ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Energica => Topic started by: stephen6 on July 23, 2019, 05:17:52 AM
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I have a 2020 Energica Ego. I've owned it for two months now and I really like it. It's my first electric bike.
There is a serious glitch though. Twice, on the 405 freeway, the power has turned off. The situation is that I'm traveling at around 80 mph and then I go to full throttle to pass someone, and the power turns off. A red triangle appears in the left side of the display. To get power again, I have to turn the key off and on, and then lightly apply the brake while pressing the starter switch (this way I don't have to come to a full stop on the freeway).
I have taken the bike to the dealer and they say they will upload the fault history to Energica and Energica will diagnose it. When I looked for the fault after locating it in the menu , there was no record of the fault. I suppose only active faults show.
I'm sure Energica will track this problem down.
There is no obvious cause.
* The battery was nearly fully charged.
* Battery temperature was green.
* All fluid levels are nominal.
The dealer tells me that the 2020 has new firmware, so I guess I'm a field tester.
Has anyone else had a stalling problem?
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Sorry, I haven't had that issue occur on my 2020 EsseEsse9. I just dropped it off at the dealer for it's initial 600 mile service and so far it's been fine.
Based on what I've read re: other brands and electrics in general I would suspect 1 of 4 main areas:
1) Ambient temps...IIRC SoCal's been pretty hot this summer...I've read the electrics don't like very high ambient temps.
2) Loose connection somewhere.
3) Software issue
4) Faulty part (VCU or motor would probably be the only two major components IMHO)
5) Issue with the battery (which may be related to any of the above)
Let us know what your dealer determines to be the cause.
Did you have the 600 mile initial service done already? Was there any kind of firmware update applied at that time?
Just checked my owner's manual and updated the list above to reflect what it says can cause the red triangle to come on (it's a general fault indicator).
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Is it possible that you might have accidentally hit the "kill" switch when turning the throttle? I did that one time while riding my R1200RS on the freeway. My jacket cuff hit the switch and turned the bike off. It took me about 30 seconds in the breakdown lane before I realized what I had done. :-[
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Thanks BigPoppa,
I am having the 600 mile service performed while they troubleshoot the problem.
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Thanks Richard230,
I thought about the possibility of hitting the kill switch. I don't think I hit the switch. I think the act of twisting the throttle to full power might allow me to move the switch in the start direction. I would have to pull on the switch to kill it. If it turns out I touched the switch and turned off the engine, I will cut the switch lever to reduce its length, or build some sort of guard around it.
I really woudn't mind if Energica tells me I pushed the switch in the kill direction, because I can remedy that.
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Not sure this would be firmware or computer related. Could be a faulty kill-switch, so the logs will only reflect a kill-switch turn-off, as if you requested it. The fact that it has only happened on the highway at high-speed is probably more indicative that it may be your hand touching it, as at 80 mph you are probably in a more compressed position, focused on the road (not the throttle) and some aspect of your setup (maybe a leather jacket cuff or such) could be hitting the kill switch when you hit full throttle in that position. Faulty kill switches usually show themselves when they trip when going over bumps or similar at slow speeds. So once you get it back (assuming they didn't find anything), it may be worth to do some highway testing to see if you can figure out what is happening. If it happens again, look at the switch position before doing anything.
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I have to hand it to Energica. They have taken the motorcycle to San Francisco to diagnose the problem. I live in Mission Viejo, CA just south of LA, so it's a fairly long haul for them. They say they will have it back to me in a week, which would be August 5. As soon as they tell me what was wrong I'll post it. I'm impressed with their level of effort to fix a customer's problem.
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Good news! :) Zero used to provide service like that during 2012. Not so much now though. :(
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OK. The Ego is back from San Francisco and the stalling problem has been diagnosed.
There is a sensor under the seat that senses whether the seat is up or not. If the seat is up, the software does not let the bike transmit power to the rear wheel.
The sensor was faulty and when I shifted my weight in preparation for full throttle, it indicated the the seat was up, and the software cut the power.
The solution right now is to remove the seat position switch, and that is what has been done for my bike, and I'm happy with that.
There is an error in the control logic that does not acknowledge that when the bike is in motion (80 mph let's say) the seat is probably not up. Therefore, if the sensor indicates the seat is up, and the bike is in motion, the software should not cut the power. Energica acknowledges the logic problem and will change the software.
Overall, I'm very happy with the way Energica attacked this problem.
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Never mind.
The day after I got the 2020 Energica Ego back, I was riding to work and the power turned off once again. The bike is now back at the dealer.
