ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: vinceherman on July 23, 2019, 05:46:00 AM
-
I ran a range/economy experiment today.
Rather than ride the interstate home I took a few side streets to the parks.
My one way commute was 51 miles of 30-45mph roads with a fair bit of stop signs/lights. I consumed 36% of my battery capacity.
Oh, and the ride was much more peasant, if considerably longer duration.
And a side question - is there a way to get the tripometer to show tenths of miles? I laid out my route as 3.7 miles to this road, then 2.4 to that road. It would be easier to navigate with the tenths. I am used to having them on other vehicles.
-
I love all these posts where people try to pass off negative aspects of our bikes (long charging, low range at speed) as positives. "Oh wow I get to enjoy the flowers!" "Oh wow I get to drive thru a cool part of town!"
Yeah whatever, you would already be doing it if it was so great. And given a choice, in the long run most people will pick the shortest route home.
-
I did something similar this weekend taking the backroads to Denver. Went up the backroads to the city and just came back at 74 in Eco on I25. The backroads route was much more enjoyable. Less consumed too. I did some charging halfway up when we stopped at a plaza, but Denver to Colorado Springs on the interstate home, straight 73-74 in Eco and I had 6%SoC and 6 miles of range left on the SR/F. Glad I could do some testing of my own this weekend with our dealership let me use the bike.
-
I love all these posts where people try to pass off negative aspects of our bikes (long charging, low range at speed) as positives. "Oh wow I get to enjoy the flowers!" "Oh wow I get to drive thru a cool part of town!"
Yeah whatever, you would already be doing it if it was so great. And given a choice, in the long run most people will pick the shortest route home.
So true! Motorcycles are unpleasant to be on. The less time between destinations, the better, and the freeway is the key. Taking a slow route home wastes valuable TV time!
And all these people who ride a bicycle when they could be driving their car.. what are those people thinking, pretending that uncomfortable dangerous sweaty activity is "fun" and dodging the reality that it takes 5x as long and food costs more than fuel? And on the weekend they leave their house and ride in a big circle back to their house, when they could have just stayed in their house in the first place!
-
I love all these posts where people try to pass off negative aspects of our bikes (long charging, low range at speed) as positives. "Oh wow I get to enjoy the flowers!" "Oh wow I get to drive thru a cool part of town!"
Yeah whatever, you would already be doing it if it was so great. And given a choice, in the long run most people will pick the shortest route home.
Yeah but sometimes the best things in life are found when something challenges us to go outside our "norm". Not to say this new way has to become the new norm but it gives us a interesting alternative.
So yes, when i need to get somewhere, i take the most efficient and fast route but when I ride for pleasure , it is these alternatives routes that I seek out.
-
As much as I dislike siding with flat tire, he has a point. I did the same thing with my DSR. I didn't ride it the way I wanted so it would go more miles, then I'd convince myself that going slower longer was better.
If I rode it the way I wanted to, the thermal protection (nanny) light would be flashing at me in 4 good throttle pulls. If I stayed in it anyway, the computer would force me into commuter speeds until I learned my lesson. That got old quick.
I just got back from flogging my ICE bike and it never complained once, just wanted to keep pushing harder. And it was me that pumped the brakes and slowed down, not the bike. And I rode it until I was tiring of riding it, not until it was out of charge.
-
Pay no attention to flattetyre. He poo poos everything on this forum. If he hates ev's so much, than why is he even on here.
-
As much as I dislike siding with flat tire, he has a point. I did the same thing with my DSR. I didn't ride it the way I wanted so it would go more miles, then I'd convince myself that going slower longer was better.
If I rode it the way I wanted to, the thermal protection (nanny) light would be flashing at me in 4 good throttle pulls. If I stayed in it anyway, the computer would force me into commuter speeds until I learned my lesson. That got old quick.
I just got back from flogging my ICE bike and it never complained once, just wanted to keep pushing harder. And it was me that pumped the brakes and slowed down, not the bike. And I rode it until I was tiring of riding it, not until it was out of charge.
I've never seen my thermal protection light flashing ever and ive been riding in 110 degree temps lately. Bike has never fussed ever.
-
I love all these posts where people try to pass off negative aspects of our bikes (long charging, low range at speed) as positives. "Oh wow I get to enjoy the flowers!" "Oh wow I get to drive thru a cool part of town!"
Yeah whatever, you would already be doing it if it was so great. And given a choice, in the long run most people will pick the shortest route home.
I knew that post was from you before I looked at the username.
Seems you also have a lot of time on your hands.
So instead of wasting time here, why don't you go fix your flat tyre?
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
I ran a range/economy experiment today.
Rather than ride the interstate home I took a few side streets to the parks. My one way commute was 51 miles of 30-45mph roads with a fair bit of stop signs/lights. I consumed 36% of my battery capacity. Oh, and the ride was much more peasant, if considerably longer duration.
