ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => Electric Motorcycle News => Topic started by: giacomo on January 17, 2019, 11:42:08 PM
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This year is going to be very interesting ....
http://lightningmotorcycle.com/lightning-strikes-twice/
Giacomo
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https://www.motorcycle.com/mini-features/the-new-lightning-strike-makes-big-promises-for-little-money.html
Why would anyone want a Livewire except for the "Harley Davidson" name??
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Looks great ! Do they have any dealer ?
This year is going to be very interesting ....
http://lightningmotorcycle.com/lightning-strikes-twice/
Giacomo
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Dang! Looks like I picked exactly the wrong time to buy my SR.
Well, best of luck to Lightning, I hope they deliver a great product and can shake up the market a bit!
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https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2019/january/lightning-electric-motorbike/
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This is certainly an exciting announcement, but a lot still needs to happen here.
IF they can actually deliver the bike and establish a dealer network
IF the bike delivers on these stats and the 150 mile range is mixed/highway range, not city.
IF they can actually deliver enough bikes to reach the demand for a machine that good for that price
Then they'll basically turn the industry on its head and both Zero and Harley will be hurting.
But when we still haven't even seen evidence of a single LS-218 in the wild, that's a lot of ifs and a very unproven company.
Hoping for the best for Lightning!
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Dang! Looks like I picked exactly the wrong time to buy my SR.
Well, best of luck to Lightning, I hope they deliver a great product and can shake up the market a bit!
Buying an electric motorcycle is much like buying a computer. The best deals will come after we're dead.
FWIW, I am very happy with my 2017 SR as is. Same with my little DS. Both have exceeded my expectations.
Perhaps those who have to rely on only one motorcycle will see it much differently, as that makes it a totally different game.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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The specs are very close to the Energica Ego except for the price. The Lightning Strike is $9567.00 cheaper than an Ego. Maybe if you took an Ego, stripped all of the tech off of it, swapped out all of the high end components for bargain basement version so all you had left was a big motor and a big battery you might get down to that price. It will be very interesting to see what they deliver.
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Anybody want to buy a slightly-used 2017 Zero SR with Charge Tank from me in Denver? Only been down once, because like an idiot, I leaned just a little too hard into a turn (spoiled by the wider rear tire on my EVA, forgot the Zero can't lean like it can).
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Once you get used to an Eva it is tough to go back to a SR. Mine has basically turned into a garage queen since getting the Eva.
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Here is Lightning's first attempt at a budget motorcycle. I can't recall what the price was at the time, but I think it was more that their latest model and had only a fraction of the range and performance.
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For me this has the potential to be useable for commuting while the energicas are not.
If this can get 80+ miles of highway range like my SR+ PT, I could commute on it. From what I hear of the rgb or Eva's range it's not even a contender for me.
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I will bet the range is based on SAE testing which means real world riding is about half that.
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I forgot to add that the photo of that red bike above was taken five years ago. Lightning seems to be good at designing motorcycles, but not so good when it comes to actually manufacturing and selling them. Maybe it will be different this time? ???
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I forgot to add that the photo of that red bike above was taken five years ago. Lightning seems to be good at designing motorcycles, but not so good when it comes to actually manufacturing and selling them. Maybe it will be different this time? ???
Do any dealers sell them? I've never seen any Lightnings anywhere.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Do any dealers sell them? I've never seen any Lightnings anywhere.
-Don- Auburn, CA
I do not believe you can get one except through the factory. I have only seen 1 in the wild but it was a test bike putting some miles down on the local moto roads (Alice's).
Wish them the best of luck, very interested to see what they come up with.
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> IF they can actually deliver enough bikes to reach the demand for a machine that good for that price
I suspect some of the features listed are not in the base price. Like the rapid charging.
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Once you get used to an Eva it is tough to go back to a SR. Mine has basically turned into a garage queen since getting the Eva.
You and me both!
I haven’t ridden the Zero since my lowside on it last year. And it was weeks, maybe a month or two, that it had been ignored before that.
I bet I can make enough from selling both Monsters and the SR to pay for the Strike with an upgrade or two. If that’s true, I’ll be downsizing my collection to the EVA and the Strike.
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This Lightning Strike Bike does sound too good to be true - I guess we'll see in March.
Meanwhile - don't you think that Zero MUST offer fast-DC charging to compete with Lightning, Energica and other EV bike manufacturers?
We'll see in February what the SR/F has to offer - I'm hoping that Zero offers CCS Fast-DC charging. Maybe that's what the 'F' in SR/F stands for :-)
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That was my first guess in the SR/F thread, I really hope they have addressed it, I’m still poking along with my 2013 and homegrown “fast charger†I get 6kw so zero has finally caught up with me, I won’t buy another until they get the fast CCS/chademo thing figured out
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oobflyer,
There is no doubt in my mind if Zero wants to be competitive they have to offer DCFC on their bikes. I have both a Zero SR and an Energica Eva 107. I have dual Elcon chargers and can charge at 6300 watts on the SR. I have made a few multi-day trips to western North Carolina on my SR and have made one multi-day trip to western North Carolina on my Eva 107. I will never make that trip on my SR again. It doesn't take long to get used to charging on CCS for 20-30 minutes and the idea of going back to 2 hour charging on the SR really sucks. There is a thread here on the Zero forum about the "300 Mile Club" for those who have ridden 300 miles in a day on their Zero. I understand why because it is a big deal and makes for a long day. When I rode the Blue Ridge Parkway last July on my Eva 107 I rode about 350 miles that day and only used CCS charging and it wasn't a big deal. Yes Energica is more expensive than a Zero. But then compare the price of a Zero with either Diginow chargers or dual Elcon chargers and that price difference quickly gets a lot smaller and you still won't get charging at 22kw. Charging at 22kw/70A you can add 50% SOC to an Energica in just under 14 minutes. I timed it 2 days ago. DCFC is what makes more trips practical on an electrical motorcycle compared to using your ICE bike and that is what will increase adoption of electric motorcycle. The frustrating part of all of this is Zero had a DCFC for their bikes. I had one on order for about 6 months and based on emails from Zero it would have worked well with the most common DCFCs in North Carolina. But there were a few issues with the models of DCFC near Zero. So instead of working through the bugs they canceled the system. Zero could have been far ahead of everyone but they couldn't see past the state of California. Sad.
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Right now I can see only ONE thing that would make electric vehicles as convenient for long trips as a gasoline or diesel engine, but it is highly unlikely at the moment.
A STANDARDIZED battery form-factor that can be easily swapped out by the user and battery replacement stations as pervasive as gas stations. You'd drive as far as you can and when your battery was signaling low, you'd pull into one of these stations, swap out your depleted battery, install a fully charged one, pay a nominal service fee, and continue on your way.
Just like many of us do now with propane tanks for our grills every summer.
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I'd have to posit that as long as a battery pack costs two orders of magnitude more than a propane bottle, I can't bet on seeing it as someone's business model. I definitely do see the consumer appeal though... "refueling" as a familiar step, unlike "recharging".
