ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Francois on April 19, 2019, 01:35:20 PM
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I would like to have a FXS/F
nice break
nice motor
trei frame
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Indeed - I have a FXS and would love larger tires, bigger torque and acceleration control.
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I'd like higher performance FXS, too. The challenge is if you add everything that everyone wants, it will be a very capable machine, but no longer a fun, light, relatively cheap hooligan bike.
The thought process reminds me of the Mini being brought to the US. I remember them before they were imported. A big part of the appeal was that it was small yet capable, but so many reviewers wanted more of this and that and now it's (well the lineup) just another car to me.
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It's been done by Hollywood Electrics. You can go to the 3:00 mark for the Pike's Peak bike review.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4b6xrqMI4Y
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It could easily be done by Zero, the 7.2 batteries are not the bottleneck and could accomodate a sevcon size 6, and it looks like theres room for a 75-7 motor in the FX. If they offered a bolt on upgrade like this I would buy it tomorrow. I'd be half tempted to just buy a 75-7 and a size 6 controller but I'm unsure how the fx MBB would handle that.
MVetter has made a DeathFX with a size 6 controller and a slightly different 75-5 motor. From the sounds of it, it rips really hard.
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I've been operating under the assumption that the SR/F was intended to be 2020's model year bump, but was triggered early because of Harley's announcement of the LiveWire and Lightning's announcement of the Strike.
So I'd expect some pretty significant changes to the whole model line in 2020, EXCEPT for the SR/F.
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I've been operating under the assumption that the SR/F was intended to be 2020's model year bump, but was triggered early because of Harley's announcement of the LiveWire and Lightning's announcement of the Strike.
So I'd expect some pretty significant changes to the whole model line in 2020, EXCEPT for the SR/F.
That seems logical to me too. Why would Zero spend so much development time on an entirely new platform if they were not going to use it on the rest of their lineup in the future? Plus, this year's owners of the SR/F can be the beta-testers for the new model, before production ramps up and starts infiltrating into the S and DS style platforms. That way any bugs can be worked out before the complete 2020 model line is introduced.
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To be pedantic, the size 6 FXS builds would be FXSR, not FXS/F. F is the new platform, not just a controller and cable swap.
The F frame is very hefty. It’s possible they might make a tiny dirt bike frame from the same principles but it won’t be the same exact hardware, so I’d bet on at least a year before such a beast emerges.
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This is what Zero said in one of their facebook posts to a question like this:
Zero Motorcycles
Zero Motorcycles The SR/F tech will make its way to the rest of the line soon enough, and battery tech will keep improving. Keep the faith alive!
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I try the SR/F
i confirme it is a top bike
i will love to have a FXS/F and not a FXSR
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I tried the SRF too. Same here - i like the lighter FXS, but would appreciate larger tires with more grip, +50% range and +100% torque.
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140 ft-lbs. of torque on a 289 lb. dirt bike?
And people complain about the R models being dangerous...
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true lot off power on the R without good break
the SR/F got more power but got break to, better balance, that why i will prefere a FXS/F that a FXSR
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140 ft-lbs. of torque on a 289 lb. dirt bike?
And people complain about the R models being dangerous...
As a "dirt bike" with one battery the weight quoted is in the 250's. It would be more an adventure or dual purpose at 289 pounds. Your classifications may vary. As far as dangerous one of those 450cc race bikes are real easy to buy.
It would be intresting to a chart of the actual thrust at the bottom of the tire vs degree of throttle twist. And then for the ice and it's various gears. Then the torque will drop off once max hp is reached, at least the way I understand it.
Actually it might be rather involved and adjustable. My ktm clearly makes more thrust with more twist at low speed but at 35mph it will go from level to hill and hold 35 no twisting needed.
When they do upgrade the FX series I will pay attention. I have no intrest in a street bike with an 6 inch wide rear rim like this new offering.
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The FX/S is already too heavy.
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As a "dirt bike" with one battery the weight quoted is in the 250's. It would be more an adventure or dual purpose at 289 pounds.
I'm curious if you can name one adventure bike at 289 lbs.
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As a "dirt bike" with one battery the weight quoted is in the 250's. It would be more an adventure or dual purpose at 289 pounds.