So the solution has not been discovered. One thing I know is that my fingers never touched the kill switch. The Energica kill switch is not a momentary switch. If you push it to the "off" position, it stays locked in the off position until you toggle it into the "on"position. When the power cut off, in rush hour traffic on the 405 in Orange County :( , my first reaction was "Where are my hands?" and "What does the display say."
The following is the detailed account I gave the dealer for trouble shooting.
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The engine shut down occurred on the 405 at around 9:45 AM 8/15/2019.
The engine turned off as I started to accelerate from about 70 mph. I was not pinning the throttle, just accelerating normally.
I checked the position of my hands. My right had was not close to the kill switch.
The display showed the following:
Unknown error - contact service.
Red triangle on left side of display.
Yellow engine light on right side.
Coasted from the HOV lane to the side of the road. Turned the key off and on while still moving. Applied the brake lightly, while moving about 20 mph, and pushed the start lever for a couple seconds and the engine started.
Upon restarting the bike, the red triangle and error message went out. The yellow engine light continued to show.
Engine temperature was green. Charge was about 80%.
Continued to ride to work with no incident.
After parking the bike at work and turning it on again, the Diagnostics on MyEnergica show no fault. The on bike status shows OK.
When restarting the motorcycle at work, the ABS light and Engine light came on on the right side of the display. After riding the bike for a few feet and applying the brakes, the ABS light turned off, but the yellow Engine light on the right side of the display remained on.
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So far I have had three stalling instances. They all happened around 70 or 80 mph, and occurred when I started to accelerate. 70 to 80 is around the area on the torque curve where the engine is transitioning from constant torque to constant power. I think that there is a perfect storm that happens at a particular rpm when you try to accelerate. There's probably only a +/- 10 rpm window where the software thinks there is an error when you try to accelerate, and I've hit that region 3 times.
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Bummer to hear the issue persists. I'm definitely watching this thread with interest.
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Bummer to hear the issue persists. I'm definitely watching this thread with interest.
So am I. Those type of problems are the very worse type to troubleshoot. You probably remember all the wrong guesses that were made on why the new TTSE's were shutting down before the real reason was discovered. It's very difficult to troubleshoot anything while it is working normally during the testing.
OTOH, some of these weird problems can be solved with a firmware update. My Tesla backup camera was intermittent. Worked a bit less than half the time. Then a new FW update and no problem with it since.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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A stall on the 405 in the HOV lane does not make for a good day. You were lucky not to become someone's Energica hood ornament. :o
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Abstruse, radio waves. It did not happen at the same spot?
Bad connection some where.
Good luck with that.
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Stephen,
I have had the same thing happen on my 2017 EVA - oddly enough, also on the 405 fwy. I sympathize with the fact that this is scary - it's as if the chain snapped when it happens.
That said, I was also having issues with an unstable throttle control. When the throttle was partially open, I would sometimes feel the bike surging and when checking the display, I could see the power bar jumping around erratically. Energica replaced the throttle control assembly and I have not had any problems since.
Have you noticed any surging or weird throttle behavior?
Don
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Thanks for the comment. I haven't noticed an unstable throttle, but I'll pass that info along to the dealer. I'm going to call them tomorrow to see what their strategy is.
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The dealer is sending my bike back to Energica in San Francisco. Don's comment on a bad throttle system was very helpful. I hope they figure out the problem. Only two more weeks in the shop or two more repair trips, and its a lemon. I really like the bike. Im trying to be understanding and patient. I hope they fix it.
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OK. The Energica Dealer Service Center in Redwood, California (just below San Francisco) has been able to replicate my stalling problem. The power turned off when increasing the throttle between 70 and 80 mph. They saw that the error was "failure to communicate with the inverter". They checked all the wiring going to the inverter and there was no problem. They replaced the inverter and have not been able to cause the engine to stall since. So, it sounds like they fixed the motorcycle and will ship it back to Mission Viejo soon. It's a relief when the dealer can replicate a problem and no longer has suspicions that "maybe this guy is just crazy". ;D
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Thanks for the update! Definitely a good thing when mechanics/engineers (are the folks who work on EVs engineers, mechanics, or electricians?) can reproduce a problem.
I still have an intermittently faulty TPS in my wife's Escape that miraculously works every time it's been in the shop for oil changes and stuff. Unfortunately, nothing to indicate which one and each one runs over $200. I'm just waiting for it to die completely at this point.
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OK. The Energica Dealer Service Center in Redwood, California (just below San Francisco) has been able to replicate my stalling problem. The power turned off when increasing the throttle between 70 and 80 mph. They saw that the error was "failure to communicate with the inverter". They checked all the wiring going to the inverter and there was no problem. They replaced the inverter and have not been able to cause the engine to stall since. So, it sounds like they fixed the motorcycle and will ship it back to Mission Viejo soon. It's a relief when the dealer can replicate a problem and no longer has suspicions that "maybe this guy is just crazy". ;D
Good news and good luck! :) It doesn't happen very often that the dealer can replicate a very intermittent problem. ;)
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Just FYI. The inverter on our motorcycles is a major piece of water cooled equipment. I've circled it in the picture below on an Ego. It's purpose is of course to convert DC battery power to three phase AC for the motor.