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Battery swapping doesn't really work in the US. The standardization, infrastructure, training, mindset etc required before it was even viable for a small number of people is astronomical. It is the most difficult solution to implement logistically. It also creates stagnation in battery tech. If we invest in a platform for swappable batteries, we're stuck with using that platform for a very long time or to reinvest in a new platform at considerable cost, neither of which are good options.
Just increasing the availability of charge stations and how many are faster charge stations is comparably easy and affordable, as new construction tends to include charging stations more and more often and adding them to existing places is common.
Charge times can and have naturally been getting better as the tech improves.
Battery swapping works really well in small markets with very specific products, basically like what some companies are doing with electric scooters in big cities overseas. But in the american market it's a non-starter.
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One caveat to caza's observation: Just because the form factor remains the same doesn't mean the technology would remain the same. Sticking to a specific form factor will not cause battery technology to stagnate. I would point to a D cell battery over the past few decades as a case in point...
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One caveat to caza's observation: Just because the form factor remains the same doesn't mean the technology would remain the same. Sticking to a specific form factor will not cause battery technology to stagnate. I would point to a D cell battery over the past few decades as a case in point...
Speaking of D-cells: I have two types of NiMH rechargeable D-cell batteries and I noticed that one was a lot heavier than the other. The light Energizer brand shows a "rated capacity" of 2500 mAh, while the much heavier Powerex brand (made by the Maha Energy Corp in Taiwan) is rated at 11,000 mAh. Apparently you can't tell a battery's capacity from its size and shape. ::)
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Thanks, Rich. You've confirmed my point. The real problem is right now we're in the early days of electric transport. Everybody in the game thinks that their way is the best, so they are all designing things THEIR way. Once the technology matures you'll see more standardization and swappable batteries will become possible.
As a case in point, years ago Michael Cszysz designed his electric racer with swappable batteries so they didn't have to wait between practice sessions for the installed batteries to recharge. Sadly, all of his ideas died with him and MotoCszysz is no more. :(
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I think of the swapping battery solution as the bad shopping cart solution. At some point your going to get the one with the flat wobbling wheel that locks up and throws you into the shelf. I don't want that old beat up degraded pack that a company is trying to squeeze a little more life from when I need to go 200 miles.
We were promised solid state batteries and I'm still waiting (tapping foot).
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We were promised solid state batteries and I'm still waiting (tapping foot).
What is a "solid state battery" and how do they compare to non-solid state?
sol·id-state adj. Electronics.
designating or pertaining to electronic devices, as transistors or crystals, that can control current without the use of moving parts, heated filaments, or vacuum gaps.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Well I was just "trying" to be funny. Right now it's in theory form mostly.
Liion has a flamable liquid electrolyte which has other bad issues.
It will expand and bust a cell if over charged, it loses capacity when near or below freezing. Charge cycles can cause dendrites which are like scars that cause resistance and more heat causing more dendrites.
A solid state battery would have a solid electrolyte which wouldn't burn, would be much less effected by temperature if at all, would have a much longer cycle life, and the weight savings of no system to hold a liquid.
Luke Workman talked about them years ago in an interview and it always stuck with me. He was saying, in theory, 10X capacity for the same size battery so a Zero could go 1000 miles.
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I forgot to add that the photo of that red bike above was taken five years ago. Lightning seems to be good at designing motorcycles, but not so good when it comes to actually manufacturing and selling them. Maybe it will be different this time? ???
In a 2017 interview, they said they bought a factory in 2017. Hopefully they're done designing and tooling it, and it's ready to pump out Strikes...
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Well I dug into Lightning's web page and it let the air out of my sail.
Like some had guessed, or saw, the 12k is a base strike with unknown specs. You can reserve one for $500 and they say it's 100% refundable up until an in writing confirm agreement is signed.
But...
The first and only option to begin with, not sure when the beginning ends, is a $10,000 deposit for the fully optioned carbon edition with full price unknown. I guess the full specs will be out in March but I'm now expecting an updated LS218 for top money or sadly maybe just Mission vapor.
Here's to hope. Cheers.
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I know they say they are refundable, but it's tough to imagine wanting to put a deposit down on the Lightning bikes before seeing what the Zero SR/F will be all about in February. Hopefully the details in the upcoming February 5th announcement will provide some clarity.
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I think its tough to imagine people putting a down payment on a bike they have no idea if its a sport bike, standard or whatever. Seems people are doing it though.
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I think its tough to imagine people putting a down payment on a bike they have no idea if its a sport bike, standard or whatever. Seems people are doing it though.
Hope springs eternal. ::)
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For the life of me I can't see how someone can put $10K deposit on a bike they have no idea what kind of bike it is, what it will look like, what are its specifications and what is the final price going to be. Refundable or not. I guess some people just want the newest things and have a lot of disposable income. Not me.
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I think its tough to imagine people putting a down payment on a bike they have no idea if its a sport bike, standard or whatever. Seems people are doing it though.
For DECADES that was Harley Davidson's business model and it worked... up until the recession at the end of the Bush administration anyway. People would line up at Harley dealerships and leave deposits on models not knowing anything about what they'd end up with. Those days are long gone, though (as Harley's stock performance lately has shown).
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For the life of me I can't see how someone can put $10K deposit on a bike they have no idea what kind of bike it is, what it will look like, what are its specifications and what is the final price going to be. Refundable or not. I guess some people just want the newest things and have a lot of disposable income. Not me.
Some people like to gamble.
-Don- Auburn, CA
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Also, that strategy worked out pretty well for the Tesla Model 3, too.
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Also, that strategy worked out pretty well for the Tesla Model 3, too.
But at least in that case you were dealing with a company that you knew something about. Who know much about Lightning, other than they just bought a new building, have made a few really fast motorcycles years ago, have no dealer and supply infrastructure and have posted a single self-promoting news article on the internet.
This brings to mind my second Electric Motorsport GPR-S that I tried to buy from that Oakland manufacturing company in the fall of 2009. When I went to their factory, with cash in hand to buy my second motorcycle from them, after having me sit in their office for hours cooling my heals and being told that the CEO was making a few minor adjustment to my bike before it could be sold, I was then told that they could not sell me the bike because they had lost their CA DMV retail license and that I would have to buy the bike from The Electric Green Store in Redwood City, located about 60 miles away. And when I did that, they discovered that the bike had a goofy VIN and would have to be re-registered all over again with the DMV.
Anyway, my point is that there is more to buying a new vehicle in California than just sending someone a $500 or $10,000 deposit and waiting for it to be delivered to your door. ::) That someone needs to be licensed as a retail motor vehicle dealership by the state. That was why Best Buy could not sell Brammo Enertias at their stores when they were first introduced late in 2009. :o
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What really concerns me is the lack of a dealership network. Hey its fine ordering a smartphone from a company and have it shipped directly to you. if it breaks, you ship it back for warranty work. What are you going to do with a 400+ lb bike? I hope Lightning has a plan to set up a network otherwise I can't see it really working. You can't bring an electric bike into any ICE motorcycle mechanic unless it is for tires or brakes. I have the same concern with Zero who does have a dealer network though it is somewhat sparse right now. My hope is that the Zero sales team is actively searching out more dealers but I am not sure how successful they will be until their bikes become more mainstream. That is the main draw with Harley. Man it seems like you can break down in almost anywhere and find a local Harley dealer close by. That is of course if they don't keep making bad decisions and eventually go out of business (which some are predicting already).
