ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: GaryArt1 on September 05, 2019, 06:39:10 AM
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So yesterday I rode my V-twin ICE bike that I haven't rode since I bought the SR/F a month ago. I realized one thing, I am a true electric convert. This is what I found:
1. My cruiser/tourer felt heavy. Not nearly as nimble as the SR/F.
2. My ICE bike felt sluggish. I used to think it was fast but now it feels slow compared with the SR/F.
3. I do not miss the clutch, the noise and the vibration. The SR/F is so much nicer to ride. It felt like a "pure" riding experience.
4. I do miss my comfortable Mustang seat on the ICE. The SR/F seat is not bad but for longer trips it doesn't compare to the Mustang.
5. I do miss not worrying about the range. I know this would get better as I get used to the range of the SR/F but I have already rode it down to 0% and was sweating it out.
6. I like riding my SR/F so much more than my ICE bike.
7. If my SR/F had the range of my ICE bike I probably almost never ride the ICE bike again.
So after this ride, I pushed my ICE bike once again to the back of the garage because I know I will be riding the SR/F for all my rides in the foreseeable future.
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The only ICE advantage is range & unfortunately it doesn't look like that's going to diminish in the near future so I'm hanging onto mine for the rare times I need it.
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Welcome to the club.
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Well GaryArt1 I'm really glad your enjoying the bike so much. I do find it interesting when someone with a long history of ICE riding can see the virtues of electric the same way my electric only experience has been for me.
I hope we will see the big range increase in our lifetimes. Luke Workman said 1000 mile range was possible years ago and I like to keep that goal in mind.
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Fun read. :)
I recently landed on a DSR myself and notice much the same as you..
I think, if the battery had double the size of todays capacity and being able to charge at 1C would remove much of that last "obstacle".
I have a lot of colleagues that spark conversations regarding my bike and i've had several conversations started in a group with "i noticed someone in the building got an electric motorcycle.. Didn't know they even existed.." So.. even seasoned ICE drivers are curious.
Helps that i work in electrical engineering.. People there tend to be more curious of technical stuff. :D
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7. If my SR/F had the range of my ICE bike I probably almost never ride the ICE bike again.
I find range is never the real issue. The real issue is the charging and the charge station locations.
Otherwise, twice the range only means twice the wait half as often. Comes out to about the same time either way.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Currently the charge tank on the SR/F allows to shorten the charging time (half the time) while the coming power tank allows to increase the riding range (by a factor of ~1.3). I wonder which is the best to go? Also, what about the addition of weight when added in the MC trunk?
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To me, the doubled range is more a question of reaching targets further away for round trips.
Or more targets in a semi distant distance.
In essence, for most trips being able to reach round trip what i want to do.
For long trips, i agree with DonTom's sentiment, but then again.. Riding from full to empty today already stretches the need to take a break anyway.
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For me, it is all about range. I can't recall a time when I saw a public charging station during my rides. Other than the GoEV L2 charging station at the rear of the local Safeway store adjacent to their loading docks and the L2 outlet at the city hall where I used to work. The station behind the Safeway never seems to be in use and the one at city hall is always occupied all day by the plug-in hybrid car owned by a building inspector due to it being free to use, as is the parking spot. So I have no use for fast charging as the infrastructure just isn't located where I ride and because population density is so low, I doubt it will ever be worthwhile to set up stations out in the boondocks.
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I'm in the range over charge speed camp as well. There are a few charging stations right near my house but on the back roads I ride for fun there aren't even any gas stations (or hardly any cars). On one hand I have plenty of battery for that 60 mile loop but in the winter or if I'm going a bit quicker it would be nice to have a highway 200 mile range so the outside factors of speed, wind, hills, and cold just wouldn't matter.
The idea of very long rides has some appeal from an idea of 1 hour is good so 5 hours must be great. My whole saddle area is ready for a break at about 60 miles though. If I had much more range I'd get a better saddle. :)
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Currently the charge tank on the SR/F allows to shorten the charging time (half the time) while the coming power tank allows to increase the riding range (by a factor of ~1.3). I wonder which is the best to go? Also, what about the addition of weight when added in the MC trunk?
Different needs for different people. But the way I would do an SR/F here would be the premium model with the power tank.
