ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: alko on March 25, 2019, 02:54:50 AM
-
I'll be looking very close at this bike as I may be trading my Zero for one. Price will certainly matter but is not the deciding factor. Mostly range, ergonomics and quick charging options.
BEWARE.! BIKE IS MADE IN CHINA.
https://www.cyclenews.com/2019/03/article/lightning-strike-prototype-review/
From this review though, I'm not as impressed as I was hoping. Delivery won't start till June.
-
Oooo. Was expecting a Street Fighter, not an electric CBR600. Interesting!
-
Lightning's whole thing is they are faired and have high top speed.
I think the Lightning Strike is pretty damn cool but if I was getting one I would keep my other electric bike. That way you're more likely to have a functioning ebike when one or the other has issues.
-
BEWARE.! BIKE IS MADE IN CHINA.
That's probably a wise decision. They don't have any manufacturing capacity (to speak of) that I'm aware of, and it comes cheaper and faster in China than just about anywhere. Trying to build that capacity here in the states would take as long as it's taken Zero.
As an EE, I know that it IS possible to source quality manufacturing in China -- hell, the iPhone is made there. I'm 100% sure there are good people in China that know how to produce great electric motorcycles affordably. But you really have to know what you're doing and who you're talking to. Whether or not Lightning is successful at navigating that maze remains to be seen.
-
Yeah don't be dumb about China. They have a space program and are capable of making some of the most precise shit in the world.
Also it's not possible to do mass production here like it is there, so good on Lightning for doing something smart.
-
I was surprised to see that the Lightning Strike uses a 150V power system. I expected something higher.
Speaking of manufacturing, I believe that most of Zero's parts are manufactured in China, including the motor, batteries, controller, frame, wheels and maybe even the Showa suspension. The bike is just assembled in Scotts Valley from these and other various components made in Asia. I don't even want to think what those assemblies would cost if they were made in the U.S., where they are not even available.
-
With a 150 volt system the DCFC will be CHAdeMO as CCS doesn’t go below 200 volts.
-
With a 150 volt system the DCFC will be CHAdeMO as CCS doesn’t go below 200 volts.
Of the 8 dc chargers at my local station, only one is a 50 kw CHAdeMO. Does that mean there will be a lot fewer of compatable chargers for the Strike?
-
It says there are 2 options. The cheap one is 150 volts and the high one is 300 volts.
I want to see this guy get an SR with a power tank AND and charge tank for $22k because he thinks you can.
Time to make a Lightning section on the forum. Because this isn't a 13+ Zero thread.
-
According to the article they have produced 40 of the LS-218 bikes in the last 7 years. Any evidence at all of happy Lightning owners?
-
According to the article they have produced 40 of the LS-218 bikes in the last 7 years. Any evidence at all of happy Lightning owners?
I never heard of any owners at all - period. You would think that at least Jay Leno would own one. Has anyone seen a video of him reviewing the LS-218? I would imagine that one or two of those claimed LS-218 owners would have commented on their rides sometime during the past 7 years. ???
And I agree that there should be a dedicated Lightning sub-forum - along with one for the Zero SR/F platform.
-
It took a lot of digging, I mean a lot, but I found the only video I remember of a LS218 going to a customer.
Richard, Jay Leno took one for a test ride and talked with Hatfield but I don't think he bought one. Gizmag did a very entertaining video review and was gushing about the torque. Translogic did one and though he liked it they showed footage of the bike shutting down mid ride and needing to be rebooted. The guy said it happened a few times so they took it back in. He felt it was a thermal issue but that was all he said about it. That was the last ride review video from any "media" that I know of.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29aQXRrROhU
-
Regarding the manufacturing in China, this is not necessarily something to be feared. China will manufacture to your specifications, i.e., if you want total crap, they'll build that, and if you want high quality, they can build that too. They can do both cheaper than we can in the US. Many of the "manufactured in China" quality issues stem from buying products manufactured in China by Chinese companies competing solely on price, but they are completely capable of manufacturing high end quality items that you specify and inspect.
-
Regarding the manufacturing in China, this is not necessarily something to be feared. China will manufacture to your specifications, i.e., if you want total crap, they'll build that, and if you want high quality, they can build that too. They can do both cheaper than we can in the US. Many of the "manufactured in China" quality issues stem from buying products manufactured in China by Chinese companies competing solely on price, but they are completely capable of manufacturing high end quality items that you specify and inspect.
Remembering the Chinese-made engines in the BMW C650 Maxi-scooters whose porous castings required complete engine replacements by BMW.
Or the euthanasia drugs found in Chinese-prepared pet foods...