I have always looked for the shorter, slower routes when I am on my Zeros. Always have and always will. I am never in a hurry, I am retired.
For longer trips, I have a very nice choice of ICE bikes. But I have put more miles on my two Zeros since I have owned them than I have on my seven ICE bikes combined. And by far. The Zeros are ridden almost every day.
I actually wish there was a direct route between here and Reno that was 100% away from the freeway. If there was such with charging stations I would use it every time. I stay off the freeway as much as I reasonably can and I enjoy my two Zeros more than any bikes I have ever owned.
I have plenty of ICE bikes for long distances. The Harley is the most comfortable. The Zeros are the least comfortable-- but I still enjoy them the most of all. The lack of comfort on the stock seat is not a big issue to me as I know I will stop to charge on the longer trips, such as when I go back to Reno. Yeah, I can get back faster on ANY of my ICE bikes. My choice is still my rather uncomfortable SR.
Now that I said that, I do have a limit to how much lack of comfort I can hack. The Zero SR/F is well over that limit. Everything else I really like about the bike, it just doesn't fit me and it only took five minutes on one to be over my limit on reasonable comfort.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
I used to always push hard on the freeway to "optimize my time," but I and some friends have recently discovered feeling much better taking less hectic, less efficient routes.
Keep exploring.
-
I used to always push hard on the freeway to "optimize my time," but I and some friends have recently discovered feeling much better taking less hectic, less efficient routes.
Keep exploring.
Yeah, and with our electric motorcycles, to optimize your time on a long trip, ride very slow! You waste more time charging than you gain by riding fast--and by quite a bit--even at a 6KW charge rate.
IMO, electric motorcycles teach us good habits. Even the slower posted speed limits on many back roads! Many are in a habit of hurry and more hurry--and for no reason other than habit.
If people were truly in a hurry, they would leave a lot earlier instead of rushing everywhere.
I have been riding since the late 1960's. I have never owned a motorcycle that I have enjoyed more than my two Zeros. That's not saying they are good for every trip. If they were, I would give up ICE motorcycles completely.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
Some good posts above. Riding is seldom the easiest way to get somewhere. Even with gas bikes, quick laps but far more gas stops than in a car. Riding my SR/F has encouraged me to take roads I seldom travel, made me more attentive to my riding, and made me learn new things. We could all do with a little more time away from screens and a little more time being engaged in the moment.
-
Much of my range experimentation is to learn more about how my bike is going to behave. I know that this is not a long distance touring machine. But I suspect that I can coax a long distance trip out of it.
In order to do so, I need to learn.
Learn how to manage range.
Learn how to modify the bike for better comfort.
Learn the ins and outs of having an EV.
I cannot do this alone. I have a community of like minded riders who are tackling many of the same issues.
I will continue to read and learn from what others post here.
I will continue to post my experiences and my questions.
-
I've never seen my thermal protection light flashing ever and ive been riding in 110 degree temps lately. Bike has never fussed ever.
Really?
On my very first Zero test ride, I put the demo FX into Level 2 thermal protection mode unknowingly while on the highway. Scared the crap out of me. I thought the bike was shutting off. I had to coast off the highway exit ramp. Every Zero I've ridden minus the SR/F, I've put into at least Level 1 Thermal Protection mode. If I did it on the SR/F, I didn't see the light on the dash, but I never felt it cut the power back likes the pre-SR/F bikes do.
I guess I'm a bad scenario for Zero bikes, a big guy with a heavy hand. They don't take that combo well. At least the pre-SR/F bikes don't. I just jumped in a little too early.
It's ok though, one day they'll make an SR/F that can provide the range/refueling speed of an ICE bike without limiting performance, and I'll buy it.
-
We all make compromises when it comes to having fun. The ride experience of a SR/F is pretty close to perfect for me. No shifting, easy access to a boat load of torque. That's a blast. But for me, that bike would only do 60-70 miles or so before my ride was done. That's just not far enough for me. And even though chargers are popping up in the big cities, I don't want to ride there. I want to be out on some empty country road far away from traffic, so I can lean through the corners in peace. Essentially, there are no L2 chargers where I like to ride a motorcycle. SR/F's are also very expensive. I can buy multiple ICE bikes for the cost of one. It's tough for me to spend $22k on a bike that goes 60 miles a ride.
With my ICE bike, its a compromise too. I have to shift. every. single. gear. I don't possess the skill to make it accelerate as seamlessly as the SR/F does. So despite it being technically quicker than the SR/F, I would lose a drag race from 0-100 against an SR/F every time. Also, it makes noise and that draws unwanted attention in some cases. But on the other hand, racking through the up/down quick shifter and hearing the engine purr through those gears is a thing of beauty that I didn't get with my DSR. Also, at 60 miles, my ICE is ready to keep going. At 140 miles, I spend maybe 4 minutes at gas pump (which are everywhere) and I get another 140 miles out of it.