If there were many 12 KW charge stations around, I would not want the Power tank at all, and would go for the charge tank. But I don't think there are any 12 KW J1772 charge stations on the roads around here or anywhere else that I am likely to ride to.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I don't think there IS such a thing. In order to get 12 kWh charging, I think you need to hook up to two stations at once. I could be mistaken but I seem to recall discussions about this when the bike was introduced.
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I don't think there IS such a thing. In order to get 12 kWh charging, I think you need to hook up to two stations at once. I could be mistaken but I seem to recall discussions about this when the bike was introduced.
I think in Europe the 12 KW J1772 charge stations are common.
Can anybody here in Europe explain their J1772 charge stations?
I think most here in the USA max out at 7 KW or less.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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@JaimeC: the discussion was over the fact that to realize 12 kW charging, you'd need 4 chargers. The Mennekes connector would give you 3x16A (at 230V) easy, so what do you do with the 4'th?.. In that discussion it was established it would be placed on the first phase, so you'd get 32A+16A+16A which results in 12 kWh.
It's not J1772 in Europe btw.. we just call it Mennekes outlet or Type2.
J1772 is referenced as Type1.
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I don't think there IS such a thing.
There is very close to it right here at this house. My Tesla Wall Connector is 240 VAC @ 48 amps which is 11,520 watts. However, my Tesla-Tap is rated at 40 amps, so that drops me down to 9,600 watts max. Still more than we can find out on the road.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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For me, it is all about range. I can't recall a time when I saw a public charging station during my rides.
In your area, they are everywhere, when you get closer to the bay. Have you checked Plugshare? (https://www.plugshare.com/)
But unless you have a J1772 connector and and some external chargers (or all day to wait) they will do you very little good.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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For me, it is all about range. I can't recall a time when I saw a public charging station during my rides.
In your area, they are everywhere, when you get closer to the bay. Have you checked Plugshare? (https://www.plugshare.com/)
But unless you have a J1772 connector and and some external chargers (or all day to wait) they will do you very little good.
-Don- Auburn, CA
They may be everywhere near commercial and residential areas but I don't ride there unless I am doing a chore. Otherwise I ride in the Santa Cruz Mountains, where I go hiking at County and State parks and in open space districts. The State parks, like Big Basin, do not even have public 120 volt outlets, much less a dedicated EV charging station. The OP areas just have gravel parking lots and pit toilets and some County parks do have L1 outlets in their group picnic shelters, but the rangers get upset if they catch you using them unless you are renting the facility.
I can't even charge at Alice's Restaurant as they had an issue with a group of Zero motorcycles charging up at their gas station's 240 volt outlet a few years ago, which blew up their old 100 amp service and put the station out of business for the day. Not happy campers and now they will not let anyone charge up their EV motorcycle at their restaurant like I used to do in 2012.
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The lack of range and inconsistent performance are sending me back to ICE bikes already.
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They may be everywhere near commercial and residential areas but I don't ride there unless I am doing a chore. Otherwise I ride in the Santa Cruz Mountains, where I go hiking at County and State parks and in open space districts. The State parks, like Big Basin, do not even have public 120 volt outlets, much less a dedicated EV charging station. The OP areas just have gravel parking lots and pit toilets and some County parks do have L1 outlets in their group picnic shelters, but the rangers get upset if they catch you using them unless you are renting the facility.
I can't even charge at Alice's Restaurant as they had an issue with a group of Zero motorcycles charging up at their gas station's 240 volt outlet a few years ago, which blew up their old 100 amp service and put the station out of business for the day. Not happy campers and now they will not let anyone charge up their EV motorcycle at their restaurant like I used to do in 2012.
That's a bummer. Sounds more like ICE vehicle territory for those type of places out in the boonies.
FWIW, I have hiked all over that area myself. Even in San Padro Park there in Pacifia. Also Butano, Hendry Cowell and even the Forest of Nisene Marks (Aptos) several times. Also, Big Basin, but it has been many years since I have been in BB.
I assume you have been to Butano a few times.
I will plan a backpacking trip later this month to the Island Lake area. (https://sierrafish.com/lakes/island-lake-nc/island-lake-nc.php) But first, I need to get my Energica back from Redwood City. There is only satellite communications where I am going or else I would go now. I just will not know when to be back here or else I would already be out in the boonies for about a week or so.