-
Here are some comments from Lightning regarding the article linked to above. Seems very odd that the magazine would publish their story just before the official launch, knowing (but not explicitly stating) that the bike they rode was really nothing like what would be shipping: according to the company, the bike tested was really just a "mule" with the new drivetrain.
https://electrek.co/2019/03/25/lightning-strike-electric-motorcycle-specs-leaked/
So we'll have to wait a few days more to see what the Strike is ACTUALLY going to be like.
-
Regarding the manufacturing in China, this is not necessarily something to be feared. China will manufacture to your specifications, i.e., if you want total crap, they'll build that, and if you want high quality, they can build that too. They can do both cheaper than we can in the US. Many of the "manufactured in China" quality issues stem from buying products manufactured in China by Chinese companies competing solely on price, but they are completely capable of manufacturing high end quality items that you specify and inspect.
Remembering the Chinese-made engines in the BMW C650 Maxi-scooters whose porous castings required complete engine replacements by BMW.
Or the euthanasia drugs found in Chinese-prepared pet foods...
My daughter is the one and only customer service and complaint department for a company that buys a certain popular stainless steel product line made in China for the cheapest price they could get and no one performing QC. She calls their products "crap". ;)
-
Here is the old 2014 Jay Leno interview and review of the lightning LS-218: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz1aTLBKIoQ
-
[
My daughter is the one and only customer service and complaint department for a company that buys a certain popular stainless steel product line made in China for the cheapest price they could get and no one performing QC. She calls their products "crap". ;)
* Product is cheapest available
* Product has no QC
* Product is crap
That could apply to a product made anywhere.
-
The claimed leaked specs are very impressive to me, but it would still be a very hard sell to me over a zero. Lighting has no dealer network as i can tell in america, and no community of owners that i can find. Even i they produce this bike it would be really tough for me to take it over a brand that has established itself like zero with actual dealers.
-
The claimed leaked specs are very impressive to me, but it would still be a very hard sell to me over a zero. Lighting has no dealer network as i can tell in america, and no community of owners that i can find. Even i they produce this bike it would be really tough for me to take it over a brand that has established itself like zero with actual dealers.
A big thing for me is the dc charging. I don't buy Zero reasoning for leaving off the sr/f. It's the future and harley, energica and Lightning all understand that.
Im looking forward to Thursday's launch date.
-
The claimed leaked specs are very impressive to me, but it would still be a very hard sell to me over a zero. Lighting has no dealer network as i can tell in america, and no community of owners that i can find. Even i they produce this bike it would be really tough for me to take it over a brand that has established itself like zero with actual dealers.
A big thing for me is the dc charging. I don't buy Zero reasoning for leaving off the sr/f. It's the future and harley, energica and Lightning all understand that.
Im looking forward to Thursday's launch date.
Im in the opposite camp here which seems to be a minority view. I much prefer 6kw L2 charging over DC fast charging. I would very rarely use DC but would use L2 very frequently.
-
The claimed leaked specs are very impressive to me, but it would still be a very hard sell to me over a zero. Lighting has no dealer network as i can tell in america, and no community of owners that i can find. Even i they produce this bike it would be really tough for me to take it over a brand that has established itself like zero with actual dealers.
A big thing for me is the dc charging. I don't buy Zero reasoning for leaving off the sr/f. It's the future and harley, energica and Lightning all understand that.
Im looking forward to Thursday's launch date.
Im in the opposite camp here which seems to be a minority view. I much prefer 6kw L2 charging over DC fast charging. I would very rarely use DC but would use L2 very frequently.
My opinion: There are far far more L2 charging stations than there are DC (L3) charging stations. By the way, I think the Livewire is just about the STUPIDEST thing I've ever seen with L3 and L1 ONLY (you can use L2, but it won't charge any faster than L1). If EVERY Harley dealership were to install L3 charging stations at their dealerships that may be useful, but right now it seems only a few of them will be.
By the time L3 becomes as widespread as L2 and practical enough to easily allow long trips, the L3-capable bike you bought today will be long past its battery life. Buy the bike that utilizes what is available NOW. Zero made the right choice. It is nice of Lightning to give you the option, BUT it remains to be seen if L3 is available in the base-level version of the Strike, or if it will be an extra-cost option. I'm still skeptical that EVERYTHING in that marketing release will be available in the base price version...
L3 also seems to be in its "Betamax vs. VHS" or "HDDVD vs Blu-Ray" phase right now. I'd rather the dust settles and ONE standard rules them all.