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What really concerns me is the lack of a dealership network. Hey its fine ordering a smartphone from a company and have it shipped directly to you. if it breaks, you ship it back for warranty work. What are you going to do with a 400+ lb bike? I hope Lightning has a plan to set up a network otherwise I can't see it really working. You can't bring an electric bike into any ICE motorcycle mechanic unless it is for tires or brakes. I have the same concern with Zero who does have a dealer network though it is somewhat sparse right now. My hope is that the Zero sales team is actively searching out more dealers but I am not sure how successful they will be until their bikes become more mainstream. That is the main draw with Harley. Man it seems like you can break down in almost anywhere and find a local Harley dealer close by. That is of course if they don't keep making bad decisions and eventually go out of business (which some are predicting already).
There's basically no bike, period (none that has been demonstrated beyond a prototype a few years ago), no indication of any actual production facility. That's before even mentioning dealer/service networks, parts depots, training mechanics etc. This is 100% vaporware until proven otherwise. Over here in order to set up shop as a maker or importer of vehicles, you have to deposit a huge bond with the MoT. If your vehicles don't get homologated, you can't provide the legally-required 7 years of parts support etc., you lose the bond.
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What really concerns me is the lack of a dealership network. Hey its fine ordering a smartphone from a company and have it shipped directly to you. if it breaks, you ship it back for warranty work. What are you going to do with a 400+ lb bike? I hope Lightning has a plan to set up a network otherwise I can't see it really working. You can't bring an electric bike into any ICE motorcycle mechanic unless it is for tires or brakes. I have the same concern with Zero who does have a dealer network though it is somewhat sparse right now. My hope is that the Zero sales team is actively searching out more dealers but I am not sure how successful they will be until their bikes become more mainstream. That is the main draw with Harley. Man it seems like you can break down in almost anywhere and find a local Harley dealer close by. That is of course if they don't keep making bad decisions and eventually go out of business (which some are predicting already).
There's basically no bike, period (none that has been demonstrated beyond a prototype a few years ago), no indication of any actual production facility. That's before even mentioning dealer/service networks, parts depots, training mechanics etc. This is 100% vaporware until proven otherwise. Over here in order to set up shop as a maker or importer of vehicles, you have to deposit a huge bond with the MoT. If your vehicles don't get homologated, you can't provide the legally-required 7 years of parts support etc., you lose the bond.
Well, Lightning did buy (or is leasing) a nice new HQ/factory building in San Jose, CA. ::)
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^^ I stand corrected on the production facility -- thanks Richard (-:
As for the rest of it, I'll believe they're actually making and/or selling bikes when there are independent reports of test rides, on more than one or three bikes.
Part of the problem is that they've done nothing that's externally visible apart from PR since 3.5 years ago. That's a long time in EV tech, and selling the LS-218 of back then isn't going to cut it... esp. not at US$40K.
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And as I always say, there is a lot more to selling a mass-produced vehicle to the general public than just designing it and making it move under its own power. :-\
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> > Also, that strategy worked out pretty well for the Tesla Model 3, too.
> But at least in that case you were dealing with a company that you knew something about. ...
And were quite open about their progress and challenges. Lightning is *not* that.
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This is a new snippet of info I think.https://electrek.co/2019/02/14/lightning-strike-electric-motorcycle-motor/
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A little more from CNET:
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/lightning-strike-electric-motorcycle-motor-teased/
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I got the email about reservations for the Strike yesterday, and put down $500. Now I just need to sell my Ducatis and my SR...
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Way to go ....
https://electrek.co/2019/03/06/lightning-strike-electric-motorcycle-capable-of-charging-on-level-1-2-3/
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Way to go ....
https://electrek.co/2019/03/06/lightning-strike-electric-motorcycle-capable-of-charging-on-level-1-2-3/
It is a mystery to me how Lightning can offer three levels of charging, a liquid-cooled motor and its advertised performance at a price of only $13,000. This I have got to see. They must be bankrolled by a large pot of money and are looking to make a big splash in the EV market. ???
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Way to go ....
https://electrek.co/2019/03/06/lightning-strike-electric-motorcycle-capable-of-charging-on-level-1-2-3/
It is a mystery to me how Lightning can offer three levels of charging, a liquid-cooled motor and its advertised performance at a price of only $13,000. This I have got to see. They must be bankrolled by a large pot of money and are looking to make a big splash in the EV market. ???
"As low as" price is probably quarter-battery and L1 charging. Everything else is probably extra.
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Way to go ....
https://electrek.co/2019/03/06/lightning-strike-electric-motorcycle-capable-of-charging-on-level-1-2-3/
It is a mystery to me how Lightning can offer three levels of charging, a liquid-cooled motor and its advertised performance at a price of only $13,000. This I have got to see. They must be bankrolled by a large pot of money and are looking to make a big splash in the EV market. ???
"As low as" price is probably quarter-battery and L1 charging. Everything else is probably extra.
I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case, but the "press" and customers putting down deposits might be somewhat unhappy if that happened.
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Anyone seen this? Is this LS-218 or Strike test rig? http://www.lerepairedesmotards.com/essais/motos/lightning-strike-prototype.php (http://www.lerepairedesmotards.com/essais/motos/lightning-strike-prototype.php)
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Anyone seen this? Is this LS-218 or Strike test rig? http://www.lerepairedesmotards.com/essais/motos/lightning-strike-prototype.php (http://www.lerepairedesmotards.com/essais/motos/lightning-strike-prototype.php)
I translated it a little bite at a time. It is a prototype the guy was riding around in California during those fires. It is dated early January 2019.
Like the Alta it has a 15,000 rpm motor and it looks to have single stage reduction which will really cause some complications for the left ankle if the footpeg is in a standard or even what is now called street fighter configuration. I guess a street fighter has the peg at the swingarm pivot. The base model will have half the voltage of the up grade one the way I read it. What I got below using Bing translate for the blocks between the pictures.
I just read the news today balance of trade with China is worse than ever. Trade war, world reserve currency, all sorts of stuff to contemplate on this one.
Electric Motorcycle Test Lightning Strike
The right price for electric sports
Induction motor of 150V, 96 CV and 95 Nm, aluminium monocoque frame, 206 kg, up to 190 km of autonomy and full in 40 MN
The last decade has seen an exponential increase in the availability, performance, autonomy and speed of recharging electric bikes, but also their price. The European leader of the BMW electrics thus tariffs its C-Evolution scooter from 15,400 euros, when the American Roadster Zero SR offers an entrance ticket to €18,500 and climbs up to €23,300 with the Power Tank and the fast charger. Finally, the upcoming Harley-Davidson Livewire is displayed on its side at €33,900. "Save the planet"-without going into the green controversy from end to end-will therefore cost you. Unless...
In the midst of all these electric bikes, not forgetting all the scooters and electric models that we try, there are actors who propose something else and this is the case of Lightning, with his sporty Strike. A Lightning Strike that pushes performance to the extreme while lowering the price to the extreme. The bike has not yet been officially announced that you will be offered an exclusive world trial. A long-time prepared and anticipated trial for this exclusivity. We tell you everything...