The issue with my SS9 is when the bike was new, there was only one key. The master key and spare is lost. The fix is to change the immobilizer and give me a new set of three keys. They picked up the bike and will bring it back. Not only that, they will do my 600 mile service. All of this at no cost to me. But I did tell them there is no hurry as I do have nine other bikes to ride.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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The lack of range and consistent performance are sending me back to ICE bikes already.
Have both. Electric motorcycles are only good for around 90% of our rides. Most people drive less than 40 miles per day and even my Zero 6.5 can do better than that.
But for now, we also need ICE. But range is not the issue, the big issue is the charge station locations. But that is quickly improving.
I have put more miles on my two Zeros in the last two years than I have on my other seven ICE bikes combined. I enjoy the electrics the most of all, but they are not always the best choice.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Have both. Electric motorcycles are only good for around 90% of our rides. Most people drive less than 40 miles per day and even my Zero 6.5 can do better than that.
But for now, we also need ICE. But range is not the issue... I enjoy the electrics the most of all, but they are not always the best choice.
Range most definitely is the issue. I'm tired of having to cut rides short and ride the way the bike wants me to versus the way I want to. That's the sneaky downside of Zero's, they force you to ride to the limitations of the bike instead of riding the way you want to. I went out on the FX and rode the way I wanted to last weekend and it was in thermal protection mode in about 3 miles into the trip and it ran out of power at 32 miles. Luckily, I coasted back into the driveway, got on my ICE bike and went and rode the way I wanted to the rest of the day.
I guess I'm just over the hype of these bikes and don't want to keep a bike around that forces me to ride to its limitations, especially as expensive as they are. One day I hope they'll get it all worked out where you can ride Zero's like an ICE bike without the limitations. Until then, back to ICE for me.
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Here's a fun fact I learned the other day.
Despite the massive hp and torque differences between a Zero FX (46hp/78t/289lbs) and a Honda CRF250L (25hp/17t/317lbs), the CRF250L will win a 5 mile race down a straight road at wide open throttle.
How is that possible? The weak CRF250L will hold 75-80 mph for miles and miles without any issue. Once you push the FX over 70 mph, the motor starts heating up. Once it gets too hot, which happens in about 2 minutes at WOT, it will slow you down to 45 mph or so. Even if you are holding it WOT, it chooses the speed it will go until it cools off, then it will slowly allow you to creep back up to 70 mph or so where it holds that speed. Meanwhile the cheap CRF250L is long gone at near 80 mph the whole time.
Do that for 30 miles and the FX is out of power and needs a 10 hour recharge before it can run again, where the CRF250L has another 70+ miles in it before it needs to stop for a 5 minute refill at the gas station.
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Have both. Electric motorcycles are only good for around 90% of our rides. Most people drive less than 40 miles per day and even my Zero 6.5 can do better than that.
But for now, we also need ICE. But range is not the issue... I enjoy the electrics the most of all, but they are not always the best choice.
Range most definitely is the issue. I'm tired of having to cut rides short and ride the way the bike wants me to versus the way I want to. That's the sneaky downside of Zero's, they force you to ride to the limitations of the bike instead of riding the way you want to. I went out on the FX and rode the way I wanted to last weekend and it was in thermal protection mode in about 3 miles into the trip and it ran out of power at 32 miles. Luckily, I coasted back into the driveway, got on my ICE bike and went and rode the way I wanted to the rest of the day.
I guess I'm just over the hype of these bikes and don't want to keep a bike around that forces me to ride to its limitations, especially as expensive as they are. One day I hope they'll get it all worked out where you can ride Zero's like an ICE bike without the limitations. Until then, back to ICE for me.
I guess I am the odd ball, the SR/F (and previous DSR) fit me perfect. No need to adjust my riding at all. I had a Honda Magna (750) for years, and rarely went more than 100 miles at a pop (commute, short weekend trips). Same pattern on the SR/F, 50 miles to work, charge (level 2 at work, tops the bike off in a little over an hour), 50 miles home (level 2 in the garage, same deal, little over an hour and back to 90% (my software limit)) and ready to go again. Most weekends I can go the weekend on one charge (couple of trips to the store, nice ride along coastal 1A in New Hampshire). But, I realize I am a light weight, but based on the statistics, there are a bunch of us! Oh, and I have yet to overheat the SR/F (at sustained highway speeds in 90 degree heat).