I'm curious if you can name one adventure bike at 289 lbs.
How about the Yamaha xt250 available in other markets with cush hub and luggage? South America perhaps elsewhere.
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That's a dual sport dirt bike that's street legal and its wet weight is 291.
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I've been operating under the assumption that the SR/F was intended to be 2020's model year bump, but was triggered early because of Harley's announcement of the LiveWire and Lightning's announcement of the Strike.
So I'd expect some pretty significant changes to the whole model line in 2020, EXCEPT for the SR/F.
That seems logical to me too. Why would Zero spend so much development time on an entirely new platform if they were not going to use it on the rest of their lineup in the future? Plus, this year's owners of the SR/F can be the beta-testers for the new model, before production ramps up and starts infiltrating into the S and DS style platforms. That way any bugs can be worked out before the complete 2020 model line is introduced.
I particularly noticed the significant increase of GVWR of the SR/F vs the S(R) -- to me that implied they're thinking of a sport-tourer (maybe also tourer as well) that can accommodate significant luggage and/or a passenger. Obviously that necessitates a fairing as well. Is the SR/F frame significantly larger physically?
And of course, they could also do a DS(R)/F Adventure-style bike -- much more likely IMO than an FX/F or FXS/F (a porky dirtbike or supermoto is a bit of a contradiction in terms, and mid- and fullsize Adventure bikes are where much of the sales action is these days).
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I've been operating under the assumption that the SR/F was intended to be 2020's model year bump, but was triggered early because of Harley's announcement of the LiveWire and Lightning's announcement of the Strike.
So I'd expect some pretty significant changes to the whole model line in 2020, EXCEPT for the SR/F.
That seems logical to me too. Why would Zero spend so much development time on an entirely new platform if they were not going to use it on the rest of their lineup in the future? Plus, this year's owners of the SR/F can be the beta-testers for the new model, before production ramps up and starts infiltrating into the S and DS style platforms. That way any bugs can be worked out before the complete 2020 model line is introduced.
I particularly noticed the significant increase of GVWR of the SR/F vs the S(R) -- to me that implied they're thinking of a sport-tourer (maybe also tourer as well) that can accommodate significant luggage and/or a passenger. Obviously that necessitates a fairing as well. Is the SR/F frame significantly larger physically?
And of course, they could also do a DS(R)/F Adventure-style bike -- much more likely IMO than an FX/F or FXS/F (a porky dirtbike or supermoto is a bit of a contradiction in terms, and mid- and fullsize Adventure bikes are where much of the sales action is these days).
The frame is wider and larger diameter (19mm tube for the main spars). The GVWR is not lost on me, nor the fact that the tail subframe is much better constructed and even unbolts from the center frame piece.
Because the frame is steel tubing, it’s easier to attach a fairing support by clamping.
I don’t know whether sport touring or adventure is their next move, but I’ll bet they’ll pick one. I’d prefer anything with a forward bracket detaching the cockpit and headlamp from the steering, because that enables a fairing much better than aftermarket construction.
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I've been operating under the assumption that the SR/F was intended to be 2020's model year bump, but was triggered early because of Harley's announcement of the LiveWire and Lightning's announcement of the Strike.
So I'd expect some pretty significant changes to the whole model line in 2020, EXCEPT for the SR/F.
That seems logical to me too. Why would Zero spend so much development time on an entirely new platform if they were not going to use it on the rest of their lineup in the future? Plus, this year's owners of the SR/F can be the beta-testers for the new model, before production ramps up and starts infiltrating into the S and DS style platforms. That way any bugs can be worked out before the complete 2020 model line is introduced.
I particularly noticed the significant increase of GVWR of the SR/F vs the S(R) -- to me that implied they're thinking of a sport-tourer (maybe also tourer as well) that can accommodate significant luggage and/or a passenger. Obviously that necessitates a fairing as well. Is the SR/F frame significantly larger physically?
And of course, they could also do a DS(R)/F Adventure-style bike -- much more likely IMO than an FX/F or FXS/F (a porky dirtbike or supermoto is a bit of a contradiction in terms, and mid- and fullsize Adventure bikes are where much of the sales action is these days).