-
Jaime, I couldn’t agree with you more. When I bring up a map of the L3 chargers in the area, it is few and far between but L2 is everywhere. It may change in the future but who knows if by then there is not a even better standard. If Zero went with L3 on the SR/F instead of L2, it would have been a big negative for me. Being L2 is now a standard option on bike, it was one of the main reasons I went with the SR/F (that and traction control). The way I look at it, I will not be pulling into a charger on 0% or going over 90% being it is 1/2 hour just to go from 90-100. So the worse case I am looking is up to 2 hours of charging. That is a long lunch, some sight seeing or some shoppping. I can handle that. For the most part I will be charging at home and the rides will not require another charge. I have a level 2 charging station at home so I am good to go. If it was level 1 and 3 only, then I wouldn’t . I agree Jaime, what was Harley thinking. I wonder if they will change that before it goes into production. And I am very curious how much of the Lightning hype will be just that when they say what is included on the $12K standard edition.
So count me in as one of the people who is very glad Zero went with L2 charging.
-
After almost 10 years of riding electric motorcycles, I continue to be happy with L1, 120V, 12 amp, on-board charging. With my Power Tank providing a 50-mile radius range, I can get pretty much everywhere I want to go that I used to visit with my car and recharge overnight. For longer trips I use one of my ICE motorcycles. Plus, while there may be a relatively large number of L2 stations around, there is also an even larger number of electric cars coming on the market that want to hog the L2 stations. Whereas, 120V wall outlets are everywhere and they don't require a subscription or an expense approaching that of gasoline to recharge a vehicle at a private L2 station that makes a profit for its operator.
-
By July of this year, there will be about 500 Wal-Mart's with L3 chargers. All the Wal-Mart's within 100 miles from me already have them. Plus Harley will have L3 chargers at about 200 dealerships. It's coming a lot faster than y'all think. Get the Electrify America App to see which Wal-Mart's.
Btw Gary, you make it sound like a bike can only have L2 or L3, but that's not the case. The strike has all 3 levels.
-
By July of this year, there will be about 500 Wal-Mart's with L3 chargers. All the Wal-Mart's within 100 miles from me already have them. Plus Harley will have L3 chargers at about 200 dealerships. It's coming a lot faster than y'all think. Get the Electrify America App to see which Wal-Mart's.
Btw Gary, you make it sound like a bike can only have L2 or L3, but that's not the case. The strike has all 3 levels.
Unfortunately, the SF Bay Area hates Walmarts because they are nonunion. There is only one Walmart anywhere near me and it is located 40 miles away. Due to the layout of the store, I doubt they will be installing charging stations, but if they do, I am sure they will be ICE'ed as the store is very busy and their thrifty customers are not about to let a parking space go unoccupied. ::)
-
500 walmarts and some odd harley dealerships will have L3, OK.
Right now there are over 50K L2 stations in the USA. Zero knows this and they made the smart decision of making those stations usable for a bike that people want to ride in the real world starting basically now.
-
500 walmarts and some odd harley dealerships will have L3, OK.
Right now there are over 50K L2 stations in the USA. Zero knows this and they made the smart decision of making those stations usable for a bike that people want to ride in the real world starting basically now.
And that doesn't include the L2 stations people have installed in their own garages for the growing number of electric cars out there.
-
The only reason I don't have a Zero in my garage right now is because the lack of DC fast charging. It boggles my mind how Zero keeps ignoring the DCFC train. I thought the SR/F would be usher in a new battery design with a higher voltage with the hope that it would trickle down to the S / DS line.
If you had to pick either L2 or L3 then yes, its a no brainer that there are more L2 stations. But is that not the point of CCS? To have both. Sub-40min charge time would be a game changer.
-
Since I now own a 300-mile range EV, and it looks like the Alta ST will never be a reality, this argument is no longer personally relevant, but I remember well my four years driving a 24 kWh Leaf. L3 charging that car was almost 8 times as fast as L2 charging it (30 minutes versus almost 4 hours) so I’d say one L3 charger is worth almost 8 L2 chargers. It can serve almost 8 times as many customers in the same amount of time.
Chademo is a dying standard, everywhere but Japan. Lots of new CCS chargers going in around Atlanta and they all seem to support both L2 and L3, at least the public pay charging stations do. Maybe businesses providing free charging to their customers and longer term parking lots like workplaces and airports will only offer L2. I think if it hasn’t already happened, soon L3 will be standard on most electric cars, but L2 will also still be standard for home charging. L1 is fine for home charging, L2 is fine for local charging, but L3 is a requirement for practical long distance travel.
-
Btw Gary, you make it sound like a bike can only have L2 or L3, but that's not the case. The strike has all 3 levels.
The Strike doesn't have anything because it doesn't exist yet other than on paper.
The Energicas have all 3, though.
-
Tomorrow's the day. Place your bets, ladies and gentlemen! :D
-
Tomorrow's the day. Place your bets, ladies and gentlemen! :D
I hope it's designed with sport touring in mind, otherwise I wont be interested at any price. My racing days are long over.