ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: JaimeC on September 08, 2019, 08:15:30 AM
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https://www.motorcycle.com/mobos/best-electric-motorcycle-of-2019.html
No surprise, really.
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https://www.motorcycle.com/mobos/best-electric-motorcycle-of-2019.html
No surprise, really.
"making the SR/F almost 30% less than the Livewire."
Why compare to the Livewire? IMO, every electric motorcycle gives more for our money than the LW.
Somebody needs to tell them to do a reasonable comparison. Compare the SR/F to the Energicas and then see how the SR/F holds up.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Because it's from Harley Davidson. No other reason than that.
At least they didn't waste any time mentioning the vaporware Lightning Strike.
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Because it's from Harley Davidson. No other reason than that.
But as somebody once said here the entire purpose of the LiveWire must be to make all other electric bikes look like a big bargain. IOW, perhaps Zero, Energica and other electric motorcycle companies companies paid HD to set the price and poor specs and such. ;) The real intent could be for HD to not sell any Livewires. ;D
At least they didn't waste any time mentioning the vaporware Lightning Strike.
Seems like vaporware to me also. But did I hear something here about Energica is coming out with a 20KWH battery? Or is that a vaporware battery?
-Don- Reno, NV
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I asked my Energica dealer about that 20kWh battery rumor and he said that he had heard it too. What he didn't say is that it wasn't true. ;)
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I asked my Energica dealer about that 20kWh battery rumor and he said that he had heard it too. What he didn't say is that it wasn't true. ;)
At least for now, it's a vaporware battery.
Is your "Energica dealer" Cal-Moto in Mtn View? And if you have been in there lately, do they have a SS9 in there again yet?
-Don- Reno, NV
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I asked my Energica dealer about that 20kWh battery rumor and he said that he had heard it too. What he didn't say is that it wasn't true. ;)
At least for now, it's a vaporware battery.
Is your "Energica dealer" Cal-Moto in Mtn View? And if you have been in there lately, do they have a SS9 in there again yet?
-Don- Reno, NV
I was there 10 days ago. No new Energicas were in the showroom and that includes no new SS9. They were down to just the two that have been there for a while. Maybe the rumors of the new 2020 models have cut the legs out from under the market for the current versions? ??? That sort of thing has happened in the past, especially when marketing new technology. ;)
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I was there 10 days ago. No new Energicas were in the showroom and that includes no new SS9. They were down to just the two that have been there for a while. Maybe the rumors of the new 2020 models have cut the legs out from under the market for the current versions? ??? That sort of thing has happened in the past, especially when marketing new technology. ;)
I assume you mean a 2021 model, as my SS9 is a 2020 model.
To me, if there are enough charge stations around, a larger battery only means wait twice as long, but half as often. I would prefer the more charge stations to a larger battery. I like the shot breaks once an hour or so.
Between here and Auburn, on I-80, there are at least six locations to CCS charge from, evenly spread out, each with more than one charger. Add in the J1772 charge stations, there are a lot more. I just wish it were like that everywhere. Perhaps someday it will be, but perhaps not in our lifetimes. But it sure is improving fairly quickly.
BTW, it seems to me that the Zero SR/F is a hot selling bike, unlike any of the the Energicas. I wonder why, when the SR/F compared to any of the Energias. The SS9 charges at 25KW, yet can still use a J1772 at 3 KW. Uses a drive chain that does not snap, is a lot more comfy that the SR/F, has a reverse, etc. I wonder if the main reason is the lack of Energica dealers to the point most have never even heard of it. That includes me, until i started reading about them in this forum.
-Don- Reno, NV
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To each his own when it comes to belts vs. chains. I've had five motorcycles with belts (three Buells and two Zeros) and NEVER snapped a belt in over 100,000 miles combined use. That includes that skinny little belt the 2016 S came with, too. I prefer the nice, clean, low-maintenance belt over a messy, high maintenance chain any day of the week (though I prefer the practically maintenance-free drive shaft on my K1200LT over all).
I suppose if I went off-road frequently I'd think differently though.
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To each his own when it comes to belts vs. chains. I've had five motorcycles with belts (three Buells and two Zeros) and NEVER snapped a belt in over 100,000 miles combined use. That includes that skinny little belt the 2016 S came with, too. I prefer the nice, clean, low-maintenance belt over a messy, high maintenance chain any day of the week (though I prefer the practically maintenance-free drive shaft on my K1200LT over all).