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Just FYI. The inverter on our motorcycles is a major piece of water cooled equipment. I've circled it in the picture below on an Ego. It's purpose is of course to convert DC battery power to three phase AC for the motor.
Called the motor controller on Zeros.
I noticed that the "inverter" on my SS9 is made in the USA! What does the label on yours say?
Seems strange that the CA made Zero uses Chinese parts and the Italian made Energica uses parts made here in the USA.
On the top of your inverter, I think the small thingy towards the front is the Bluetooth module.
What is the larger thingy behind it?
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Previous model year Zeroes used SevCon controllers. The SR/F uses a model made by SME I believe. The Energica ones are from Rinehart.
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Interesting placement of the inverter. I assumed that was where the charger was located. So where is the charger(s)?
They all have level 2ish 3kw AC chargers and the CCS setup. Correct?
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The charging module is under the rear seat. Under the fan assembly and what not. It's like a long heat sink looking thingy (technical term...I promise...lol).
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Ok, thanks there BigPoppa. I haven't seen an Energica in person yet, no dealers in GA.
I didn't see much of a tail section from that Naked Ego picture so I just figured there was nothing there but light wiring.
I have to say I always thought that was a better place for a charger than right under the battery. Heat can escape all around with no ill effects. That's likely why it has been moved with the SRF.
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The Energica charging port is under the seat, so the seat is open during a charge. Charger is all in the tail. There is also a charger fan under the seat to cool the charger.
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Time to get a new bike.
The bike stalled for a fourth time on me this morning. I was on the 405 at 9:45AM crossing from the HOV lane to the Jamboree exit. I started to accelerated toward a hole in traffic and bang, no power. I had enough speed and traffic was sparse enough that I was able to coast to the shoulder, turn off the bike, and restart.
I've called the dealer and told them that I need a new bike. They agreed that I have been very patient, and will contact Energica to see when I can get a new bike.
Today was actually dangerous.
Just to recount what this bike has done:
1. Stalls on the freeway a couple of days after I bought it. I figured I must have done something wrong and continue to ride.
2. Stalls on the freeway within a week. I know I was not at fault and take it to the dealer. They send it to Redmond ,CA for two weeks. Energica thinks it's a seat position sensor.
3. Stalls again on the freeway. I take it to the dealer. They send it back to Redmond, CA and after two weeks I get it back. They replaced the inverter.
4. Stalls while crossing traffic on the freeway, two days after I get it back from the dealer.
I'm taking it back to the dealer again today, for the third time for the same problem. Time to get a new bike. :(
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3. Stalls again on the freeway. I take it to the dealer. They send it back to Redmond, CA and after two weeks I get it back. They replaced the inverter.
4. Stalls while crossing traffic on the freeway, two days after I get it back from the dealer.
I'm taking it back to the dealer again today, for the third time for the same problem. Time to get a new bike. :(
I wonder if your problem could be something such as corrupted firmware making it look more like a hardware issue when there is really no hardware problem.
BTW, many new Triumph Trophys had the exact same symptoms you're describing. After a lot of incorrect guesswork and replaced good parts, the real reason was discovered. The ECM was randomly rebooting which would cause the engine to die. Would always restart and run fine until perhaps the next day or so on the freeway and the engine would die again, and it caused many close calls with death. They believed the reason for the random reboot was the random ignition noise. But the fix was to replace the ECM on every bike with one that was better filtered for noise and that was the real fix.
I assume you mean Redwood City, CA. My Energica is also there, but for a much different reason. The master key was lost (by them, before I purchased the bike), so they are changing my immobilizer.
They picked up my bike from Auburn, CA and are also doing my 600 mile service and bringing it back to my house all at no cost to me. So I have no complaints. The bike is now ready, 600 mile service completed and immobilizer has been replaced, and they are about to bring it back.
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
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Stephen,
I have had the same thing happen on my 2017 EVA - oddly enough, also on the 405 fwy.
Has anybody had this problem when NOT on the 405 freeway? I am thinking some type of very strong interfering signal there screwing up the electronics in the bike, causing the engine to die.
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
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3. Stalls again on the freeway. I take it to the dealer. They send it back to Redmond, CA and after two weeks I get it back. They replaced the inverter.