Both have their pros and cons. Just have to weigh it all out and see which makes the most sense for you. One day, an SR/F will have the range to attract my money.
-
Maybe someday ;if you're lucky; you won't have to worry about the freeway commute. Country driving is where it's at.
-
Zero definately needs to work on cooling if they want to keep up with the compitition. They seem to be falling behind in some areas. I know liquid cooling takes away from the simplicity of electric bikes, but if it makes it more reliable than it's worth it I guess.
-
I did this trip once. A circuit from where I was living at the time, El Cajon, CA (San Diego east county) to Idyllwild and back without repeating any roads, 263 miles. If you know southern California, that's a nice hike. Recharged four times, twice at Pechanga Casino (I'm not one to pass up a free charge!), once at a beautiful inn in Idyllwild, and once in Santa Ysabel. One other time I recharged at Santa Ysabel was when I went with my bike club out to Borrego Springs out in the high desert, about 150 miles round trip, with three recharges.
I'm tired of hearing you can't go for rides on these bikes. You may have to plan your affairs a bit, but you can and many of us have. Terry and Ben put most of the rest of us to shame in the long ride department, but a lot of us have gone for very nice rides many times. Quit whining, log onto PlugShare and you'll be amazed how many nice rides you can plan.
-
We all make compromises when it comes to having fun. The ride experience of a SR/F is pretty close to perfect for me. No shifting, easy access to a boat load of torque.
With my ICE bike, its a compromise too. I have to shift. every. single. gear.
I think you already have one of these, but that's pretty much why the Honda NC7x0X was invented. Shifting in stop-and-go traffic is my least favorite thing to do. Maybe just stick with that until the battery technology catches up?
-
I did this trip once.
How many hours were you stopped for charging?
-
I think you already have one of these, but that's pretty much why the Honda NC7x0X was invented. Shifting in stop-and-go traffic is my least favorite thing to do. Maybe just stick with that until the battery technology catches up?
I have two DCT bikes in the garage, but Honda doesn't make a DCT bike with the weight/performance of an SR/F. If they did, it would be in my garage. I'd love to have a CB1000R DCT.
The closest thing I've found is my 2016 VFR1200X DCT. It's about 4 seconds to 60 mph, top speed is limited to 130 mph. 1st, 2nd and 6th gears are heavily limited by the ECU. But it weighs around 650 lbs. Which is great for loaded down touring, but not ideal if you just want to go carve some curves. It can do it, but it's limited.
Honda used to make a VFR1200F DCT which put out 170hp, it was a big sports tourer, but it flopped and they cancelled it in 2012. Sometimes they come up for sale if you watch closely. Like the X model, it is also limited by the ECU. There is a shop in the Northeast that offers a refresh for that bike that supposedly unleashes its power to point that it will do 0-100mph in 6 seconds with a top speed in the 150's or better. But its still a 630+lb bike, not exactly what you want to carve corners on.
I ended up trading my DSR in on a 2019 Triumph Speed Triple. It makes 148hp, does 0-60 in under 3 seconds (if you have the skills) and tops out who knows where. I had it at 127mph last night and it was just really starting to pull hard in 6th at that point and I let off. Too much for me. It's lighter than the SR/F and handles as well if not better. It's several thousand dollars cheaper than a SR/F as well. It makes for a great corner carving bike, but its ICE and you have to shift every single gear every single ride. Always a compromise.
-
As one of my programmer friends likes to say, "There are no solutions, only tradeoffs."
-
As one of my programmer friends likes to say, "There are no solutions, only tradeoffs."
Ain't that the truth!
-
Even with gas bikes, quick laps but far more gas stops than in a car.
Not always true, my Stelvio has an 8.5 gallon (32L) tank and around a 400 mile (645 KM) range on a tank of gas. Several of my other ICE bikes go more 300 miles (485 KM) on a tank.
I like large gas tanks in my ICE bikes. It's the very first spec that I look at when buying an ICE bike.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
Even with gas bikes, quick laps but far more gas stops than in a car.
Not always true, my Stelvio has an 8.5 gallon (32L) tank and around a 400 mile (645 KM) range on a tank of gas. Several of my other ICE bikes go more 300 miles (485 KM) on a tank.
I like large gas tanks in my ICE bikes. It's the very first spec that I look at when buying an ICE bike.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Range AND mileage. My K1200LT has a 6.6 gallon tank and when I bought it in 1999 I was averaging around 51/52 mpg. Unfortunately, once they replaced MTBE with ethanol as an oxygenate in the fuel, my mileage dropped to about 45 mpg. I thought it was just because of the age of the engine, but when I had the opportunity to use ethanol-free gas (hard to find around here) my mileage jumped right back up to 51 mpg. Makes you wonder exactly WHO is benefiting from the use of ethanol in gasoline...