I suppose if I went off-road frequently I'd think differently though.
And we have also heard of belts breaking the very first 100 miles or so on a new bike, while on smooth pavement. See here at 3:45 (https://www.reddit.com/r/motorcycles/comments/cnvm0e/i_broke_a_22000_zero_srf_electric_motorcycle/) for an example.
On the Zeros, converting to a chain is considered an upgrade. (https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=90827&sku=ZM10-08127&description=Zero+MC%27s+Chain+Conversion+Kit+%2D+ZM10%2D08127) I have bikes with shafts, belts and chains. I don't consider chains to be "high maintenance". Simply spray some stuff on the every thousand miles or so, not a big deal.
I have had drive shaft problems on my old BMW and they are usually more serious. And sometimes greasing them or changing their gear oil is more hassle than spraying a drive chain.
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
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To each his own when it comes to belts vs. chains. I've had five motorcycles with belts (three Buells and two Zeros) and NEVER snapped a belt in over 100,000 miles combined use. That includes that skinny little belt the 2016 S came with, too. I prefer the nice, clean, low-maintenance belt over a messy, high maintenance chain any day of the week (though I prefer the practically maintenance-free drive shaft on my K1200LT over all).
I suppose if I went off-road frequently I'd think differently though.
Good to know. Just installed the Luna cycles fat belt kit on my 14 Zero SR. I love quiet belts. Anytime I ride with an Energica or a Brammo I am reminded of that.
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Good to know. Just installed the Luna cycles fat belt kit on my 14 Zero SR. I love quiet belts. Anytime I ride with an Energica or a Brammo I am reminded of that.
I like the sound of all of them, yet each has its own sound, some more quiet than others.
I am curious what the LiveWire will sound like. They should be at the HD dealers in a week or so.
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
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Good to know. Just installed the Luna cycles fat belt kit on my 14 Zero SR. I love quiet belts. Anytime I ride with an Energica or a Brammo I am reminded of that.
I like the sound of all of them, yet each has its own sound, some more quiet than others.
I am curious what the LiveWire will sound like. They should be at the HD dealers in a week or so.
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
Harley Davidson INTENTIONALLY put in a straight-cut gear "transmission" to route the power to the rear wheel for the express purpose of generating more "noise." Go figure.
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Harley Davidson INTENTIONALLY put in a straight-cut gear "transmission" to route the power to the rear wheel for the express purpose of generating more "noise." Go figure.
And when my Harley Road Glide was first designed, it had 100% balancing and Harley decided it was way too smooth. So they redid the balancing to 75% to induce some vibration so the riders "would know they are on a motorcycle".
There are three ways to do things:
1. The right way.
2. The wrong way.
3. The Harley way.
-Don- Reno, NV
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DonTom, I think you're on to something about availability of Energica dealerships. I have never seen an Energica outside pictures, and the dealer map is pretty empty for the interior of the US.
I do hope they eventually bring DCFC to my SR/F via a super charge tank or something. However, I still haven't even used a level 2 charger in Chicago. Most of them are locked inside expensive parking garages. Also, I'm curious about the comfort of the SS9. My sit bones fit on the SR/F really well, so I find riding it quite comfortable, and I'm wondering if the SS9 is even more comfortable!
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DonTom, I think you're on to something about availability of Energica dealerships. I have never seen an Energica outside pictures, and the dealer map is pretty empty for the interior of the US.
I do hope they eventually bring DCFC to my SR/F via a super charge tank or something. However, I still haven't even used a level 2 charger in Chicago. Most of them are locked inside expensive parking garages. Also, I'm curious about the comfort of the SS9. My sit bones fit on the SR/F really well, so I find riding it quite comfortable, and I'm wondering if the SS9 is even more comfortable!
It may depend on each person's size, but I found the SR/F to be very uncomfortable. Pegs up too high and neck must be held up a little because of the more sporty position. OTOH, the SS9 was so comfy that I did not want to change anything at all. It's one of the most comply bikes I have ever been on. However, yesterday I rode a buddy's 2019 BMW RT1250 and I can say the same for it.
I doubt Zero will have a faster charge available ever if they stick with the 116V battery. Energica has a 300 volt battery which matches CCS. Zero would have to start from the beginning to build a bike to accept CCS.