4. Stalls while crossing traffic on the freeway, two days after I get it back from the dealer.
I'm taking it back to the dealer again today, for the third time for the same problem. Time to get a new bike. :(
I wonder if your problem could be something such as corrupted firmware making it look more like a hardware issue when there is really no hardware problem.
BTW, many new Triumph Trophys had the exact same symptoms you're describing. After a lot of incorrect guesswork and replaced good parts, the real reason was discovered. The ECM was randomly rebooting which would cause the engine to die. Would always restart and run fine until perhaps the next day or so on the freeway and the engine would die again, and it caused many close calls with death. They believed the reason for the random reboot was the random ignition noise. But the fix was to replace the ECM on every bike with one that was better filtered for noise and that was the real fix.
I assume you mean Redwood City, CA. My Energica is also there, but for a much different reason. The master key was lost (by them, before I purchased the bike), so they are changing my immobilizer.
They picked up my bike from Auburn, CA and are also doing my 600 mile service and bringing it back to my house all at no cost to me. So I have no complaints. The bike is now ready, 600 mile service completed and immobilizer has been replaced, and they are about to bring it back.
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
Hi Don,
Yes it's Redwood City. I assume they have looked at all angles to fix the stalling problem, and maybe reflashed the firmware. I think they need to take this bike back and make it a daily driver for one of the mechanics who can make it his mission to find out what is wrong. I can't beta test this every two weeks.
As far as the stalls all occurring on the 405, all I can say is that is my route to and from work. The guys in Redwood City have been able to replicate the problem, but haven't found the final solution, so I think that rules out the electronic interference. But I am so frustrated I could be convinced that space aliens are interfering with it, because they themselves have evolved into electronic creatures and view my riding on the back of an EV as cruel :o.
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Hi Don,
Yes it's Redwood City. I assume they have looked at all angles to fix the stalling problem, and maybe reflashed the firmware. I think they need to take this bike back and make it a daily driver for one of the mechanics who can make it his mission to find out what is wrong. I can't beta test this every two weeks.
As far as the stalls all occurring on the 405, all I can say is that is my route to and from work. The guys in Redwood City have been able to replicate the problem, but haven't found the final solution, so I think that rules out the electronic interference. But I am so frustrated I could be convinced that space aliens are interfering with it, because they themselves have evolved into electronic creatures and view my riding on the back of an EV as cruel :o.
That's great that they have seen the problem for themselves. They probably want to figure out the cause more than anybody, but intermittents that only crap out once in a great while are usually the toughest of all problems to solve. It would be a lot easier to fix if it had the exact same issue at every time above 80 MPH. And a road test of 80 MPH around Redwood City won't be all that easy as well.
And as you have already discovered, another problem with such intermittent is you never really know when they are fixed.
I spent most of my life troubleshooting professionally, so I have seen it all.
Good luck to Energica and you on this one.
-Don- Reno, NV
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:) :) :)
As of today (10/1) I have a new 2020 Energica Ego motorcycle.
It's been a long and frustrating process, but the dealer, without having to be pressured, exchanged the old bike for a new one. For DMV purposes the justification was Lemon Law.
So Energica has done all that could be asked of them. I'm a bit gun shy about the motor, but I think there is a extremely good chance that the stalling was a fluke, specific to that one bike. A fluke that I'm sure Energica will eventually get to the bottom of.
It's great to have an electric bike again. I'm hooked on the torque, and never having to stop at a gas station. ;D
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Awesome! It’s really cool the dealer and manufacturer did right by you. I don’t know how long Energica can keep up this level of service but I think it’s great they’re doing the right thing. Makes me glad I decided to with the brand.
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:) :) :)
As of today (10/1) I have a new 2020 Energica Ego motorcycle.
It's been a long and frustrating process, but the dealer, without having to be pressured, exchanged the old bike for a new one. For DMV purposes the justification was Lemon Law.
So Energica has done all that could be asked of them. I'm a bit gun shy about the motor, but I think there is a extremely good chance that the stalling was a fluke, specific to that one bike. A fluke that I'm sure Energica will eventually get to the bottom of.
It's great to have an electric bike again. I'm hooked on the torque, and never having to stop at a gas station. ;D
I think this is good for Energica as well. No doubt they want to figure it out as they have the time, without having to rush the bike back to you.
BTW, did Lawrence pick up your bike and take it to Redwood City? I think he mentioned your bike to me when he came to pick up my SS9, but for a very different reasons. They lost my two extra keys (the master and spare) before I bought the bike, so Energica picked up the bike from my house here in Auburn and took it to their shop in Redwood City so they could change my immobilizer and give me a new set of keys. They also did my 600 mile service --all at no cost to me. They brought the bike back in about a week later, and I got an e-mail about what they did and checked for the 600 mile service (at 883 miles). I am very happy with their excellent service.