-
Even with gas bikes, quick laps but far more gas stops than in a car.
Not always true, my Stelvio has an 8.5 gallon (32L) tank and around a 400 mile (645 KM) range on a tank of gas. Several of my other ICE bikes go more 300 miles (485 KM) on a tank.
I like large gas tanks in my ICE bikes. It's the very first spec that I look at when buying an ICE bike.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Range AND mileage. My K1200LT has a 6.6 gallon tank and when I bought it in 1999 I was averaging around 51/52 mpg. Unfortunately, once they replaced MTBE with ethanol as an oxygenate in the fuel, my mileage dropped to about 45 mpg. I thought it was just because of the age of the engine, but when I had the opportunity to use ethanol-free gas (hard to find around here) my mileage jumped right back up to 51 mpg. Makes you wonder exactly WHO is benefiting from the use of ethanol in gasoline...
Ethanol e15 burns cleaner, is cheaper at the pump and lowers our dependence on fossil fuel, but the trade off is lower fuel economy and engine damage especially in older cars.
Not worth the tradeoff imo, unfortunately ethanol-free fuel is getting harder to find.
-
Ethanol e15 burns cleaner, is cheaper at the pump and lowers our dependence on fossil fuel, but the trade off is lower fuel economy and engine damage especially in older cars.
Not worth the tradeoff imo, unfortunately ethanol-free fuel is getting harder to find.
I wonder if anybody else has figured out if the MPG drops there is MORE pollution every trip. Yeah, it measures 5% cleaner at the tailpipe when it takes 10% more fuel to make the same trip. That means more pollution, not less, in the same distance, yet it measures cleaner.
-Don- Auburn, CA
-
More importantly, you're taking something that could be FOOD and turning it into automotive fuel. Ethanol is also hygroscopic, the longer it sits in your tank, the more moisture it sucks out of the air. It's also why transporting ethanol requires a different (more expensive) transport system than petroleum. You can pipe petroleum over MILES. Ethanol requires a more expensive transport. Storing ethanol is another problem as the longer it sits, the more moisture it'll contain. One of the reasons why it damages the fuel systems of older vehicles.
Finally, there's this:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/reduce-air-pollution-do-not-rely-on-ethanol/
-
I personally love fuel with ethanol. The more the merrier. E85 at the pump is one of the best things to happen to the modified car scene.
-
I personally love fuel with ethanol. The more the merrier. E85 at the pump is one of the best things to happen to the modified car scene.
Yeah, burning cooler and higher octane is a win-win, but if it sits for too long it can be a hassle. Availability also changes a lot. There was only one station within a 100 mile radius that had it from my previous house.
-
The other problem is if you are depending on E-85 actually being E-85 you've got a problem. What is sold as E-85 at the pump can legally be anything from around E-40 to E-85. So it becomes a calibration issue if you are depending on the ethanol content for the anti-knock qualities you are looking for. The good "race" ethanol is marketed as E-90. Anyway, like others have mentioned, Ethanol has less heat content (BTU) per gallon than an equivalent amount of pure gasoline. Therefore you mileage may vary. In addition, beyond phase separation problem over time, ethanol in hot climates can be far worse for emissions when refueling or storing compared to pure gasoline.
-
Even with gas bikes, quick laps but far more gas stops than in a car.
Not always true, my Stelvio has an 8.5 gallon (32L) tank and around a 400 mile (645 KM) range on a tank of gas. Several of my other ICE bikes go more 300 miles (485 KM) on a tank.
I like large gas tanks in my ICE bikes. It's the very first spec that I look at when buying an ICE bike.
-Don- Auburn, CA
Range AND mileage. My K1200LT has a 6.6 gallon tank and when I bought it in 1999 I was averaging around 51/52 mpg. Unfortunately, once they replaced MTBE with ethanol as an oxygenate in the fuel, my mileage dropped to about 45 mpg. I thought it was just because of the age of the engine, but when I had the opportunity to use ethanol-free gas (hard to find around here) my mileage jumped right back up to 51 mpg. Makes you wonder exactly WHO is benefiting from the use of ethanol in gasoline...
Ethanol e15 burns cleaner, is cheaper at the pump and lowers our dependence on fossil fuel, but the trade off is lower fuel economy and engine damage especially in older cars.
Not worth the tradeoff imo, unfortunately ethanol-free fuel is getting harder to find.
All motorcycle, boating, older cars, gas-powered tools and other small engine manufacturers warn against using anything above E10. They say it will damage the engine and void any warranty. I believe that the US EPA also warns against using the fuel.