BEV versions.
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I just watched three videos by a fellow who purchased a $1500 Chinese electric motorcycle. The manufacturer claimed that it had a top speed of 70 mph, but when the fellow rode his it could only hit 34 mph. He imported it directly from China and had to pay a $400 tariff, along with a bunch of other fees that added over $1000 to the price. He said that he had an appointment with the DMV to get the bike registered in California, where he lives. Boy, is he going to have fun that day. :o And then he will have to purchase insurance. Good luck with that, too. ::)
It is a nice looking sportbike, which is driven by a hub motor and a couple of small batteries. The fellow took the bike apart and the components looked Micky Mouse to me, as you might expect at that price. Well, you know what they say. You get what you pay for. I have restrained myself from posting a link to his three YouTube videos (so far) as I doubt you want to see the insides of a cheap Chinese electric motorcycle. ;)
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LOL Richard no need to post them I saw them too. :)
A simple China electric motorcycle search pulls up some interesting videos for sure.
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So have they delivered Strike #2, or has "mass production" stopped at one delivery?
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So have they delivered Strike #2, or has "mass production" stopped at one delivery?
It seems the one they delivered wasn't the final product (10kWh battery, no DC charging), and will be upgraded as soon as they sort out the US/China importing issues. I'm assuming they want to wait before selling any more.
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What importing issues?
Importing from China to USA should be a piece of cake... it's not like they are the first to do it.
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*shrugs
They said Trump's new tariff (as of a few months ago) made it more difficult to get their batteries.
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That doesn't make any sense.
But ok.
If in doubt, blame the government!
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That doesn't make any sense.
But ok.
If in doubt, blame the government!
"more difficult" most likely as in higher BoM costs. Being a startup with no appreciable revenue (that I've seen), they have to be cash strapped.
Their investment to date has been mostly angel money, to the tune of $2M-$4M, depending on source. I've seen no indication they have a large strategic investor.
That's not a lot of money for series production, and few suppliers will give a startup any significant credit to buy components.
Recall it took Zero a few years before the Tier1 motorcycle suppliers were willing to sell to them at all.
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Why wouldn't they be able to get bank financing for the purchase?
If a 25% tariff on one part is enough for them to stop manufacturing, sounds like the whole thing is either poorly planned or entirely fake.
Are they just idling their supposed "Chinese factory"?
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Why wouldn't they be able to get bank financing for the purchase?
If a 25% tariff on one part is enough for them to stop manufacturing, sounds like the whole thing is either poorly planned or entirely fake.
Are they just idling their supposed "Chinese factory"?
Maybe not unable, but also far from trivial -- the parts for each Carbon Edition bike are certainly >$10K (probably more like $15K), which would add up.
It's not just one part -- probably most of the bike.
Not that easy for startups to get significant loans without security -- probably needs an investment bank.
A big change in planned costs (and 25% is very big) will certainly be an issue; maybe they can solve it, but it could take time.
Also, re the Chinese factory, irrelevant. Recall, they assemble the Strike in a San José facility. No chance they actually own the Chinese factory -- they're a small startup. That factory is probably working for quite a few other customers making components.
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Crosshelmet said the same thing - they had a parts supplier reneg on a contract to get a better price so they had to find different sources.
So far it hasn't hit any of our shipments, but I will say shipping has spiked going to the UK and there is alot of uncertainty in the market right now for parts.
A 25% tariff is a huge hit to the final price as not just the components with the tariff are hit - competing products will also raise their prices to make up the difference. And the tariffs are usually negotiated as being part of the total deal - not tacked on like sales tax. So you buy a part for a $1, either that part gets stuck in customs and you pay a 25¢ (plus fees) to get it out of hock, or the shipper eats the tariff, and they don't want to do that.
That's alot of extra cash that has to show up on short notice and no, banks won't finance it.
-Crissa
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So why don't they just raise the price then?
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PR nightmare.
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So why don't they just raise the price then?
Good question. ;) If the Strike has the performance and specifications as previously advertised, a 25% increase in price would still be a bargain.
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PR nightmare.
PR nightmare?
LOL!
Do you think Lightning knows what PR is?
I guess you don't need any PR if you aren't actually selling something.
A 25% would still be a bargain, they can call it the ultra launch edition or something and then drop the price later if they feel like they dont have enough demand and they find another supplier. Happens all the time.
Blaming Trump for their inability to execute in a timely manner is complete and total bullshit and you know it.
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All else aside you have to be impressed with Lightning's ability to convince everyone they have the most amazing product there is. I have gotten into heated arguments with people who were upset when I told them the bikes don't exist. They swore to me they had friends that owned them.
Turns out they did not. They scrambled and tried to use Leno as an example. "Leno doesn't own one. He got to ride it but he didn't get to keep it."
Hell, Lightning doesn't even have a 218mph record. Their AMA/FIM record is 203mph.
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I don't know that many people are "convinced" Lightning has anything other than one bike that has been on the road from the couple of videos they have. I acknowledge only that their specs on paper are far superior to any other electric bikes' specs on paper.