Steve
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Here's a fun fact I learned the other day.
Despite the massive hp and torque differences between a Zero FX (46hp/78t/289lbs) and a Honda CRF250L (25hp/17t/317lbs), the CRF250L will win a 5 mile race down a straight road at wide open throttle.
How is that possible? The weak CRF250L will hold 75-80 mph for miles and miles without any issue. Once you push the FX over 70 mph, the motor starts heating up. Once it gets too hot, which happens in about 2 minutes at WOT, it will slow you down to 45 mph or so. Even if you are holding it WOT, it chooses the speed it will go until it cools off, then it will slowly allow you to creep back up to 70 mph or so where it holds that speed. Meanwhile the cheap CRF250L is long gone at near 80 mph the whole time.
Do that for 30 miles and the FX is out of power and needs a 10 hour recharge before it can run again, where the CRF250L has another 70+ miles in it before it needs to stop for a 5 minute refill at the gas station.
I guess that is one of the benefits of the SRF. I have not had an overheating issue yet and have driven it pretty hard while it was 90+. Only time I had any significant power reduction is when I pushed the range and I arrived at home riding the last couple miles at 0% SOC. TBH, I never saw the FX as a bike you would be doing 70+ mph on a highway. It always seemed to me like a off-road bike that you can also tool around on the streets with. I guess all bikes have their limitations. I wouldn’t expect my SRF to perform nearly as well off road as the FX. I probably would not even consider taking it off-road other than a short ride on fire road.
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Yeah, I got an FX and put knobbies on it for cruising Tassajara, Hollister Hills and the forestry roads up in the Sierras; which means two things: (a) range is a key factor bc there's no mid-trail charging options, and (b) I'll very likely never encounter thermal issues. I'll update on whether the 7.2 battery gets me far enough for daily exploration rides. So far, bike is great.
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This tells me Jarrett rides like an asshole, as having driven the DSR for 3 weeks now, i've never seen thermal throttling, never had a range issue and never felt the bike to be underpowered..
Starting to be glad i don't drive the same streets as him.. WOT driving assholes tend to provoke me to report them..
Also.. the streets i usually ride is filled with cars driving like assholes so it's not like i'm imitating Driving Miss Daisy either..
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Yes, if all you do is run to the grocery store/work (as long as its not too far away) and back at an easy pace, Zero's are fantastic bikes.
But at this point, there's always a considerably less expensive ICE bike that can do it with more performance, of course.
Hopefully with advances in technology, that will change in time. Would be neat if one day Zero's were the most practical and ICE bikes were a novelty item.
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MrBic, I understand why you feel the need to lash out, the truth hurts sometimes.
Hopefully you can get over your butthurt soon.
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It's more a question of "WTH are you doing with EV based MC's if you're only going to complain about them?"
You may have noticed that apart from you and another person of negativity, the rest of us seem to be generally satisfied with the product.
And by generally i mean there are little things that for sure could be better, but they don't hold us back from spending money on this and actually get enjoyment from it all..
Guess i just get fed up with some trolls always spewing negativity around them..
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It's more a question of "WTH are you doing with EV based MC's if you're only going to complain about them?"
You may have noticed that apart from you and another person of negativity, the rest of us seem to be generally satisfied with the product.
Guess i just get fed up with some trolls always spewing negativity around them..
What you call trolling and negativity, I call a needed infusion of reality. If this forum was called "The Zero Positivity Only" forum, I wouldn't post here, but its not, its an open discussion forum for all opinions related to Zero motorcycles. And as an owner of two of them, I have some opinions about them. Based on more than 3 weeks of ownership, by the way.
It's fun to get together with other people that have made the same decision you've made and pat each other on the back for being in agreement, but that can also lead to some misconceptions being thrown out. The bottom line is Zero's only really work for a specific subset of the motorcycle community.
While the Zero models fair well with the easy-riding commuter crowd, there are simply some riders that ask for more performance out of a motorcycle than most of the Zero's can deliver. Despite the marketing on their website, the pre-SRF models aren't really high performance bikes. A $3000 used SV650 could out perform the lot of them and that's considered a starter bike in many circles. That's a tough pill to swallow when looking at a $20k bike that's marketed as a high performance machine, but this is info that potential buyers need to know.
