ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: vinceherman on August 06, 2019, 12:33:05 AM
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I am a number cruncher. Each ICE vehicle I own has its spreadsheet of fill-ups with fuel purchased and miles driven.
I can tell you average fuel economy for my F350 loaded and empty.
I have numbers for every fill-up during my 120,000 miles of Goldwing riding.
So of course I am studying the data I can gather from my Premium SR/F
If you make a base assumption that the range is 100 miles (relatively accurate over my first 3000 miles).
You add 10 miles per hour of charging for each kW of charge rate.
Plugging in to the wall outlet (1.1kW) adds about 11 miles of range per hour.
Plugging in to a Blink station (4.3kW) adds about 41 miles of range per hour.
Plugging in to a 30A or 50A outlet (5.4kW) adds about 55 miles of range per hour.
I know that this rule of thumb is a large simplification that ignores many relevant factors (start/end %s, temp, and more).
But as a rule of thumb, glance at your display to find the kW. Multiply by 10. That is how many miles of range you add per hour.
Edited to correct the error Morgan found in my classifications.
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Good post.
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I'll add that it's worth including a kind of scale factor for what you expect your efficiency will be on your next leg of travel.
If you aim into a headwind at highway speeds, or are about to ride in the rain or cold, you'll get probably 80 miles of range, so scale the charging-mph numbers by 80%. Scale down further a bit if these factors all apply at once. I mean it, I've gotten a 50% range figure at 40F in a downpour with a headwind.
If you're in a bind and only one short trip leg from home or a hotel where you can finish charging, if you can get there at 45mph you'll probably get 120 miles of range, so scale the charging-mph numbers by 120%. If 25mph or so is okay, consider it 150% or more. This matters because it takes less time to do this than to keep charging so you can ride faster - you'll arrive sooner if you charge a bit less and ride slower.
Just to put this into context, I learned to do this on the 2013 DS which only offered 11 bars of charge indication, so I had to get an idea of how much range each bar represented, but quickly learned that varied by 2x or more depending on the factors above.
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I have had many highway rides where the range exceeded my 1 mile per % assumption. Usually where there was congestion from the construction so 45mph was a large part of the commute.
My worst ride economy-wise was a trip down to see my brother. A long lonely country road over some rolling hills. At the top of each hill I would confirm no traffic and no side streets and apply full throttle. Then brake down to normal speeds as I climbed up out of the tiny valley where I could not see far enough ahead. Full throttle, brake. Full throttle, brake. Never going hellaciously fast, but burning up those kWh.
Of course, if I am on the parkways where there is a 30mph limit, I know I am going to get much better economy. But I have not been able to go far enough in the local metroparks to use a full charge.
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How did you come to the conclusion that 30A is equivalent to 4.3kW and that, similarly, 50A is 5.4kW?
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Forgive my dumb question: when you "plug into" 30 or 50A source, is that a charge station or just a dumb outlet outlet? If just an outlet, what sort of interface- just a dumb plug or something more like Clipper Creek?
I'm asking because my SR/F is coming soon and I'm still confused if I need a clipper creek or can just plug into a Nema 14-50 or simlar.
Thanks
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Forgive my dumb question: when you "plug into" 30 or 50A source, is that a charge station or just a dumb outlet outlet? If just an outlet, what sort of interface- just a dumb plug or something more like Clipper Creek?
I'm asking because my SR/F is coming soon and I'm still confused if I need a clipper creek or can just plug into a Nema 14-50 or simlar.
Thanks
I don't own a SR/F, but I noticed when I test rode one that it comes with a charging kit that has a J-plug output. You can charge from either or above or even 120 VAC, IIRC.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I Purchased a 40 amp just Jesla charger with adapters for the 10-30 in the 14-50 outlets.
This is a Tesla charger with a J1772 end put on.
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How did you come to the conclusion that 30A is equivalent to 4.3kW and that, similarly, 50A is 5.4kW?
The proper response to your question is that I was mistaken.
In my charge data, there are 3 groupings of kW. 1.1, 4.3 and 5.4. The numbers might be a tenth higher or lower but those definitions of the groupings work. My error is that I associated the 4.3kW with my 30A dryer circuit. The correct data is that I got 5.5kW from my 30A dryer outlet and I got 4.3kW when using a Blink station at Whole Foods.