If they never make it for the real world at that performance, range, and price then the specs should have been written on toilet paper.
Side note: He can call it the Lightning LS 5000 if he wants and imply it can go 5000 MPH. They do admit that the claimed speed of 218 was with high gearing and an areo pod to go that fast, so as long as they don't claim the street version of the LS 218 can do that then I put it down as a naming choice and move on. (I'd love to know what the street bike can actually do)
I give them credit for going faster than I ever want to go on a motorcycle. And the Pike's Peak record run and overall win was very good for all electric motorcycles so they get a hat tip for that one too.
Now they need to dig deep and put these bikes on the road in mass numbers. If they can. Which is still the big question.
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Side note: He can call it the Lightning LS 5000 if he wants and imply it can go 5000 MPH. They do admit that the claimed speed of 218 was with high gearing and an areo pod to go that fast, so as long as they don't claim the street version of the LS 218 can do that then I put it down as a naming choice and move on.
But they do claim that...
The Wikipedia definition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Production_vehicle) of "production vehicle" is:
The characteristics of a production vehicle or production car are mass-produced identical models, offered for sale to the public, and able to be legally driven on public roads (street legal).
and that's the only way I've ever seen the term used.
Lightning say on their website (https://lightningmotorcycle.com/product/performance/):
The Lightning SuperBike became the world’s fastest production electric motorcycle with the SCTA official World Record of 215.960 mph and a best timed run of 218.637 mph at Bonneville during Speedweek in August. Our SuperBike also holds the world land speed record for the fastest production motorcycle, electric or otherwise. Making it not only the fastest electric bike available, but the fastest bike available (period)
Since the LS-218 isn't a mass produced bike (evidence of only one actual bike sold, to the person who posted about it in this forum recently, and that was a custom-drivetrain version; several magazine articles refer to one sold in 2014, but no other reference to this anywhere), that's a lie -- there isn't a street version at all. Even if there were a street version, a custom full-coverage aero fairing and custom gearing certainly aren't "production", so the entire claim is fraudulent.
Further, the same page says:
The Lightning Electric SuperBike has a usable freeway speed range of over 100 miles and a combined city and highway EPA range of over 150 miles
AFAIK, the EPA does not test or publish any efficiency/range figures for motorcycles at all, electric or ICE.
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Wavelet I'm not going to bat for them to defend there questionable business practices. I agree that they didn't meet the "production" standard for sales of the LS 218. All I'm pointing out is no one who knows the facts of the salt flat run should expect to go 218 MPH on the street bike.
In the Jay Leno video he admits how the bike was set up to go that fast. On the website under the LS 218 tab there is a picture of the bike.
Under the 218 number is says "with high speed gearing and fairing". The "fairing" is a fully enclosed aerodynamic pod not the sport bike fairing.
So I know I'll never ride the salt flats, I don't have the the air pod, and I wouldn't have the high speed gearing. Thus I wouldn't go 218 MPH but if you know those bits of information you wouldn't ever believe that you could buy that street bike and go 218 MPH.
My guess and only a guess is it could go about 180 MPH in the street bike configuration. How long before it over heats is another question.
I "hope" they can make the carbon Strike the way they claimed they could, at the price they quoted. At this point I have very strong doubts that they can but I will gladly admit I was wrong if people start getting them and loving them. I try to keep an eye on them and just wait.
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I wonder how many people put down the $10K USD (or was it more?) deposit required when ordering the Carbon model and what they think about their decision now? ???
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Wavelet I'm not going to bat for them to defend there questionable business practices. I agree that they didn't meet the "production" standard for sales of the LS 218. All I'm pointing out is no one who knows the facts of the salt flat run should expect to go 218 MPH on the street bike.
In the Jay Leno video he admits how the bike was set up to go that fast. On the website under the LS 218 tab there is a picture of the bike.
Under the 218 number is says "with high speed gearing and fairing". The "fairing" is a fully enclosed aerodynamic pod not the sport bike fairing.
So I know I'll never ride the salt flats, I don't have the the air pod, and I wouldn't have the high speed gearing. Thus I wouldn't go 218 MPH but if you know those bits of information you wouldn't ever believe that you could buy that street bike and go 218 MPH.
My guess and only a guess is it could go about 180 MPH in the street bike configuration. How long before it over heats is another question.
I "hope" they can make the carbon Strike the way they claimed they could, at the price they quoted. At this point I have very strong doubts that they can but I will gladly admit I was wrong if people start getting them and loving them. I try to keep an eye on them and just wait.
For sure. Having worked a lot with startups myself, caveat emptor certainly applies; though none were in automotive, I've personally reviewed business plans and technology overviews for ~1200+ startups in the fields of SW, internet infrastructure & applications and medical devices, and met about half of the associated entrepreneur teams in person.
I was just responding to your "so as long as they don't claim the street version of the LS 218 can do that then I put it down as a naming choice " comment.
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Yeah I guess really they claim it then disclaim it with their * of the gearing and fairings.
For that reason I won't hold their feet to the fire over the name 218.
I backed one start up and luckily had my butt well covered. I'll leave it to the pros from now on.