For example, there is a new FX owner on the FB group asked why his FX goes into thermal protection mode when he runs it wide open throttle. 10+ people came along and said stuff like, "mine doesn't do that," "you're doing something wrong," "there's something wrong with your bike," etc. But the reality is, if you hold a FX wide open for about 2 minutes, it cuts performance WAY back to save itself. For someone coming from ICE bikes, it feels like something is wrong with the bike. No ICE bike would shut itself down after 2 minutes of wide open throttle. But none of that is out there on the Zero website. They down play those kinds of facts about the bikes. And it is info that needs to be out there.
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I think the difference here (speaking for myself ONLY) is that I've outgrown the need for TOYS. I didn't buy the Zero to have fun (although it is), I bought the Zero to fill a practical NEED: Commuting to and from work for as cheaply as possible. Work is 34 miles round trip (all highway). Throw in a ride to somewhere to eat lunch (I'm in the middle of an industrial complex, other than our cafeteria there is NO place within walking distance) and I can easily log anywhere from 34 to 50 miles a day (not including running errands after work). The Zero is absolutely PERFECT in this role.
I do use it occasionally for pleasure; short local charity rides, a run up to the shore (I live on an island) to clear my head, etc. Nothing can beat the sounds of birds and crickets chirping, the wind in the trees and kids playing; sounds you simply don't hear on an ICE bike (even one with legal mufflers installed).
For longer rides, I do have my XMAX. It may only be 300cc but you know what? It gets me to work just as fast as if I were to take a modern 200hp sportbike. In other words, I've come to the realization I don't NEED all that horsepower and torque to have fun and be happy. The XMAX tools along on the highway at 70-75 mph and still gives me over 200 miles out of it's 3.3 gallon tank. I've packed up all of my camping gear and clothing under the seat and in the top box, all safely locked away and protected from the weather and prying eyes; no half-ton land yacht required.
I do still have my K1200LT. I keep it in hopes that one day my wife will be healthy enough to climb back on and tour with me. I consider that bike "hers" even though I own and ride it. It really was for her pleasure and I'm pretty sure almost half of the 216,000 miles on it were with her on the back. But when I ride by myself, I don't need anything more than the XMAX or the Zero.
Also, I'm at the age where I seldom ride just for the sake of riding. I need to have a destination in mind. I'm at the age where I'm trying to collect memories; not things. I can use Google to see how far away my target destination is, and how long it'll take to get there and then choose with bike I'll use (using the right tool for the job). This year (since January 1st) I've already logged over 11,000 miles on two wheels. The majority of that has been on the Zero. The XMAX trails behind it by only a few hundred miles. I ride it less often, but I ride it further when I do. Finally, I just clicked over 1,000 miles this year on the K1200LT. I haven't been riding it much but I do take it out on occasion to blow off the dust and make sure it still runs.
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Yep, as mentioned, for the easy-going commuter/scooter crowd, Zero's make some sense. That's kind of how I see them now, as an alternative to a scooter.
Although I suspect it would be a LONG time before you see ROI on one if you bought it new compared to cheaper ICE commuter options.
For people that like to do more than putt along short distances back and forth to work, they can get bothersome quickly.
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Yep, as mentioned, for the easy-going commuter/scooter crowd, Zero's make some sense. That's kind of how I see them now, as an alternative to a scooter.
Although I suspect it would be a LONG time before you see ROI on one if you bought it new compared to cheaper ICE commuter options.
For people that like to do more than putt along short distances back and forth to work, they can get bothersome quickly.
So shut up and buy something less "bothersome" for yourself. Nobody's here trying to sell you a bill of goods. We ain't a bunch of pollyannas, either. Sure, we're enthusiastic about our vehicles -- how else would you have us be? You seem to resent us for it.
If you think there should be more "reality" here, here's my reality:
1) It is, by far, the cheapest way for a lot of people to get to work. My commute is much shorter now, but before I re-lo'ed, it was about 50 miles round trip. That's too far for a realistic bicycle or sneaker commute, and public transportation is much more time-consuming and still more expensive. Argue all you want about ROI, it is a daily money-saver.