The conclusions (my rule of thumb) are still valid. But the label I put on the groupings is not accurate. Thanks for the question. I will go modify the original post.
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Forgive my dumb question: when you "plug into" 30 or 50A source, is that a charge station or just a dumb outlet outlet? If just an outlet, what sort of interface- just a dumb plug or something more like Clipper Creek?
I'm asking because my SR/F is coming soon and I'm still confused if I need a clipper creek or can just plug into a Nema 14-50 or simlar.
Thanks
Premium or standard? I ask because the standard is limited to 3kW charge rate. My premium has a cap of 6kW. I can push 5.5kW using a Jesla charger I bought.
But with the stock charger and adapters, it is easy to get 3.3kW. Here is the link th Fred cook’s post on the subject. https://www.facebook.com/groups/zmcowners/permalink/2292794987456363/
My charger and adapters ran $600ish. Fred probably paid $60 or so for his adapter.
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A 14-50 circuit is capable of outputting 12kW. Have you seen anything higher than 5.4kW?
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I’m getting the premium.
Still confused whether I need a box like Jesla or clipper creek or can just plug it straight into a 220 v 30A outlet.
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I’m getting the premium.
Still confused whether I need a box like Jesla or clipper creek or can just plug it straight into a 220 v 30A outlet.
Are you in the US? My SR/F came with the 110V TurboCard, plus an adapter plug for 220V outlets.
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I’m getting the premium.
Still confused whether I need a box like Jesla or clipper creek or can just plug it straight into a 220 v 30A outlet.
The bike should come with everything you need to charge from a J-plug as well as a 240 VAC or 120 VAC outlet.
Some more adapters may still be handy, such as the one for a clothes dryer and a Tesla-Tap depending on your needs.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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A 14-50 circuit is capable of outputting 12kW. Have you seen anything higher than 5.4kW?
I saw 5.5kW when on my 10-30 dryer outlet. The 1 time I rode to a campground to try the 14-50 it read 5.4kW.
I think it was Terry who suggested this represents the 6kW max after losses from conditioning.
As I recall, there was some uncertainty in the statement and that someone would eventually hook up a meter at the right places to be able to tell.
But it is likely the max charge rate I am going to get. It gives me a rate to use when calculating my charging on the road if/when I go on a longer ride.
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A 14-50 circuit is capable of outputting 12kW. Have you seen anything higher than 5.4kW?
The rating on the chargers built into our bikes is the charging limit we face, 3kW for Standard or 6kW for premium. The charger on the bike tells the ESVE (the cord that came with the bike, the one mounted in your garage, or the commercial charger you stop at) how much current it can take. From that point the amperage is limited by the hardware plugged into the bike. Whatever has the lowest rating will limit how fast we can charge.
I got an adapter so I can use the cord that came with the bike on a 50A RV outlet. My bike has a 6kW charger but will only charge at less than 4kW using this setup because the cord that came with the bike is only rated for 16A. It's the weakest link. Zero is coming out with a Charge Tank for the SR/f but it's not clear that it will do us any good for most applications. Most public J stations only can put out about 6kW.
I've plugged into a variety of different things and never seen a charging rate on the dash or app above 5.8kW
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A 14-50 circuit is capable of outputting 12kW. Have you seen anything higher than 5.4kW?
Note 12kW on a 50A 240Vac branch would OCPD okay not to exceed 3 hours. Ref NEC 210.20(A)
Referring to NEMA 14-50 as 12kW sustained sources is how RV parks (for whatever reason faulty or undersized wiring and oft abused and worn out OCPD's) catch fire and ill-will gets rooted versus EV travelers. Even 40A load can (more frequently than you'd like to think) be too much for these situations. Staying at or under 32A load on a NEMA 14-50 outlet branch circuit is recommended in practice in-my-opinion.
*edit* Additionally I want to mention from experience how common J1772 EVSE installs (North America) are also only really reliable up to 32A load even the ones that are rated for 40A continuous are not always reliable to 40A sustained; The Tesla High Power Wall Connector HPWC installs are typically specified to 60A or 80A continuous (80A and 100A rated wiring, OCPD, etc) for use with 32A/40A/32A+16A and 40A+40A charging configurations. There does exist a TeslaTap but what I've seen is rated again only to 32A or 40A not any higher.
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At this point in time no one here is charging their Zero at 12kW for 3 hours.