-Don-
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I was there 10 days ago. No new Energicas were in the showroom and that includes no new SS9. They were down to just the two that have been there for a while. Maybe the rumors of the new 2020 models have cut the legs out from under the market for the current versions? ??? That sort of thing has happened in the past, especially when marketing new technology. ;)
I assume they come from Redwood City. I just got some info. that Redwood City is having 20 new bikes delivered there in a few days, so I assume CalMoto will have a new shinny SS9 next week or so.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I was there 10 days ago. No new Energicas were in the showroom and that includes no new SS9. They were down to just the two that have been there for a while. Maybe the rumors of the new 2020 models have cut the legs out from under the market for the current versions? ??? That sort of thing has happened in the past, especially when marketing new technology. ;)
I assume they come from Redwood City. I just got some info. that Redwood City is having 20 new bikes delivered there in a few days, so I assume CalMoto will have a new shinny SS9 next week or so.
-Don- Reno, NV
I'll let you know if I see any new Energicas the next time I visit Calmoto. ;)
BTW, it is my understanding that Calmoto sends their Energica bikes requiring anything other than chassis servicing to the Redwood City facility to be worked on. On the other hand, I haven't heard a firsthand account of that actually happening, except in the case of a warranty issue.
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I'll let you know if I see any new Energicas the next time I visit Calmoto. ;)
BTW, it is my understanding that Calmoto sends their Energica bikes requiring anything other than chassis servicing to the Redwood City facility to be worked on. On the other hand, I haven't heard a firsthand account of that actually happening, except in the case of a warranty issue.
My SS9 is there in Redwood City right now, because I only got one key with my SS9. The master and the other spare was lost by them and never found. That means they have to change my immobilizer to make me a new set of three keys.
They picked up the bike from my house in Auburn and they will also do my 600 mile service and bring the bike back, all at no expense to me. The bike is already done, we are now just now discussing when to bring it back, but the 20 new bikes they are getting will keep them extra busy for a while, that's how I knew about it. I told them they may pick the date and there is no hurry, as I have nine other bikes to ride and I need to start giving my seven ICE bikes some more exercise.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I'll let you know if I see any new Energicas the next time I visit Calmoto. ;)
BTW, it is my understanding that Calmoto sends their Energica bikes requiring anything other than chassis servicing to the Redwood City facility to be worked on. On the other hand, I haven't heard a firsthand account of that actually happening, except in the case of a warranty issue.
My SS9 is there in Redwood City right now, because I only got one key with my SS9. The master and the other spare was lost by them and never found. That means they have to change my immobilizer to make me a new set of three keys.
They picked up the bike from my house in Auburn and they will also do my 600 mile service and bring the bike back, all at no expense to me. The bike is already done, we are now just now discussing when to bring it back, but the 20 new bikes they are getting will keep them extra busy for a while, that's how I knew about it. I told them they may pick the date and there is no hurry, as I have nine other bikes to ride and I need to start giving my seven ICE bikes some more exercise.
-Don- Reno, NV
You can't beat that service. It sounds like Energica really tries to make their customers happy and to do everything that they can to solve warranty problems. :)
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You can't beat that service. It sounds like Energica really tries to make their customers happy and to do everything that they can to solve warranty problems. :)
Update: I get my SS9 back on Thursday.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Don, I was shopping both the SR/F and the 9. I *really* wanted the 9 (I did end up with the SR/F). Every time I looked at the SR/F and the esse esse 9 side by side I just kept coming back to it. I really just liked the way it looked. But the more I sat on the decision and thought about it, the better the SR/F started looking holistically.
Ultimately came down to two major points. I live in a state that doesn't allow Tesla sales. Everyone here that has one had to get it from the neighboring state. That gets reflected in our charging infrastructure. There are only three level 3 DC chargers within 100 miles of here. Level 2 is significantly more prevalent, but not exactly on every street corner.
The second big issue was dealer proximity. The closest Energica dealer is something like 800 miles away. I just couldn't rationalize having to crate and ship the bike back if anything went wrong with it - or if it needed a firmware update. I have a Zero dealer about 60 miles away.
I wanted to ride them both, I had spoken briefly with the dealer in Austin about flying out and riding both bikes when they got their SR/F demo.
Ultimately decided that since I'm not a connoisseur, I'd almost certainly enjoy riding either bike.
Now if I lived in a more urban area with more L3 stations and a closer dealer, it would have been a much harder decision. But FWIW a reverse option and chain weren't deciding factors at all.