2) It's fun. You can demean, dismiss and use derogatory terms like "putt along" all you want, but that doesn't change anything. My SR is the most fun bike I've ever had, period.
3) We're early adopters, still, which is why it's still expensive and you can still make an ROI argument. But for the next generation, that argument won't be possible -- because of early adopters like us. Someone's got to push this planet-saving technology forward, and I, for one, made a conscious decision to do that. I see no reason to change that opinion after 48,000 miles.
4) It satisfies a good 80% of my transportation needs. Before my re-lo, it was well above 90%. My hybrid RAV4 satisfies virtually all the others -- when I moved, I did rent a truck for a few hours. I intend to continue doing exactly the same thing. I love my vehicles, I'm very happy with the way they perform and fill my transportation needs, and I think they do it for a very reasonable price, including purchase price.
Are you listening to yourself? All your arguments boil down to downers, basically "I don't like them because I don't like them". That's what haters do. They hate because they hate, and try to find rationales for their hatred. You could say I'm doing the same thing, I suppose....but who's winning that argument? My "delusion" fills me with happiness with my vehicles, you're full of hatred at them.
Personally, your opinion matters very little to me.
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Jarrett you gave Zero about $30,000 and for that I thank you.
I wish you had posted a few other facts about yourself when you first came here and I could have saved you a lot of money.
Your first posts were about the road crash video and you seemed so scared the thing would be too powerful and get out from under you so people told you just go easy until you were used to it.
If you would have said how big a person you are I would have told you the FX isn't for you.
If you would have said your biggest motivation in life was impressing or racing or showing off for a bunch of guys you hang out with I would have told you they can't go as fast as a lot of ICE bikes but the Zero web page tells you that.
You said you loved both bikes and you said a few times how much fun the FX is but when someone beat you in a race like a couple of high school kids you got embarrassed. Your going to take a few thousand dollar hit by selling the bike . Knowing how you abused that FX motor and battery by riding it like your a motorcross racer (which your not) I would give a whole lot less than $8k
I'll say this for ya you got money to burn.
I guess Texas don't mind street racing too much or there just aren't enough cops to stop it but don't start crying when they take your license or put you in the back of the car. If you want to race go to a track.
I wish you had enjoyed them more but to each his own.
Good luck.
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Interesting side note. A year or so ago, someone (finally) took a Tesla Model S to the Nurburgring to see how it would do. It thermally limited itself to avoid any damage, and you should have seen the ICE fanboiz poking fun at a vehicle that "couldn't even finish a lap on the 'ring!!!". Never mind that this is a strictly street vehicle, a luxury vehicle rather than a sports car, and most street vehicles wouldn't fare very well on the 'ring either. But it was true, the Tesla did fail to complete a lap at racing speed without limiting itself.
Almost exactly a week later, a prototype of the new Acura NSX was testing at the 'ring. Despite being a high-end sports car designed for this sort of abuse, it caught fire and burned itself to the ground. Literally destroyed itself. Funny, the ICE fanboiz were quiet as church mice when that happened.
I know which behavior I'd want to see in a street car!
Look, if you wanted a hot rod for the street, you bought the wrong bike...or you bought a bike for the wrong reason. Don't blame the bike for your stupidity.
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Bingo. Doesn't matter if you have a Zero or a Ducati Panigale V4R... you won't get to work or the supermarket any faster. :D
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Your first posts were about the road crash video and you seemed so scared the thing would be too powerful and get out from under you so people told you just go easy until you were used to it.
Yeah, based on the irrational fears posted here and other places, there was a concern about traction control initially. But that's mainly due to the overblown torque specs and flat out incorrect 0-60 numbers posted about the bikes. Once you ride one, you quickly figure out there's no issue as there's not really that much power to cause an issue.
If you would have said how big a person you are I would have told you the FX isn't for you.
Not even sure how to answer that one.
If you would have said your biggest motivation in life was impressing or racing or showing off for a bunch of guys you hang out with I would have told you they can't go as fast as a lot of ICE bikes but the Zero web page tells you that.
Too much error here to unpack it all.
when someone beat you in a race like a couple of high school kids you got embarrassed.
What?