This is my main bike to travel on between my Reno and Auburn houses. I make one 15 minute charge stop at the summit (right at the middle) and have juice left over when I get here. A 100 mile trip, exactly.
I too am hooked on electric everything--even my lawnmower is electric. It's now to the point that I will never buy an ICE anything for the rest of my life.
The SS9 cruise control works so well in the mountains unlike any ICE vehicle. All that wide torque range with no tranny shifting.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I really wanna ride those mountains with CCS. Soon, hopefully. We should definitely do a group ride.
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I really wanna ride those mountains with CCS. Soon, hopefully. We should definitely do a group ride.
Sounds good to me.
There are MANY CCS charge stations between here and Reno. I came from Reno yesterday (Tuesday). I got a 14 minute charge (to 80 SOC) at the half way point near the summit and had 16 miles range left when I got here, exactly 100 miles from Reno. I charged in KingVale yesterday. Last time I charged at Nyack Road making this trip. But there are also CCS chargers in Colfax, Dutch Flat, Truckee and of course here in Auburn as well as in Reno. Free at the Harley shop in Reno at a rather slow 15 KW. On I-80, I charge at the full 25 KW, but it cost a few bucks.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I think this is good for Energica as well. No doubt they want to figure it out as they have the time, without having to rush the bike back to you.
BTW, did Lawrence pick up your bike and take it to Redwood City? I think he mentioned your bike to me when he came to pick up my SS9, but for a very different reasons. They lost my two extra keys (the master and spare) before I bought the bike, so Energica picked up the bike from my house here in Auburn and took it to their shop in Redwood City so they could change my immobilizer and give me a new set of keys. They also did my 600 mile service --all at no cost to me. They brought the bike back in about a week later, and I got an e-mail about what they did and checked for the 600 mile service (at 883 miles). I am very happy with their excellent service.
This is my main bike to travel on between my Reno and Auburn houses. I make one 15 minute charge stop at the summit (right at the middle) and have juice left over when I get here. A 100 mile trip, exactly.
I too am hooked on electric everything--even my lawnmower is electric. It's now to the point that I will never buy an ICE anything for the rest of my life.
The SS9 cruise control works so well in the mountains unlike any ICE vehicle. All that wide torque range with no tranny shifting.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Hi Don,
I'm not sure who took it back to Redwood city. They transferred my Ohlins shock, and the wiring for my radar detector, onto the new bike.
I did a lot of hard acceleration this morning between 70 and 80 mph, and no stalling. I think this bike will be OK.
The dealership is Mission Motorsports in Irvine, CA. They and Energica did good by me.
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My new Energica Ego stalled on the 5 this morning.
This is the totally new bike that the dealer gave me to replace the fist Ego I bought, that stalled several times.
Energica was able to replicate the stalling on the first bike, but they were not able to fix it.
The stalling was the same as all the other times. I'm in the HOV lane; I start to accelerate to pass a car and the motor turns off.
I coast to the narrow HOV shoulder. Turn the motor off and on and restart the bike.
The error messages are the same as before:
Unknown error - contact service.
Red triangle on left side of display.
Yellow engine light on right side.
The only difference this time is that the display changed to metric. km and kph. All other settings were unchanged (TC=3, engine braking low, abs on)
I wear a Garmin Virb 360 on my helmet, so i have a 360 degree video of everything around me. You can see my hands, the dash, the speed I'm going and what happens when the bike stalls. It stalls and all I've done is turn the throttle while traveling between 70 and 80 mph. My thumb doesn't hit anything.
I couldn't be more demoralized. When the bike works, I really enjoy it.
There is something fundamentally wrong with the batch of 2020 Energica Egos that I've had.
I just don't want it any more. I'll buy an electric bike when Kawasaki, Yamaha, or Honda come out with a sports bike. Right now, I just want my money back.
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I had been following this thread because I want an Energica and was at least thankful my 2017 Zero SR was reliable. But 3 weeks ago ago the bike stalled under full throttle acceleration (Eco mode, 40-ft lbs with 70 mph limit) while passing a Prius and throttle was unresponsive until kill switch was cycled. I had pulled over because I thought I snapped the belt again, but I'm not sure if it would have worked while moving. https://youtu.be/7MnMGWC1aLQ?list=PLS4nJ-eLD9EYOaPobQPiKbb120pG4qiSl&t=44
I look forward to seeing this fix in the Energica firmware changelog.
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Sounds like electrical interference. Have you always used the camera?
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Sounds like electrical interference. Have you always used the camera?
I too would have guessed that as a possibility however, Energica in Redwood City was able to duplicate the problem on his old bike, which means interference is unlikely.