Richard Hatfield, CEO and founder of Lightning Motorcycle Corp., has been designing E-bikes for longer than anyone and has won more competition than any of his competitors, including winning a direct confrontation In front of sports with combustion engines. In the last five years, the Californian company has embarked on the construction of the LS-218 homologated
For the road and resting on the Lightning holding the world speed record for an electric motorcycle, model that until now has only been produced to 40 copies for orders from around the world, although the majority of the models have been sold to United states. Buyers had the choice between three 380v battery packs to power the 200 horsepower engine, each offering 160 to 240 km of autonomy for a rate between $38,888 and $46,888. If it delivers exceptional performance, the Lightning has so far remained in the standard in terms of price.
But Richard Hatfield wants to get out of the financial comfort zone and make electric bikes competitive in terms of price and performance in the face of thermals. We were amazed when we read the price announced for the Lightning without believing. But that is what he will do with the launch of the Lightning Strike, a kind of LS-218 reduced in configuration 600 supersport that we had the privilege of being able to test in California... On a machine that's still in development. So this is the prototype we're talking about
Discovery
Like the LS-218, the Lightning Strike always delivers exceptional performance for an electric without counting its price of $12,988 (excluding taxes) for the basic model. This is for the version that makes just under half the power of the LS-218 with 96 horsepower at 15,000 RPM delivered by a three-phase, liquid-cooled 150V induction motor entirely made by Lightning. A power that it is possible to raise to 120 horses with the model of 300V whose price will be announced soon.
Both versions offer a constant torque of 95 Nm available from the beginning and are powered by Lightning packs incorporating Lithium-ion cells with a temperature management system and collecting data in real time to know The state of charge and wear of each polymer cell. It is also this battery management that is almost more important than the battery itself, especially to ensure its longevity.
The Strike boasts an autonomy of 190 km with its 18 kWh battery in urban traffic and from 120 to 140 km on motorway. The designer insists that it only takes 40 minutes to make 90% of the full. And it's also the electric brake, the cooldown in order to be able to make the kilometer in one day, impossible thing if it always takes 8h as is often the case to recharge the battery entirely.
The weight on, with all coolant, is announced for 206 kg, 20 less than the LS-218, with a distribution at 52/48% and a wheelbase of 1,420 mm. And yes, Hatfield had to pay a fee to Harley-Davidson for the use of the name Lightning Strike which was registered in the name of the defunct Buell brand. "This is more than I wanted to pay, but not as much as I dreaded! "
This price of $12,988 for the Strike corresponds perfectly to the rates of the 600 supersports since in comparison, the Yamaha YZF-R6 is trading it at $12,199 in the United States. So how has Lightning managed to get this price so low by producing what is presented as the equivalent of the Tesla Model 3 on 2-wheeler? According to the boss, this sale price of the Strike is quite tenable because of the complete restructuring of the company, especially with the open of two new factories of 1,850 m² each. The first is located in the heart of Silicon Valley, California, a few kilometers from the Apple Campus of Cupertino and 5 times larger than the one where the LS-218 project was initiated. The second is in China, in the town of Quzhou, 400 km south of Shanghai and close to the factories of QJ Benelli, KTM-CFMoto and Zhongneng, the new owner of Moto Morini.
The American site will be kept to develop the technologies while the majority of the parts will be produced in China. Part of the bikes will be assembled in the United States to be distributed while production destined for Asian markets will be in China. Lightning will apply the same strategy as Apple.
The definitive Strike will be unveiled in March with a production which should be made by June, in particular to provide all pre-orders already registered.
The Strike chassis was machined in China using highly technological machines, including the magnificent aluminium swing arm.
I have not been allowed to remove the casing of the LS-218 adapted to this bike yet more compact. The final result will be completely new and quite different from the lines drawn by Glynn Kerr on the LS-218. No chance therefore to observe the battery and electrical equipment inside let alone photograph them. Until the bike is officially unveiled, we can already say that the Strike rests essentially on an aluminium shell incorporating the batteries and serving as a frame.
The fully adjustable Öhlins suspension of the prototype will only be available on the high-end version and its price will be adapted accordingly. The much more economical base model will be based on a Showa suspension. With regard to the Brembo monoblock braking system directly taken from the LS-218, Hatfield is contemplating keeping it even on the basic version.
I also hope that there will be a whole range of driving modes for the serial Strike. With its RBW accelerator, it should at least have a rain mode, a road mode and, hopefully, a sporty mapping
In the Saddle
Straddling the Strike immediately reveals a more comfortable, rational and welcoming driving position than on the LS-218 that I have already tried, especially regarding the width of the front part of the saddle and the frame underneath. On the biggest bike, it was not uncomfortable, but the small bikers had difficulty to put their feet on the ground, or even to lay one without having to lean the bike. With the Strike this is no longer a problem, because by reducing his bike to scale 7/8, Lightning produced a more inviting motorcycle, even if at 813 mm, the saddle height has not changed.
However, the saddle is too tilted and it is difficult not to slide to the back of the false tank wrapping the batteries. The wristbands are also too flat (to avoid rubbing on the LS-218 fascia) and it is more difficult to pull back on the wrists. In any case they must be backed up, which will de facto limit the risk of slipping to the reservoir.
To end the criticism of the ergonomics of the Strike, the footrests are placed too high, even with the excellent grip offered by the Pirelli Diablo Supercorna mounted on forged aluminium rims. It is to be expected to see the series model to barter its supercorna for less expensive, but also less athletic, Angel GT. With my eighty meter, my legs are a bit cramped on the Strike, which not only interferes with the comfort level, but also limits the hips on the bike in the curves of Glendora. This also results in more difficulty in reaching the front brake lever, so I mostly content myself with the rear pedal, in its usual place, rather than the left lever to slow the Strike.
These critics are above all suggestions while the bike is still in the prototype stage. Similarly, there is no need to comment on the brakes and suspensions when they should not be on the series model. But Lightning will have to reconsider the geometry of the seat/handlebar/footrest triangle, which they seem willing to do for discussion with them.
Dynamic test
Four years ago I had the opportunity to ride on the mythical curves of Mulholland Highway on the handlebars of the LS-218. The opportunity to become today the first unsalaried biker of the company to fly the prototype Strike, however, will not be able to remake itself there because of the recent devastating fires. In doing so, it is the direction of the east towards Glendora, another place of concentration of motorcyclists in the area of Los Angeles, which we take. The laces and curves of these roads will be the perfect terrain to test this bike which, even raw and without its finishes, did not disappoint us.
At this level of development, the Strike prototype was based on the architecture of the LS-218, essentially retaking the cycle part of the Superbike starting with the brakes and suspensions. This is what led Hatfield to insist on covering the motorcycle with tape for the "camouflage", although it now seems to say "I'm a prototype, take a picture!". Fears related to fire disturbances will fortunately have left traffic off the road on this sunny winter Friday, so that in 5 hours of taxiing I have only crossed 17 cars and motorcycles, no photo or post on social networks not coming Thus disrupting the joy of Hatfield.
Driving the prototype of the Strike also made me happy, although there are inevitably many improvement points, mainly on the ergonomics of the bike. However, this model largely based on the LS-218 has ample time to be corrected by Lightning prior to the launch of the final production.