Knowing how you abused that FX motor and battery by riding it like your a motorcross racer (which your not)
lol, again what?
I didn't realize Zero owners were such a sensitive lot. It's ok to separate yourselves from the bikes and not take offense when someone provides actual feedback on them.
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So shut up.
Don't blame the bike for your stupidity.
My "delusion" fills me with happiness with my vehicles, you're full of hatred at them.
Personally, your opinion matters very little to me.
Are you ok? You sound as if you're having a bad day or something.
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I feel fantastic. I love my vehicles, love my new place (just had a house-warming party Saturday, it went great!), love my job, love my girlfriend. Never have suffered fools very well, though.
I hope you're doing well, too.
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Ill ride WOT after every stoplight, leaving behind every car every time, and every ICE bike who is still busy putting it in gear and spinning their clutch, until I get to 35-45MPH, which is 5-10MPH above the speed limit, where nobody is bothered or cares because it looks and sounds innocent, until I get to the next light and split lanes to the front, where nobody cares because I'm not pumping exhaust into their window, until I take off again, and they are still stopped looking down at their cell phone in my rearview, because they thought my take-off would notify them of the green, and now they are 15 seconds behind getting honkerd at... hilarious, and I'd pay a 50% premium for that alone!
I'll take a few exits on the freeway, where it does fine indefinitely at 65 MPH, but I realize the FX is not for the freeway -- although it would not wear out from continuous use on the freeway, unlike any thumper <= 500cc. The only limiting I've experienced is 60 MPH if the battery is getting below 30%, and once 30 MPH when I pushed it below 5%. I actually look forward to weaving down the expressway during rush hour -- what a blast with the silent, narrow ninja machine and California lane splitting.
I maintain an ICE dirt bike for long dual sport rides, and another 1200c adventurer tourer for such purposes. I can't stand to ride those things, unless the nature of the trip forces me to, which fortunately is less than 10% of the time. That's how I know I've been converted.
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Hey guys. Let's take a minute and breathe here. I didn't start this thread to have a war between those who like EVs and those who don't. We have enough concern with those that hate motorcycles and the people who ride them. I posted my opinion and it is just that. I thought I post it because it is from a person brand new to Electric Bikes but with a long history of ICE bikes. Yes, I think EVs are cool, fun to ride and with some more advancements the bikes of the future but I do not feel they are the only valid way to enjoy a bike. Motorcycling like many other things is a passion. With any passion, you will have strong feelings, I understand that. But just because you feel a certain way doesn't invalidate the way another person feels. Your words on here shouldn't either. EVs are not for everyone. I understand that. Hey many of your may look at my 650lb cruiser that has a handlebar with grips that point to the ground and enough chrome that it takes a afternoon to polish and think, I would never ride that. That is the point. There are enough different styles of bikes out there to please just about anyone.
Jarrett, I can see that maybe a EV is not ideal for you. It's limitations may be more significant to the way you use your bike. I can totally understand that. But you have to understand you on on a forum that has people who generally feel very passionate about their EVs. If you only post negative opinions, it may bring out some of our more passionate opinions. You have the total right to your opinion also being you owned one. You must just know your audience. Being from NYC, I may think country music is an insult to my intelligence. That is my opinion and only that. It doesn't demean the music or the people who like it whatsoever. But I would probably think twice about going on a country music forum and giving my opinion. I am not saying everything on here has to be positive. If people have legit problems or concerns, I welcome hearing it. But if someone has had a negative experience with EVs and is just looking to bash them, this is probably not the best place for it.
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I bought a 13.0 kWh SR for the purpose of sport riding an 80 mile loop of hairpins and trying out direct drive electric. Direct drive electric simplifies riding to line selection and, especially after Ride-On tire sealant, is a smooth ride. I'll be keeping the SR for this loop because the 2020 20 kWh Energica I want is 200 lbs heavier.
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Sorry Gary didn't want this to go this way but Jarrett has been building this tone of "these bikes are so stupid so I got a gas bike and you all should too" for a little while now. It needs to be addressed. For the record most of the guys on here have ICE bikes and I have no problem with that, get what works for you and your needs.
Jarrett I tried to help you out when you first wanted to get into electric and I feel like why did I waste my time if every way you want to ride is clearly not what the bikes are made for. Like buying a hammer and bitching because it won't remove screws.