Remember the Police Kaw 1000's? The City of San Francisco had them. The very first problem we discovered is when the cop used the police radio, the engine would die.
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
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Something similar happened with a lady that is riding a Royal Enfield around the world and posting her adventures on YouTube. She bought a drone to film some of her adventures and the drone controller started interfering with the after-market electronic performance gadget that she installed on her bike to richen the engine mixture. When she would fly the drone, the check-engine light would come on and the bike would run poorly. So she removed the gadget (something like a Power Commander) and didn't have any problems after that. So I guess electrical interference can be a problem with electrical components under certain circumstances. But how you would track down that sort of interference is a mystery to me.
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It seems that one of the EVs was having a problem until they grounded the swing arm.
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My new Energica Ego stalled on the 5 this morning.
This is the totally new bike that the dealer gave me to replace the fist Ego I bought, that stalled several times.
Energica was able to replicate the stalling on the first bike, but they were not able to fix it.
The stalling was the same as all the other times. I'm in the HOV lane; I start to accelerate to pass a car and the motor turns off.
I coast to the narrow HOV shoulder. Turn the motor off and on and restart the bike.
The error messages are the same as before:
Unknown error - contact service.
Red triangle on left side of display.
Yellow engine light on right side.
The only difference this time is that the display changed to metric. km and kph. All other settings were unchanged (TC=3, engine braking low, abs on).
What a bummer!
When I bought my Triumph Trophy SE (first year model, 2013) many riders had a problem where it would just die with no warning when on the freeway. At first, nobody had a clue what was causing it, and shops were making a lot of incorrect guesses. Many people used lemon laws or whatever they could do after the bike almost got them killed a few times. Right after the engine dies, a restart was good for perhaps hundreds more miles until it happened again.
What Triumph finally discovered is that the electrical noise from the engine, perhaps at certain RPMs for so many seconds, would cause the ECM (Electronic Control Module) to reboot and as it was rebooting the engine would die. It was very random and only effected some of the bikes (not mine). They recalled every bike to replace the ECM to one that was better filtered for engine electrical noise and that totally solved the problem.
Anyway, I assume Energica, likewise, will discover the problem with the Ego and fix it, perhaps in a simple FW update or whatever.
Please keep us updated on this problem. While I can understand while you want to give up, I assume Energica will soon discover the problem and have it fixed. But it will probably mean a big recall, as Triumph had.
-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV
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Keep trying different things until you fix a problem like this.
Reroute wires, twist wires, ground wires, turn things on, off and so forth.
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Thanks Don,
If there was a solid wall of cars to my left (as is common during weekday rush hour), and the engine stalled, I might have had to stop on the line dividing the HOV traffic from normal traffic, a single line. That would be near suicidal. There is something fundamentally wrong with the 2020 Energica Egos. Something wears out or changes at about the 130ish mile mark. The other Ego had its first stall at around 130ish miles. So it's a problem that is not apparent during new bike testing. It takes some miles before it manifests itself.
I'm a licensed professional engineer and an Aerospace Stress Engineer by specialization for 35 years. I deal with failure analysis or new designs every day. If I could figure this out, I would tell you. I wish I were an electrical engineer to solve this problem.
I have to return this one and get my money back.
Best regards,
Steve
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For what it’s worth (and it’s probably not worth much), I test rode a (2018?) Ego and it stalled at ~50 MPH during a full power acceleration from a stop. I got the same “get service†message and turning it off and back on fixed it until I got back to the dealer.
Ancedotes don’t make data of course, and maybe it’s much more of a problem for whatever for 2020s, but this definitely isn’t a 2020 only problem.
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For what it’s worth (and it’s probably not worth much), I test rode a (2018?) Ego and it stalled at ~50 MPH during a full power acceleration from a stop. I got the same “get service†message and turning it off and back on fixed it until I got back to the dealer.
Ancedotes don’t make data of course, and maybe it’s much more of a problem for whatever for 2020s, but this definitely isn’t a 2020 only problem.
Hopefully, it is only an EGO problem and does not affect my SS9. I have almost 2K miles on my SS9, and I have had no such problem.
-Don- Reno, NV
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I have to return this one and get my money back.
Best regards,
Steve
Have you ridden the SS9? If so, how did you find it to compare to the Ego?
I am curious if you would consider a different model if other Energica models have no trace of this problem, or does this problem make you want to give up with Energica?
-Don- Reno, NV
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For what it’s worth (and it’s probably not worth much), I test rode a (2018?) Ego and it stalled at ~50 MPH during a full power acceleration from a stop. I got the same “get service†message and turning it off and back on fixed it until I got back to the dealer.