If the cycle part still requires adjustments, the engine of the Strike is already perfect in the state. After starting the bike, you have to stand ready for the traditional acceleration arm puller of electric bikes in general and Lightning in particular, so hang tight. But really good! The acceleration is not as monstrous as on the LS-218, but thanks to the instantaneousness of the torque, the bike responds as soon as one opens a little gas (way of speaking). It remains impressive and far superior on this point to most other sports motorcycles, regardless of their capacity. OK, the peak speed is also not as high as the LS, but it is not really the objective sought by this everyday electric motorcycle that marks a new start for Lightning, far from the absolute performance and more anchored in the real world; More accessible.
The Strike prototype thus offers an impressive acceleration coupled with a good low-speed dosage, especially at the end of a hairpin turn, with no abrupt traces in the middle of the turn as can be the case on some electric bikes.
The fact that the power and especially the torque extend to the "breaker" at 15,000 rpm so progressively and linearly, that there are no peaks in their deliverance that could cause a loss of adhesion of the rear Pirelli by a sudden arrival of Power as on a thermal Supersport, offers the possibility of more easily exploiting the performance of the Lightning engine. Thank you there, the way the ride-by-wire accelerator was mapped. If the shivering is ensured by opening the handle in large at any time, under "normal" rolling conditions the initial acceleration is less virulent than on other electric bikes and only happens once the bike is launched and rolls Around 50 km/h. A voluntary choice of the manufacturer who wants to propose a bike usable in town and on the road, not only on circuit.
Cycle part
If ergonomics is truly objectionable on several points, the geometry of the bike itself is devilishly effective. With its compactness, its accessibility and its engine twice as powerful, the Strike is much more agile than the heavy and voluminous LS-218, which shares the same steering geometry with a 24 ° hunting angle and a 105.3 mm wheel chase.
Brakes
Oh Yes, braking regenerative. It is this double function of an electric motorcycle, comparable to the motor brake of the thermals which also allows to recharge the batteries and thus improve the autonomy. On the prototype of the Strike it is set too strong. So it's hard to keep your speed in a curve without accelerating. At low speed, you have to be careful, because the bike slows down so abruptly that it is approaching instability. At the moment, this regenerative brake can only be adjusted from the Hatfield computer, but it is an indispensable feature on the bike, as BMW allows with its C-Evolution, or even what exists on the Lightning on the LS-218. This should be possible on the final model.
Nevertheless, this allowed me to attack the Glendoras in a less aggressive approach by using virtually no brakes in the climbs, only by releasing the accelerator and slightly braking from the rear. The Brembo brakes do their job perfectly to slow the Strike at high speed in combination with the regenerative brake, although they will necessarily have to be accompanied by an ABS for Europe. And that will be the case.
Conclusion
The Lightning Strike has the potential to change the deal on the electric motorcycle market. More performance for less euros is a potentially winning formula and Richard Hatfield deserves immense recognition for his creation, both for his long-term business vision and for engineering already rewarded on the circuit. I look forward to tasting the final version of the Lightning Strike which will mark the new generation of electric bikes where performance and charm combine with the concern of the fair price. A final price that I hope will not suffer in Europe too many taxes that often explain a final increase between the US price and the French price.
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^^
Very interesting! Thanks, Fran K.
This is the first time I've seen a reference to Lightning's having already sold more than single bike ever -- I hope that's indeed true.
It also contains a bunch of relevant details... While a strategy of making parts in China yourself & assembling them in the US might be helpful to achieve a lower price, I'm still a bit skeptical -- I don't see such a strategy working without fairly large scale manufacturing, which requires a couple of years of a lot of sales before it can be achieved, or a huge investment right-off-the-bat (has any such investment been announced by anyone?)
Lots of sales also require a large dealer & support network, which also takes time to get up and running.
The range numbers given sound reasonable for a 18kWh battery, maybe the weight as well; no word about active battery cooling which sounds a pretty important issue to me, both for charging & riding.
Let's hope they can pull this off... If they do, it might finally get one of the manufacturers to dip their toes and announce a commercial electric model.
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Let's hope they can pull this off... If they do, it might finally get one of the manufacturers to dip their toes and announce a commercial electric model.
There is this little company in the USA called "Harley Davidson." I know they aren't very well known but perhaps you may have heard of them at some point?
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That was quite a review. Thanks for posting the translation, Frank. But my first thought is: What are 18kWh worth of lithium batteries going for nowadays? ??? And how does that cost fit into a $13K motorcycle price? I just don't get the economics of the vehicle price. ???
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Average is around $205 USD per Kwh
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I'm so torn on this bike. All past actions say BS but I'd like to believe.
Just to compare to the LS218 which is accepting "reservations" by the way. It comes with a 12kWh or 15kWh or 20kWh battery option.
The 12kWh is $38,888 while the 20kWh is $46,888.
There was either a video or article showing a LS218 under a small electric scooter/ 250 style sport bike company from China's show tent.
For the life of me I can't find it again. That seems to be the only way he could be offering anything that cheap. Of course if he can get his parts and batteries that much cheaper now then why hasn't the price and availability of the LS218 changed?
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Let's hope they can pull this off... If they do, it might finally get one of the manufacturers to dip their toes and announce a commercial electric model.
There is this little company in the USA called "Harley Davidson." I know they aren't very well known but perhaps you may have heard of them at some point?
H-D haven't given the full specs yet (in particular, motor kW, torque, battery capacity & bike weight), but some interpolation/extrapolation from other models seems to indicate a 12-15kWh bottom-end battery. We'll see, but the announced price makes it a non-credible effort, especially together with weird talk about drawing a younger generation of urban commuting riders in.
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Oh, they're DEFINITELY targeting younger riders now:
https://electrek.co/2019/03/06/harley-davidson-kids-electric-bike/
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I'm so torn on this bike. All past actions say BS but I'd like to believe.
Just to compare to the LS218 which is accepting "reservations" by the way. It comes with a 12kWh or 15kWh or 20kWh battery option.
The 12kWh is $38,888 while the 20kWh is $46,888.
There was either a video or article showing a LS218 under a small electric scooter/ 250 style sport bike company from China's show tent.
For the life of me I can't find it again. That seems to be the only way he could be offering anything that cheap. Of course if he can get his parts and batteries that much cheaper now then why hasn't the price and availability of the LS218 changed?
The difference of $8K for an additional 8kWh worth of batteries would imply to me that Lightning is charging $1000 for each addition kWh of batteries. That would mean that one of their bikes with an 18kWh battery pack should cost $18K just for the batteries. So you can see my confusion regarding the low price of the Strike. ???
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My hypothesis for a low price to capacity entry point is that the Strike may involve some special / partnership deal for batteries with a larger manufacturer.
This would be unprecedented AFAICT for motorcycle-compatible power densities, but it's been unclear what Hatfield's been up to for a few years so I can't help entertain the possibility.