The frame is wider and larger diameter (19mm tube for the main spars). The GVWR is not lost on me, nor the fact that the tail subframe is much better constructed and even unbolts from the center frame piece.
Because the frame is steel tubing, it’s easier to attach a fairing support by clamping.
I don’t know whether sport touring or adventure is their next move, but I’ll bet they’ll pick one. I’d prefer anything with a forward bracket detaching the cockpit and headlamp from the steering, because that enables a fairing much better than aftermarket construction.
My money is on an ADV model. That is what is hot and selling right now. One thing is for sure, Zero will go with whatever they believe will sell the most "units". ;)
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My money is on an ADV model. That is what is hot and selling right now. One thing is for sure, Zero will go with whatever they believe will sell the most "units". ;)
Zero did not expect the DSR to be a big seller, and they seem at least surprised at the demand for the SR/F. I think they don't have a confident way to assess where they should be in the market.
For example, they might make one of these "scrambler" models that I cannot see the appeal of. But I'm not in the market for a streetfighter, either. The SR/F does not excite me as a model at all, although I really like the platform. If I have to buy the SR/F, it'll be for the platform capabilities and once again I'll be working against the grain trying to turn a Zero into a touring-worthy machine.
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My money is on an ADV model. That is what is hot and selling right now. One thing is for sure, Zero will go with whatever they believe will sell the most "units". ;)
Zero did not expect the DSR to be a big seller, and they seem at least surprised at the demand for the SR/F. I think they don't have a confident way to assess where they should be in the market.
For example, they might make one of these "scrambler" models that I cannot see the appeal of. But I'm not in the market for a streetfighter, either. The SR/F does not excite me as a model at all, although I really like the platform. If I have to buy the SR/F, it'll be for the platform capabilities and once again I'll be working against the grain trying to turn a Zero into a touring-worthy machine.
But how can you design a "Scrambler" model without a high exhaust pipe? Now that would be a challenge for the Zero designers - whomever they are. ::)
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A scrambler is simply a retro-1960s-look standard with more-or-less minimalist components. The real scramblers back then also had knobbies, since they needed to go off-asphalt.
The entire concept makes no sense whatsoever for a company that (1) didn't exist back then and (2) makes BEV bikes.
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I imagine its tough knowing which model aesthetic to choose next at Zero. The market is all over the place right now.
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I imagine its tough knowing which model aesthetic to choose next at Zero. The market is all over the place right now.
I suspect it's really an issue of being resource-limited, as a small company.
I don't think there's a worthwhile model they can add at this point that doesn't require some kind of fairing (well, in theory, a Harley-esque cruiser, but I seriously doubt there'll be a siginficant number of buyers for it. It's a shrinking market segment, and I don't think it overlaps with people who like electrics).
It'll be interesting to see if the decision to retain 100V for the /F platform (anybody have a good name for it?) harms them in the short-to-medium range (probably more of an issue in Europe), as at this point, I don't see them launching a new higher-voltage platform for the next few years (unless sales explode,but that won't happen IMO unless at least 2-3 large motorcycle makers get fully onboard the electric wagon, and with actual motorcycles, not scooters.)
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I am not betting on Zero coming out with a factory fairing on a production model. I think designing, developing and manufacturing an integrated plastic fairing is more than they want to tackle. My money remains on an ADV bike, which does not require a fairing to meet that market's expectations.
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I had no idea fairings were the hard part of motorcycle design.
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I had no idea fairings were the hard part of motorcycle design.
They might require some expensive wind tunnel time to make sure that they are stable at all speeds and the production molds are also expensive.
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I had no idea fairings were the hard part of motorcycle design.
They might require some expensive wind tunnel time to make sure that they are stable at all speeds and the production molds are also expensive.
It also requires heavyweight computer modeling of air flows, which done by aerodynamics experts; Zero presumably doesn't have any on staff and doesn't want to hire them fulltime for a project or two, but surely they could cooperate with someone who does have the expertise -- I'm puzzled they haven't done that yet. Sure, the fairings would be expensive but it would (IMHO) expand the market significantly. Maybe they're waiting for 5-digit annual sales...
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I had no idea fairings were the hard part of motorcycle design.