Kind of long, but I'll end it by saying that when I bought the bike, I knew it was going to be a 3-5 year relationship. I bought what I felt would be the best bike over the next 3 years, expecting that the landscape is going to change so dramatically over that period with better batteries, better/more charging, and more compelling designs.
I'm definitely keeping an eye on Energica to see what they do. If the dealer network matures and they come out with something next gen that resonates as much as the esse esse 9 did with me, I'd probably make the jump.
I was there 10 days ago. No new Energicas were in the showroom and that includes no new SS9. They were down to just the two that have been there for a while. Maybe the rumors of the new 2020 models have cut the legs out from under the market for the current versions? ??? That sort of thing has happened in the past, especially when marketing new technology. ;)
I assume you mean a 2021 model, as my SS9 is a 2020 model.
To me, if there are enough charge stations around, a larger battery only means wait twice as long, but half as often. I would prefer the more charge stations to a larger battery. I like the shot breaks once an hour or so.
Between here and Auburn, on I-80, there are at least six locations to CCS charge from, evenly spread out, each with more than one charger. Add in the J1772 charge stations, there are a lot more. I just wish it were like that everywhere. Perhaps someday it will be, but perhaps not in our lifetimes. But it sure is improving fairly quickly.
BTW, it seems to me that the Zero SR/F is a hot selling bike, unlike any of the the Energicas. I wonder why, when the SR/F compared to any of the Energias. The SS9 charges at 25KW, yet can still use a J1772 at 3 KW. Uses a drive chain that does not snap, is a lot more comfy that the SR/F, has a reverse, etc. I wonder if the main reason is the lack of Energica dealers to the point most have never even heard of it. That includes me, until i started reading about them in this forum.
-Don- Reno, NV
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Ultimately came down to two major points. I live in a state that doesn't allow Tesla sales. Everyone here that has one had to get it from the neighboring state. That gets reflected in our charging infrastructure. There are only three level 3 DC chargers within 100 miles of here. Level 2 is significantly more prevalent, but not exactly on every street corner.
The Energica has the level two at 3KW built in, which is the same as the standard Zero SR/F.
The second big issue was dealer proximity. The closest Energica dealer is something like 800 miles away. I just couldn't rationalize having to crate and ship the bike back if anything went wrong with it - or if it needed a firmware update. I have a Zero dealer about 60 miles away. I wanted to ride them both, I had spoken briefly with the dealer in Austin about flying out and riding both bikes when they got their SR/F demo.
Try to get your local European motorcycle dealer to become an Energica dealer. But it's easier if you have one to show them. I already brought my Energica to a couple of places where they put in to be a dealer after seeing my bike. It could take a while, however. IMO, the biggest problem Energica has is most dealers as well as most riders never even heard of it. But it has a lot going for it, IMO.
In this area of CA the CCS chargers are just about everywhere. Not so good east of Reno, NV, but it's improving. Between here and Reno there are at least a half dozen CCS chargers on the 99 mile trip to my other house in Reno.
Ultimately decided that since I'm not a connoisseur, I'd almost certainly enjoy riding either bike.
Now if I lived in a more urban area with more L3 stations and a closer dealer, it would have been a much harder decision. But FWIW a reverse option and chain weren't deciding factors at all.
I ride my Zeros the most. Those bikes are light compared to my SS9. I have found the reverse on my SS9 to be very helpful many times already. And I prefer the chain to the belt. Belts can snap with no warning--sometimes can be very dangerous. Kind of long, but I'll end it by saying that when I bought the bike, I knew it was going to be a 3-5 year relationship. I bought what I felt would be the best bike over the next 3 years, expecting that the landscape is going to change so dramatically over that period with better batteries, better/more charging, and more compelling designs.
I'm definitely keeping an eye on Energica to see what they do. If the dealer network matures and they come out with something next gen that resonates as much as the esse esse 9 did with me, I'd probably make the jump.
For around town stuff, I prefer my Zeros. For the freeway, I prefer my SS9. It feels a lot more like a real motorcycle than does the Zeros when on the freeway. Around here, the range of the battery is not an issue as there are more than enough places to recharge. I like to take a break every hour anyway, I am rarely in a hurry.
BTW, I got my SS9 back today. With the three new keys and the 600 mile service done for free. I certainly cannot complain about their service.
-Don- Auburn, CA