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Well a 500 mile range was the goal in Feb 2017. It's things like this that hurt my faith that they can make anything close to what they claim any time soon.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/lightning-motorcycles-working-electric-bike-004042672.html
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Oh, they're DEFINITELY targeting younger riders now:
https://electrek.co/2019/03/06/harley-davidson-kids-electric-bike/
Eight year olds should NEVER be allowed to ride a Livewire! ;)
(unless it's on private property or a closed track ;))
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Well a 500 mile range was the goal in Feb 2017. It's things like this that hurt my faith that they can make anything close to what they claim any time soon.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/lightning-motorcycles-working-electric-bike-004042672.html
If Lightning markets an electric motorcycle that weighs less than 600 pounds and can travel 500 miles on a single charge, I'll buy one. But I am not going to hold my breath until that happens and I will let someone else be the beta-test customer first. ;)
And speaking about Lightning and their Strike model (again): Why is it that we haven't heard anything about retail outlets, distribution plans, warranty, service, parts availability and the like. My experience with Electric Motorsport is that these things are at least as important to vehicle customers as the specifications, price, performance and reliability of the vehicle itself. ???
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Oh I agree Richard, that's what has me so torn. The website says "Free Shipping" so I think that is the sum total of a distribution plan.
I mean they win Pike's Peak and your like wow this guy's got it all figured out. Then only a handful of sales that I know of, this pie in the sky 500 mile range goal and a H2R beating top speed run that was spinning up the rear wheel at the salt flats and then, nothing else ever said about it.
Now being vague about what the 12k bike has and about what the Carbon bike costs.
We'll see, I hope he proves my scepticism wrong.
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Over the years I've learned: If something sounds too good to be true, it usually is.
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No updates? No teasers? March is almost gone..
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No updates? No teasers? March is almost gone..
About what I expected. :(
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"March is almost gone" might be a bit of an overstatement with 2 weeks left, but I agree that it's time for some more information on these bikes! Are they real, or just more vaporware?
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This is the start of the last week of March so if Lightning is going to be true to their word we should get the details on the Strike in a few days.
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This is the start of the last week of March so if Lightning is going to be true to their word we should get the details on the Strike in a few days.
My thoughts exactly. They certainly hyped this more than they did their "500 mile bike" of a couple of years ago. I don't think that ever materialized...
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I must say that I have always wondered what Lightning's business plan is - other than occasional media hype. ::)
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More news...https://electrek.co/2019/03/24/lightning-strike-electric-motorcycle-expect/
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Here seems like what is the first review and specs (which could change with the official launch), not sure how true this is or not:
https://www.cyclenews.com/2019/03/article/lightning-strike-prototype-review/
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Here seems like what is the first review and specs (which could change with the official launch), not sure how true this is or not:
https://www.cyclenews.com/2019/03/article/lightning-strike-prototype-review/
Thanks for the link, it looks like it's real, can't wait for the official Thursday reveal!
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Please note that thing is a test mule based on the LS-218. The only thing from the Strike is the motor and battery system; everything else is LS-218. The production Strike apparently won't look remotely like that thing.
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I get that they want to get reviews out as quickly as possible and we are all desperate to read them, but that "Strike" that was reviewed was not even close to being done and was a mishmash of an LS-218 and Strike, making the review basically useless for understanding the new models.
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I get that they want to get reviews out as quickly as possible and we are all desperate to read them, but that "Strike" that was reviewed was not even close to being done and was a mishmash of an LS-218 and Strike, making the review basically useless for understanding the new models.
This has to be one of the poorest reviews I’ve read. When I read it I never got the impression that only the power train was from the Strike and all else was the LS-218. Why even camouflage it then? Who would do a review for the Strike on a bike like that? Also I find it really weird that they say the test ride happened last year. Either the site is REALLY slow in publishing their reviews or Lightning just gave them the okay to release it being they needed some hype. I mean here we are the end of March and everyone is still waiting on them. They might have needed something to reignite some excitement.
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Agreed that this is not a legitimate review of the entire product. But i believe its a good review of the powertrain. Though, i do not believe that it will be getting the same 18kW battery pack (charging math does not add up).
It's still some good information on how they're trying to be sustainable at that price, by relying on manufacturing in China.
Maybe a ~12kW pack is what we could be looking at and maybe share some components from the LS-218.
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Two more days to go. I think there will be a lot of unhappy people if they miss that date. ::)
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Well today's the day! Let's see if this actually happens...
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No matter how many times I hit refresh, all I seem to see are two headlights.....
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Yeah, how about that? When I woke up Monday morning, February 25th, the internet was already FLOODED with information about the Zero SR/F. Reviews, photos, press release from the company, EVERYTHING.
Not a PEEP out of Lightning and I've already been up for six hours here...
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Good luck to the people waiting on the Lightning Strike. I know myself the joys and pains of waiting for the reveal. I waited for almost a year to see what Harley was going to offer on the Livewire. I remember hearing the specs and my excitement dropped, then the price and it collapsed. Big disappointment. The it was SR/F time. Each new spec I read was something I hoped for and more. Then came the price and I was ready to preorder at that moment. I hope this is the way it turns out for you guys and the Strike doesn’t go the way of the Livewire.
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Good luck to the people waiting on the Lightning Strike. I know myself the joys and pains of waiting for the reveal. I waited for almost a year to see what Harley was going to offer on the Livewire. I remember hearing the specs and my excitement dropped, then the price and it collapsed. Big disappointment. The it was SR/F time. Each new spec I read was something I hoped for and more. Then came the price and I was ready to preorder at that moment. I hope this is the way it turns out for you guys and the Strike doesn’t go the way of the Livewire.
Make no mistake: I am perfectly happy with my 2018 Zero S. I've been burned enough in the past to know NEVER buy the first year production of a brand new model. That goes for the SR/F, and it ESPECIALLY goes for the Harley Livewire and the Lightning Strike.
At least Lightning has had SOME experience with building an electric motorcycle. Harley Davidson? I think I'd wait SEVERAL years before considering an electric bike from them.
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http://lightningmotorcycle.com/strike_launch/ (http://lightningmotorcycle.com/strike_launch/)
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Great specs ! Love it !
Zero still has the best supermoto of the market (FXS), but for the SR speed & price look better with Lightning...
http://lightningmotorcycle.com/strike_launch/
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That's a very, very impressive offering, especially for a first "real" production machine.
I predict that a lot of loyal Zero riders are going to seriously consider jumping ship for their next bike....including me. Zero doesn't offer a 20kWh battery, or L3 charging, at any price. Lightning's now doing it at essentially the same price as an SR/F. And that torque output is just stunning.
My 2014 SR is getting fairly long in the tooth, and if Lightning has figured out how to sell and support this bike, I may have to switch brands. This is a compelling machine.
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The carbon edition is priced much more competitively than I imagined. I didn't see any mention of ABS or traction control though and I didn't see wheel speed sensors in the pictures. Seems like a curious omission.
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I have to say, Lightning came out with a very impressive bike in the Strike. The carbon edition does have some very nice numbers. All in all a very good looking bike also. Though not my style, I can see spoke bikes enthusists very happy. The one thing I was waiting to see and maybe I missed is a dealer network. Who is going to service this bike. Yes they will ship it or you free but then are you on your own. Also will there be opportunities to test ride. I’m not cancelling my SR/F order but I have to give it to Lightening for what looks like a nice bike.