They might require some expensive wind tunnel time to make sure that they are stable at all speeds and the production molds are also expensive.
It also requires heavyweight computer modeling of air flows, which done by aerodynamics experts; Zero presumably doesn't have any on staff and doesn't want to hire them fulltime for a project or two, but surely they could cooperate with someone who does have the expertise -- I'm puzzled they haven't done that yet. Sure, the fairings would be expensive but it would (IMHO) expand the market significantly. Maybe they're waiting for 5-digit annual sales...
If they ever see 5-digit sales, one of the Japanese motorcycle companies will be knocking on their door to either buy the business or some of their tech. Right now Honda is planning to enter the electric scooter market with a 50cc-class step-through within a couple of years, according to an article that I just read.
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I had no idea fairings were the hard part of motorcycle design.
They might require some expensive wind tunnel time to make sure that they are stable at all speeds and the production molds are also expensive.
It also requires heavyweight computer modeling of air flows, which done by aerodynamics experts; Zero presumably doesn't have any on staff and doesn't want to hire them fulltime for a project or two, but surely they could cooperate with someone who does have the expertise -- I'm puzzled they haven't done that yet. Sure, the fairings would be expensive but it would (IMHO) expand the market significantly. Maybe they're waiting for 5-digit annual sales...
If they ever see 5-digit sales, one of the Japanese motorcycle companies will be knocking on their door to either buy the business or some of their tech. Right now Honda is planning to enter the electric scooter market with a 50cc-class step-through within a couple of years, according to an article that I just read.
Yes, interesting to speculate whether the big brands might up having "buy rather than self-develop" approaches.
Anyway, Yamaha's apparently going to start sooner, with a swappable-battery scooter in Taiwan this summer (https://electrek.co/2019/06/10/yamaha-ec-05-electric-scooter-gogoro-batteries/) (it was co-developed with Gogoro). All the Big Four are part of a partnership aimed at reaching a standard for swappables; I wonder if it's something that might be suitable for e-motorcycles as well, though I suspect it might not be.
That said, I expect that at least a few of the top 10 makers have internal development projects going on, for basic prototypes, just to be ready if/when an electric revolution comes along. I can see ICE scooters being outlawed in some European cities, as has happened in China.
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Right now Honda is planning to enter the electric scooter market with a 50cc-class step-through within a couple of years, according to an article that I just read.
It's going to be a little sooner than that:
https://motocrossactionmag.com/first-video-of-the-honda-cr-e-shinden-all-electric-prototype-being-ridden-in-japan/?fbclid=IwAR2Hl2y4G7244lN5S_BOG1hNNNhtnyp0w7gSRJeY7rsAh-Rrt4EJZjaWwvs
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Right now Honda is planning to enter the electric scooter market with a 50cc-class step-through within a couple of years, according to an article that I just read.
It's going to be a little sooner than that:
https://motocrossactionmag.com/first-video-of-the-honda-cr-e-shinden-all-electric-prototype-being-ridden-in-japan/?fbclid=IwAR2Hl2y4G7244lN5S_BOG1hNNNhtnyp0w7gSRJeY7rsAh-Rrt4EJZjaWwvs
Prototypes are one thing, but actually putting an electric motorcycle into the consumer market is another. Right now the Japanese appear to have cold feet about selling anything but low-power electric scooters for short distance city transportation (perfect for congested Asian cities). I think they prefer to let the European manufacturers and start-ups, like Zero, take the risk. If the market ever takes off, then they will jump in, either with a home-grown EV, or a company that they bought into.
I also suspect that the Japanese will be keeping an eye on LiveWire sales. If they go down the tubes, like I suspect many of us believe will happen, their cold feet might turn to ice. ::)
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I don't care what fairing the OEM makes or doesn't, and I don't care what particular model they make or what style it has in particular. I care about overall capabilities and ride quality.
Regarding a fairing, I just want a cockpit that is fixed to the frame instead of way down at the head tube where I can't see it, and where it interferes with a fairing one might want to place over the bike. Hollywood Electrics' fairing makes the bike feel like a sport-touring model for that reason alone.
Zero could do that and slap a bikini fairing on it, and it would make aftermarket fairing fitment 80% easier than it is on the S and FX platforms.