Ancedotes don’t make data of course, and maybe it’s much more of a problem for whatever for 2020s, but this definitely isn’t a 2020 only problem.
Just to piggy back and add even less relevant data, the old Translogic review of the Lightning LS218 had it freeze up on the test ride.
I would guess it's a software issue but I agree it has to be addressed ASAP.
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Any owners of EVA 107's have similar issues? I wonder if it could be related to the higher power motor in the Ego/Eva107. I've got almost 3k miles on my SS9 and I haven't had any stalling...yet and I ride my SS9 quite aggressively.
If it's unique to the Ego, I wonder if it could be some kind of software or reboot issue since I believe the Ego's are the only models that are limited to 150mph vs 125mph for the Eva107 and SS9.
Sorry you've had such a bad experience with the bikes and I can understand being at the end of your patience, especially with the cutouts happening in commute traffic. Even if my SS9 starts exhibiting the same behavior I'll probably still keep it and ride it since I have another bike to fall back on if needed.
Stalling issue aside, I'm very pleased to hear about the excellent customer service Energica has provided to date even if they haven't been able to resolve the issue for you.
Hopefully you'll stay in the electrics camp and let us know what bike you get next (even if it's not an electric).
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I've got almost 3k miles on my SS9 and I haven't had any stalling...yet and I ride my SS9 quite aggressively.
If it only happens above 80 MPH, I cannot really say about mine.
I normally ride like a little old lady (kinda slow). Mine has only been above 80 MPH a few times. And BTW, like most European bikes, 80 MPH shown on the speedometer is probably less than 75 MPH.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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I have to return this one and get my money back.
Best regards,
Steve
Have you ridden the SS9? If so, how did you find it to compare to the Ego?
I am curious if you would consider a different model if other Energica models have no trace of this problem, or does this problem make you want to give up with Energica?
-Don- Reno, NV
Hi Don,
I've ridden full fairing sports bike for 30 years now. It's really what I like.
I would buy the Lightning 218 if it had all the Energica electronics. But it doesn't have ABS or traction control. And as far as I can tell, they advertise it but they haven't sold any yet.
My crash rate of 2 to three street crashes a year plummeted to 1 every 4 years since I got my first ABS/TC bike a 2012 Ninja ZX 10R. I will always have ABS and TC and any other thing they come up with to keep the rubber side down.
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For what it’s worth (and it’s probably not worth much), I test rode a (2018?) Ego and it stalled at ~50 MPH during a full power acceleration from a stop. I got the same “get service†message and turning it off and back on fixed it until I got back to the dealer.
Ancedotes don’t make data of course, and maybe it’s much more of a problem for whatever for 2020s, but this definitely isn’t a 2020 only problem.
Thanks Boardwalk. Tha's a good data point. I'm supposed to have a call with Chris Paz today, head of Energica's technical staff for the US. I'll mention your stalling incident.
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FWIW, I once had a similar issue with the RMS controller on my bike. It turned out that I had programmed two of the throttle parameters too close together. Unfortunately I can not recall exactly what they were and I'm not at home where my notes are.
Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk
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. If I could figure this out, I would tell you. I wish I were an electrical engineer to solve this problem.
I have to return this one and get my money back.
Any new news on this issue? I am very curious how all this will turn out in the end.
-Don- Reno, NV
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The saga is over.
Energica did their best to try an figure out why the Ego was stalling but after the second bike stalled in the same situation they decided to refund my money. They did this very promptly and without any protestations.
I'm a mechanical engineer, so electric motors are not my forte. But I've educated myself on the permanent magnet AC motor (PMAC) and I think I know basically what is happening. The engine shuts off sometimes when trying to accelerate between 70 and 80 mph which is around 4700 rpm, which is the end of the max constant torque portion of the torque curve (see graph). At just the right time, I twist the throttle, and it stalls. Full up with gear, I weigh 312 lb (think viking not sumo), so I ask for more voltage momentarily than most riders. The bike tries to protect itself from an overvoltage before the field weakening takes effect. How do I know it's an overvoltage? The stalling has only happened when the bike is 80% or more charged. So the stalling only happens when there is enough voltage to allow it to happen. The battery voltage decreases as the battery charge is depleted. Maybe an electrical engineer on the forum with deeper understanding can propose a better explanation.
I believe that Energica is a quality outfit that will eventually figure out why this stalling occurs. They say it only occurs with bike's I've ridden which is why I mention the only thing I can think of that differentiates me from most riders is my weight. The fact that I rode the bikes every day in SoCal freeway HOV lanes at around 70 to 80 mph, fully charged every morning, gave my bike more exposure to the regime where the stalling can happen.