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Is it just my computer or do all of the images of the Strike look like very grainy computer images. I would have expected real photos of a real bike.
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So looking over the Strike page again, I have some concerns. It does seem very vague on a lot. When Zero announced the SR/F they talked about all the details and specifications in detail. I mean even down to the storage compartments was photographed and discussed. The specifications and information for the Strike are very simple. Still seems like a product in the final design phase. So I am wondering if they are doing the Harley thing and you will find out more as they get closer to shipping. I mean does it have ABS, traction control, etc? Also no mention of showrooms, dealerships, warranty. If this was a bike I would be interested in, I would be waiting to hear more info before I plopped down my money.
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A lot of analysis and comparison with other motorcycles in this article:
https://electrek.co/2019/03/28/lightning-strike-electric-motorcycle-launch/ (https://electrek.co/2019/03/28/lightning-strike-electric-motorcycle-launch/)
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If deliveries are really going to start in July, there's nothing unfinished about the design. Those first bikes are well into production right now.
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GaryArt1, You are spot on. I think Lightning is taking a page from H-D's play book. They gave out a few details but still a lot of unknowns. Makes you wonder if they have a functioning bike at this point or is everything is still in the design phase. Lightning sure talks a good game but Energica is the one to beat as far as electric sport bikes go. But right now everyone is going crazy over it because of the price. But there is so much we don't know so that in the end you have to decide how badly you want ABS, traction control and a lot of other features on an electric sport bike. There is also no indications of a dealer network so I wonder what Lightning's plan for service is going to be?
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Interesting write-up, and it does compare VERY well with the competition. However, as I pointed out in a different thread: I will NOT buy a "First Year Model" of anything; I've been burned too many times in the past. I'll let the brave few act as "Beta Testers" and wait (I'm in no hurry).
Also, Lightning has NO experience dealing with the mass market. Based on how well Zero seems to be handling their customer base, I'd be VERY concerned about how well Lightning will support theirs. Zero is improving, but it's taken them thirteen YEARS to get to the point they're at now (and there are still a lot of unhappy campers out there; just not as many as before thank God).
Lightning doesn't have an established dealer/service network. What am I supposed to do if I have a problem? Ship the bike back to the factory at my own expense?
Nah... it looks nice and bodes well for the future but... not yet. At least, not for me and my hard-earned dollars.
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Isn't it illegal to sell a bike nowadays without ABS? And with ABS, traction control is pretty much a no-brainer. I'd be very surprised if both of those things aren't on all three levels of the bike.
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Isn't it illegal to sell a bike nowadays without ABS? And with ABS, traction control is pretty much a no-brainer. I'd be very surprised if both of those things aren't on all three levels of the bike.
You can prove me wrong but I think ABS is not mandated yet in the US. I know in Europe it is. And as for traction control, keep in mind the SR/F is the only Zero offering it.
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Isn't it illegal to sell a bike nowadays without ABS? And with ABS, traction control is pretty much a no-brainer. I'd be very surprised if both of those things aren't on all three levels of the bike.
It's not illegal in the US but in Europe ABS is mandatory. I bought a 2019 motorcycle in the US without ABS.
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If deliveries are really going to start in July, there's nothing unfinished about the design. Those first bikes are well into production right now.
Exactly. So Why aren't we seeing more detailed specs of the bike?
Dimensions? Seat height?
GVWR / carrying capacity (from which it can be deduced whether it's suitable to base a 2-up or tourer on)?
Brake / suspension components, both vendor & adjustability ? ABS/TCS?
Not quite clear from the few pics, but looks like belt final drive?
Performance numbers? Including _sustained_ performance -- is the battery liquid-cooled, not just the motor?
Luggage options, if any?
And of course, the mundane:
How to buy?
How will service / warranty will be handled? Some countries have strict requirements for this (in mine, the importer needs to post a fairly large bond to guarantee availability of spare parts for 7 years).
Warranty, drivetrain & otherwise?
The given specs sound a bit too good to be true... The Carbon edition 10lbs less weight than the SR/F, but with 5kWh more, a fairing and CCS DC charger.
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Considering the cost of the specified components on the Strike and especially the batteries, I just can't figure out how they can sell the Strike and make a profit. ??? Plus, I really wonder what type of batteries Lightning is using in the Strike. To me, it just doesn't look like there is enough room on the bike to install 20kWh worth of batteries in the chassis. And then there is the weight difference between battery upgrades as mentioned in the article. ??? I wonder if they are using the type of lithium batteries used by the drone crowd?
Also, the video included in the electrek is kind of lame. It really doesn't show any closeups of the Strike and to me it looked like the rider never exceeded 50 mph. I found the entire 3-minute introductory video pretty much useless.
The other thing that crosses my mind is recalling the original Brammo Empulse 10.0 introduction. They took reservations (like mine) when the bike was originally announced. Supposedly, they received over 1000 reservations for that model, but then Brammo decided to redesign it to accommodate a 6-speed transmission and didn't deliver the revised Empulse until two years later. By that time, I had given up and decided to purchase a 2012 Zero S, which finally got me moving, electrically-speaking. ;)
Returning to the Strike for a moment: I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Lightning is collecting orders and deposits before they actually start manufacturing the bikes, so as to gauge the amount of resources and money needed to begin production of customers' bikes. This entire process just seems kind of weird to me - especially when there is no mention of retail outlets and an established distribution, service and parts system. In the case of the H-D Livewire, you got that information before you even received the complete specs and delivery date for the bike. ::)
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Considering the cost of the specified components on the Strike and especially the batteries, I just can't figure out how they can sell the Strike and make a profit. ???
Yup. According to the Electrek link above (not that they're a reliable source, or knowledgeable about motorcycles), the Carbon edition includes Brembo & Öhlins components... So those, and an additional 5kWh, and carbon-fiber body panels, and both the 6.6kW AC and CCS DC chargers for $20K ($3K above the midrange version) seems like an unbelievable deal.
Plus, I really wonder what type of batteries Lightning is using in the Strike. To me, it just doesn't look like there is enough room on the bike to install 20kWh worth of batteries in the chassis.
Agreed. And no mention of battery cooling. If they have a liquid coolant loop system for the motor, it would be odd if that system isn't also used to cool the battery.
Returning to the Strike for a moment: I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Lightning is collecting orders and deposits before they actually start manufacturing the bikes, so as to gauge the amount of resources and money needed to begin production of customers' bikes. This entire process just seems kind of weird to me - especially when there is no mention of retail outlets and an established distribution, service and parts system.
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My first reaction was "Hmm... I must have missed the announcement of the investor who just gave them $300M to go into production." Even if they only build a bike once they have a specific prepaid order for it (not a business model that really works for vehicles in the US), they're still going to need demo bikes.
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Even if they only build a bike once they have a specific prepaid order for it (not a business model that really works for vehicles in the US), they're still going to need demo bikes.