When you had your DSR (that you test rode) you were upset it couldn't keep up with your friends bikes. You posted a picture of all your friends Harleys and your DSR. You could kill them off the line but they would catch up to you and pass you at longer distances.
So you ran off and traded the DSR for a Triumph Speed Triple to beat them. Not a Honda Rebel or a KLR 650 but a Speed Triple. Those two bikes (ST and DSR) aren't even in the same ball park. If a Speed Triple was what you wanted in the first place why bother with a always slower dual sport bike.
As for the FX it's a 289 pound bike you said your 270 pounds. I don't care how big you are as a person, but you can't tow a 25 foot sailboat with a Toyota Yaris. Big guys need bike bikes. You always posted that you would ride the battery down to 0% SOC often. Guess what, it aint a gas tank, it isn't good for the battery to do that. But you wouldn't listen. You just kept doing it.
Heat isn't good for magnets but your W O T all the time, or at least post like you are. Guess what, that aint good for any vehicle.
The bottom line is if you would have said you wanted to race and go full speed as your main desire I could have told you up front that electric isn't for you yet and saved you money and hassle. You didn't bring that up as what you wanted until after you had bought both bikes.
If they didn't work for you it's on you. Get the right tool for the job you want to do.
Don't come tell us how a gas bike wins a race and fills up faster and is cheaper to buy. We all know that but don't care.
Electric bikes ride better, easier, and quicker than ICE bikes and put on much cheaper miles.
They will best them at every thing in the future but have limits now.
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I would add that the majority of us in this forum are quite satisfied with our penis size and have no need to buy two-wheeled compensation...
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More childish personal attacks, got it. I guess its the internet after all with safety and anonymity behind the keyboard. Face to face, those with insults would be quiet as church mice I'm certain, as such people are.
new2elec, several of your statements about me are incorrect. I'm not sure if you are confusing me with another poster or not. It doesn't really matter to me at this point though.
It always baffles me how people read/hear things that aren't there. I never said everyone should get a gas bike. I never said Zero's are stupid. I personally like them a lot. I like the way the company is pushing the envelope and making these bikes a reality. The FX is a fantastic bike, but unfortunately it has some serious limitations, which I found the hard way and documented in various posts on the forum. I only hope prospective buyers will find those posts and see that information to make a more informed decision. I'm sure I'll miss the FX, but I can't pretend I'm happy with the limitations that these bikes have anymore.
As I've stated a number of times, my hope is one day they will push the technology forward to the point these limitations are solved and I can fully enjoy one of their bikes. Until then, I have to say goodbye to the brand.
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@Gary I'm sorry, but this was a long time coming as New2Elec wrote. It's my fault for the confrontation happening in this thread but i'm tired of lusers pawning their negativity to everyone around them just because they are dissatisfied.
Being a person with a very good memory i can also add that N2E is also VERY correct in his statements. It's all visible in this forum in various threads. But.. trolls love the attention and will always claim lies to get their attention. Since mods don't care to do much, let's just all ignore the evident follow that will come after this post about how wrong we all are.. at some point the focus will be shifted if attention is not reached.
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In a weird way, this is the argument between the Tesla Performance and the Porsche Taycan.
One is a street car, the other has the heart of a racer. The vast majority of users will never know the difference. And building something that can handle wide open throttle, heavy maximum load, hot tight race conditions... Well, that's always been a thing:
Twenty years ago the vast majority of ICE vehicles did not have the reliability to do race days. They'd overheat and die. We're just at an inflection point where durable has spread out to more cars and bikes than ever before, just as EVs are surpassing on the edge of performance or cost per mile. But it's still or right now. It might always be 'or', like it was for ICE for the last century.
-Crissa
PS: Just because something has a fast 0-60 (which will vary wildly by the load of course) doesn't mean it's a racer. The fastest 0-60 in a stock street car for a long time was a Nova. That was not something for the race course! Thing squealed around every corner like you're driving crazy and spun at the drop of a dime with the least amount of braking unevenness. And the engine they put in to do that would crack if driven too hot because it was over-bored.
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We are done here, people. No more names, no more mention of genitals, etc. Topic locked. I will not hesitate to lock other topics and ban people from the forum.