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I'm wondering if there's something different about the EsseEsse9 and it's lower power (80kw vs 107kw). I'm a heavy guy too...250lbs without gear. Add in gear and my usual commuting stuff in the side cases and I would say I'm not too far off from you.
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I'm wondering if there's something different about the EsseEsse9 and it's lower power (80kw vs 107kw). I'm a heavy guy too...250lbs without gear. Add in gear and my usual commuting stuff in the side cases and I would say I'm not too far off from you.
Hi @BigPoppa,
do you mean that you don't experience this on your Esseesse9? Have you tried to reproduce this?
Not that I'm that concerned, I'm nowhere near that weight, but it is something to take into account that there is a situation which will cause the motorcycle to stall (heavy load + heavy acceleration).
It would really reflect well upon Energica if they tackled this.
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Correct, I haven’t experienced this issue on my EsseEsse9. My 38 mile freeway commute involves stretches of low speed lane splitting and high speed blasts on less crowded sections. I routinely accelerate in spurts from 70+ to 90+ and I haven’t had any stalls in over 4000 miles of mostly commute riding.
Although I haven’t weighed myself with all my gear on and all my daily gear (laptop, lunch, etc) I’m probably not too far away from the 300lb mark.
Again, I have to wonder if the stalling issue may be related to the difference in tuning between the two models (Ego vs EsseEsse9). That’s why I was wondering if any Eva107’s exhibited this behavior. I may be wrong but based on further reading it’s my understanding that the motors are the same across all three models but the tuning is different on the EsseEsse9 resulting in lower power while the Ego is the only model allowed to hit 150 while the others are limited to 125.
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What SoC are you guys starting to notice a significant drop in power? I can't pull more than 60 kW when my Ego's at a less than 85%.
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I can't say that I ever noticed a loss of power due to state of charge. How can you tell what the bikes power output is? It must be on one of the screen variants that I didn't use.
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Toggle mode button to the right once and it will give a more detailed readout of power consumption. Another toggle will add a visual representation in the form of a graph.
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After further testing, it seems that either the inverter or the battery is heating up fairly quickly. After 3 or so minutes of hard riding, the battery indicator turns yellow and the regen braking turns off. Ambient temperature was 62 f today.
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After further testing, it seems that either the inverter or the battery is heating up fairly quickly. After 3 or so minutes of hard riding, the battery indicator turns yellow and the regen braking turns off. Ambient temperature was 62 f today.
Please define hard riding :) is that top speed, or just spirited riding at (Vmax + 10 )nearly legal speeds?
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After further testing, it seems that either the inverter or the battery is heating up fairly quickly. After 3 or so minutes of hard riding, the battery indicator turns yellow and the regen braking turns off. Ambient temperature was 62 f today.
Please define hard riding :) is that top speed, or just spirited riding at (Vmax + 10 )nearly legal speeds?
It was the latter, hard full throttle acceleration out of corners along with using mostly regen braking while entering new turns. I didn't make it more than 2 miles before I lost power and regen.
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Hey have you checked the fluid levels of the controller coolant? Maybe it's low.
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I’ll try finding the coolant level, thanks.
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I’ll try finding the coolant level, thanks.
On my SS9, need to remove the left side of the tank to view the coolant level. Very easy to do. Probably the same on your bike.
-Don- Tucson, AZ (RV)
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I won't be able to do this until tonight after I get off work, sadly. My manual says I'll need to pull the right and left side covers and remove the upper fairing (tank). Not too bad!
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The coolant level’s good, right up there to the ‘max’ line in the inspection window.
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I wonder if the pump is malfunctioning. Do you hear the pump cycle when you key the bike on? It's that little mechanical whirring sound.
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Yep I’m hearing it. I think I’ll chalk this up as I’m probably riding a bit too hard with regen set to high. Next time I get a chance, I’ll try the same but with regen set to medium. Also, I’ll wait to see if the warmer summer months make things tougher.
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I'd reach out to Energica as well.
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Problems, like that are really tricky to find. Persistence pays off. Good job.
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Problems, like that are really tricky to find. Persistence pays off. Good job.
Yep. It reminds me of a tricky problem they had on many Triumph Trophies when they first came out in year 2013, driving motorcycle shops nuts when none of their guesses would fix the problem of the bike stalling on freeways. Happening to many.
Triumph finally figured out the cause. The engine noise was causing the ECM (Electronic Control Module) to reboot randomly at freeway speeds. They did a recall of every bike to change the ECM to one where the engine electrical noise had no effect.
Mine never had the problem, but was still recalled.
Newly designed bikes seem to always have a few bugs that do not show up until there are hundreds of riders. Nothing new, even back in the 1960's before the high tech stuff.
-Don- Reno, NV