I am guessing you don't need demo bikes if you have no dealers or showrooms to put them in. ;) Seriously I have trouble ordering a item unseen from the internet let alone a motorcycle. Now saying that I must admit that I too ordered the SR/F site unseen. But at least in that case I test rode every major model Zero had, settled on the SR, talked with my dealer in detail who was at the reveal and had a comprehensive list of specs from Zero to go on. Taking a chance yes but it is an educated one. I wouldn't feel as comfortable with the information out on the Strike especially from a company that delivered what about 40 production bikes. That is too much a chance. I hope Lightning makes good. Competition is always good. Maybe Zero will keep the price of the power pack down in the fall to compete even stronger.
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I too wonder how they can sell these bikes at these prices, provide support, and provide warranty service while remaining solvent. On the other hand they appear to be sort of following the Tesla model. No dealers (no profit sharing), limited number of configurations, and order straight from the manufacturer. Tesla also does all the paperwork online, but that takes knowing how the vehicle registration and tag works in each state. Somehow I doubt Lightning is that sophisticated. Also Tesla has delivery and service centers. Maybe the Lightning customer has to do some assembly and his own registration and tag. Or for an extra fee a local contractor does all that.
Lightning has also not revealed any warranty info that I’ve seen.
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I bought my Tesla Model 3 with nothing more than two minutes to sit in one. Most early reservation holders did the same, or less. The web and social media have really changed things.
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There is no question that direct sales works for Tesla. But it didn't work for Zero and that is why Zero now has a dealer network.
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This is becoming more fun than I thought it would be.
I agree its totally possible the comments about it not being ready could be 100% true.
it is also very possible that Lightening is following a business model.... And these guys have balls so I am rooting for them
I was so disappointed in SR/F ... I wanted Zero to come out swinging after all that hype.
But at the end of day the guy that wishes he could just ride motorcycles all day is seeing how the evolution is going.
When the Volt came out they took a huge loss and it changed the game. Chevy money betting on the long term.
Im looking forward riding a bike that is safer easier and more cost effective that lets me hear the ocean, smell the air, ride next to cars that are on auto pilot so th drivers can text.... Im going to be riding and electric bike around this planet sooner because of it. Eating steak. That doesn't grow in fields with exhaust running through them 24 hours a day.
Lighting I hope Honda or BMW is behind you, Dell or Apple would be fine too.
Zero I really hope you have something else coming I'm holding out on an upgrade to mine because its starting to not look like a good bet.
This is going to be a blast.
Thank you to all the bad asses working late on your dream. Because you see how much fun ridding can be and you are making it happen.
THANK YOU.
(Please don't be another Beull/EBR ... Too many people that love ridding lost so much money.)
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I agree its totally possible the comments about it not being ready could be 100% true.
it is also very possible that Lightening is following a business model.... And these guys have balls so I am rooting for them
They've already got 20,000 sqft facilities outfitted both here and in China, so obviously there's some money in the operation. They have been VERY quiet about where it's coming from, however, and asking for 50% down isn't a good sign. Definitely smells like the company is cash hungry.
But at the end of day the guy that wishes he could just ride motorcycles all day is seeing how the evolution is going.
With the high-end Lightning (if it is as advertised, with 20kWh battery and 35-minute recharge time), I'm there. We're basically talking about two hours riding, a half hour charging. That's about as much as I can sit on a motorcycle long-term anyhow.
Lighting I hope Honda or BMW is behind you, Dell or Apple would be fine too.
We do know Apple is looking to get their....um...feet wet in the EV field. This seems like it would be an excellent first step. Apple has nothing but money and Lightning has nothing but product.
This is going to be a blast.
.
.
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(Please don't be another Beull/EBR ... Too many people that love ridding lost so much money.)
Amen, brother. If this really happens, it could actually be the dawn of a robust electric motorcycle community. Two strong competitors offering really good bikes at attainable prices. It's kind of like being a car fan in the early 1900's.
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My thought is that Lightning may be backed and funded by a large Chinese manufacturer as a way to get their products into "first world" markets without being too obvious. ??? I might also add that Lightning had better obtain a retail vehicle license from various state DMV offices before selling them directly to customers. Not doing that got both Brammo (in the case of Best Buy sales) and Electric Motorsport into trouble and both quickly decided to sell via established motorcycle retail outlets.
Not to say it can't be done, as CSC Motorcycles does direct-to-your-door motorcycle internet sales, but then they are selling products that most existing motorcycle shops can service and have worked out arrangements for them to do so if necessary.
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Richard did you see the Electrek video in the new Lightning section? The bike seems to be Chinese sized as well. Maybe the guy is 6'8 but he makes that bike look like a ninja 250. It looks like he can't even lay down and go aero without hitting his chin on the windscreen.
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Richard did you see the Electrek video in the new Lightning section? The bike seems to be Chinese sized as well. Maybe the guy is 6'8 but he makes that bike look like a ninja 250. It looks like he can't even lay down and go aero without hitting his chin on the windscreen.
I did watch the video and it didn't take long to become bored. What exactly were they trying to show in that 3 minutes of slowly riding along a lonely ranch back road, while filming from a drone flying 500 feet in the air - along with a few shots of the front of the bike? How about a video showing a walk-around of the Strike with commentary regarding its features and design? ???
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(apologies for quoting myself)
So, it's now two months since the unveiling.
AFAICS, there's been zero new info on Lightning's website or elsewhere on the the points below -- specs, how-to-buy, warranty, servicing.
Ditto for the apparently-conflicting info in the PR. Also no published first-ride reviews of prototypes, or (AFAIK) sightings in the wild. Only a couple showing up at a show in Half Moon Bay at the beginning of the month.
For a bike which is supposed to start deliveries 2 months from now, this is very odd.
If deliveries are really going to start in July, there's nothing unfinished about the design. Those first bikes are well into production right now.
Exactly. So Why aren't we seeing more detailed specs of the bike?
Dimensions? Seat height?
GVWR / carrying capacity (from which it can be deduced whether it's suitable to base a 2-up or tourer on)?
Brake / suspension components, both vendor & adjustability ? ABS/TCS?
Not quite clear from the few pics, but looks like belt final drive?
Performance numbers? Including _sustained_ performance -- is the battery liquid-cooled, not just the motor?
Luggage options, if any?
And of course, the mundane:
How to buy?
How will service / warranty will be handled? Some countries have strict requirements for this (in mine, the importer needs to post a fairly large bond to guarantee availability of spare parts for 7 years).
Warranty, drivetrain & otherwise?
The given specs sound a bit too good to be true... The Carbon edition 10lbs less weight than the SR/F, but with 5kWh more, a fairing and CCS DC charger.
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I suspect that Lightning's business plan (assuming that they have one) is not very well thought out. ::)
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I asked as nicely as I could on their YT channel and got nothing.
I did see Richard Hatfield himself chimed in on the Zero owners FB page saying again that bikes will go out in July.
We'll see.
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I did see Richard Hatfield himself chimed in on the Zero owners FB page saying again that bikes will go out in July.
Here's the comment in question:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/zmcowners/permalink/2195372883865241/?comment_id=2195944460474750
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Lightning is going down the same path with the Strike that they did with the LS-218. The LS-218 has been around for years but there is still very little information about it out there. Very few mentions in the motorcycle press. Not much information on the Lightning web site either. Unless Lightning hires a few people who know how to market motorcycles the Strike is going to be a big fail.
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Plus, Trump's 25% tariff on Chinese-manufactured products is not going to help their sales either.